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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can't stop arguing

47 replies

confused123 · 10/06/2013 11:01

So OH and I just can't seem to stop arguing at the moment which is really getting me down, especially as I'm 12 weeks pg. We had the scan last week, everything was fine (phew!) so this should be a really happy time for us. But all we ever do is bicker and fight, it's really getting me down and now I'm worrying that we're bringing a baby into a war zone. To an extent, I'm starting to think it's our MO. We're both very fiery personalities and I suspect we'll always have our fair share of rows. I just want a more peaceful life and don't know how to make that happen. We don't live together, partly this is for financial reasons but partly it's also because of all the arguments. I was relieved when he went home last night, which isn't good.

On one level the arguments are all about really petty things but on the other hand, I feel there's something deeper going on and that all the arguments are about something much deeper. We bicker a lot, don't seem to have much fun together and every few weeks an argument will escalate into something huge. Which we always end up sorting out and promise each other things will be different and we'll both stop doing xyz, but it never lasts.

I know relationships are hard and I don't expect it to be a bed of roses all the time. But I'm worried that, if things are this bad now, how much worse are they going to be when bean comes along with all the attendant stresses and sleep deprivation that's going to bring.

So one thing that seems to be going on at the mo is I feel quite bullied by him. I've never found it easy to apologise for stuff and I am aware this is a fault. But he's doing this thing at the moment where he demands apologies for stuff which just puts me on the defensive and makes it almost impossible for me to apologise. Like I know I should and it would make things better but it's physically impossible to get the words out. and him standing over me badgering me and insisting I apologise just makes it harder. And often its' about what I regard as really petty stuff and it bugs me that he can't ever just let some stuff slide. He's a teaching assistant and sometimes I feel like one of his pupils, like it's his mission in life to pull me up on every little thing I do wrong and make me apologise for it like a naughty child. And it feels like, instead of letting some stuff slide like I do or waiting for an apology, he jumps down my throat the minute I do something he doesn't like and badgers and bullies me until I apologise. A few times this has happened where I was literally about to send him a text to say sorry and I've received some horrible sarcastic passive aggressive text from him which just pisses me right off and leaves me feeling attacked and defensive instead of apologetic. I have tried to explain this to him but haven't got anywhere.

e.g. yesterday I got out of the car and closed the door a bit too hard. I didn't slam it on purpose, just a bit harder than he likes, he's got a real thing about it. As I walked past the car he had a go at me about it. When I got back in the car he said it again and I said I'd heard him the first time. To which he said "well don't you think you should apologise?" Is it just me or is this really petty? I didn't do it in purpose, it's not a big deal, does it really need an apology? He knows I find it hard to apologise and badgering me like this and insisting on apologies for stupid stuff like this seems really pointless and mean to me. So I lost my temper and said if that's how it was going to be it was going to work both ways and I was going to insist he apologise for everything he did wrong from now on, starting with him having had a go at me that morning for waking him up. He did eventually apologise for that but not until we'd argued about it for ages and I'd ended up crying.

I've just suggested we go for couples counselling. Not that we can afford it but I don't see any other options at this point. It feels like we've done nothing but argue for months now and something needs to change. I know Relate offer discounted therapy dependent on your income but honestly I don't rate them, been here before! Sad

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 10/06/2013 11:56

it is not a way to live

how will he cope with an unpredictable baby? will he want it to apologise for crying/vomiting/pooing up the back of its clothes?

CogitoErgoSometimes · 10/06/2013 12:49

"I know relationships are hard"

Who told you that? Good relationships aren't hard at all. Good relationships are life-affirming, relaxing, rewarding and any difficulties or disagreements are dealt with maturely and considerately. A bad relationship between incompatible people or an unequal relationship where one party is constantly bullying and criticising the other... that's hard work.

I think there's a very good reason you don't live together and it's because you know that no future with this insulting, patronising bully of a man will ever be peaceful

DisgraceToTheYChromosome · 10/06/2013 14:46

A bloke writes: this is not how normal men behave. This is not a normal relationship.

Has he started cutting you off from friends and family? That'll be next. Or gaslighting.

After the birth, the disruption to HIS needs will make him much worse.

DW and I have fiery personalities, but we don't do point scoring, dominance games or hairtrigger twattishness.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 10/06/2013 14:47
confused123 · 10/06/2013 15:21

Thanks for replies. Laying here on sofa feeling very down. The more I think about it the more I feel that he does bully me. My therapist told me relationships are hard but you're right, they shouldn't be this hard. Thing is, obviously I've only given you my side of the story today and I have to take responsibility for my failings too. And yes I know that makes it sound like I'm excusing his behaviour which I'm not. I'm very quick to anger too and have been particularly emotionally labile since getting pg, something he has made absolutely no allowances for whatsoever. He even came out with some fucking crap at the weekend about how men's hormones change in pg too. essentially he seemed to be saying he's pg too and it's as bad for him as it is for me which obviously fucks me right off. I don't feel like he's made any allowances for me being pg at all.

Not once since I've got pg has he just walked away when I've been having a mad crying jag or shouting fit or just taken it on the chin and worked with me to help me calm down. rather he's always got angry too then berated me for it. He's constantly telling me I've got an anger problem which I concede I have in the past but had got a lot better until I got pg and the hormones took over. Though I'm sure he'd say I've always been this bad which would be gas lighting I'd say. He hasn't tried to isolate me from friends or family and would fail if he tried. Been there before!

OP posts:
confused123 · 10/06/2013 15:37

Thanks for replies. Laying here on sofa feeling very down. The more I think about it the more I feel that he does bully me. My therapist told me relationships are hard but you're right, they shouldn't be this hard. Thing is, obviously I've only given you my side of the story today and I have to take responsibility for my failings too. And yes I know that makes it sound like I'm excusing his behaviour which I'm not. I'm very quick to anger too and have been particularly emotionally labile since getting pg, something he has made absolutely no allowances for whatsoever. He even came out with some fucking crap at the weekend about how men's hormones change in pg too. essentially he seemed to be saying he's pg too and it's as bad for him as it is for me which obviously fucks me right off. I don't feel like he's made any allowances for me being pg at all.

Not once since I've got pg has he just walked away when I've been having a mad crying jag or shouting fit or just taken it on the chin and worked with me to help me calm down. rather he's always take it personally, got angry too then berated me for it. He's constantly telling me I've got an anger problem which I concede I have in the past but had got a lot better until I got pg and the hormones took over. Though I'm sure he'd say I've always been this bad which would be gas lighting I'd say.

Yesterday he got really angry because when a friend asked if he'd been looking after me I said not really. Which is how I feel. He turned this into me saying he never looked after me at all then sulked until he went home. Which is what he always does with any criticism, exaggerates what was said, turns it round and pathologise me for it. He never takes on board what I'm saying. He just says there's something wrong with me for saying it or says something like "yeah well you did xyz" Which is v mature isn't it?!

He hasn't tried to isolate me from friends or family and would fail if he tried. Been there before!

We have to at least try make this work cos I'm pg. Not sure I'd want to otherwise. Your replies have made me realise I actually don't want him to move in which isn't good. We're having a baby, we have to try. Thing is I've finished it a few times over the past few months, always in the heat of an argument though I sincerely meant it at the time, and it's always him that insists we work it out. Though that then becomes another weapon to use against me as in when he sat back and watched me work all weekend and didn't lift a finger to help so I ended up with a fucked back, he said "well you've broken up with me x times which really hurt me so there". I think he's feeling very insecure which I understand but treating me like shit isn't helping.

OP posts:
confused123 · 10/06/2013 15:39

Sorry for double post, read second one. love hairtrigger twattishness, brilliant!

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 10/06/2013 15:40

When you say you're quick to anger do you get angry with other people the way you get angry with him? Friends, family, work colleagues.... ? Does he jump down other people's throats and have a go at them about how hard they shut a car door... or does he just save that for you? When you get to this point ... we always end up sorting out and promise each other things will be different and we'll both stop doing xyz, but it never lasts. who does it tend to be leading this apologising and promising to change? I would put money on it being you

You see, I think you are definitely being subjected to bullying and that your angry reaction is largely due to having your buttons expertly pushed so that he can turn round and say .... 'you're the one with a problem'. I suspect you don't actually have a 'fiery personality' outside of this relationship.

Organisations like Womens Aid will tell you that abuse of women often starts with the first pregnancy or first DC. Quite why this happens is debatable but it's a recognised thing. I think you should put some distance between yourself and this man for a while. If you've been in an abusive relationship before (the 'isolation' comment) but it was a different form of abuse, you may not immediately see the similarities.

Your therapist isn't helping btw....

CogitoErgoSometimes · 10/06/2013 15:41

"We have to at least try make this work cos I'm pg"

You emphatically don't. Your baby doesn't need this FW any more than you do....

DisgraceToTheYChromosome · 10/06/2013 15:44

Jesus. When DW was pg we knew the Hormone Fairy would drive her nuts. So she suppressed what she could, and I took the rest.

If his response to your unavoidable physical response is to make it your personal failing, he's AT BEST an irrational manchild. Remember that ATM you're fairly well rested and bump is at the manageable stage.

HTH

CogitoErgoSometimes · 10/06/2013 15:46

" I think he's feeling very insecure which I understand but treating me like shit isn't helping."

He isn't feeling insecure in the slightest. Acts like a twat, shapes up long enough to worm his way back in and then uses the opportunity to stick the boot in..... That's not 'insecurity' that's 'cruelty'. Finish it properly, let him become a CSA/McDonalds Dad in due course.

I don't know why you're seeing a therapist but have you considered that most of the anxiety and stress in your life can be tracked back to one very simple source i.e him? Get rid of him and you may be able to dispense with your 'relationships are hard' so-called therapist at the same time

MrsTerryPratchett · 10/06/2013 15:53

DH has a habit of taking any criticism, real or perceived, very badly. He has a narc father so criticism really affects him. However, he recognises this and is working on it.

Our friends argued horribly in the past. She has abandonment issues (DF died early) and he has an extremely violent DF. So, counselling and they worked it out.

My point is, do you know where all this anger and frustration is coming from and do you both want to work on it? You don't have to you know. You can just be good co-parents with no relationship.

Phalenopsis · 10/06/2013 16:06

I have to say OP, that his behaviour sounds worrying.

What on earth is he going to do when the baby won't stop crying? Messes him/herself? Vomits all over him? Starts teething? Draws on things he/she isn't supposed to etc., etc.

Turning the slightest event round on to you and bullying you until you grovel your apology is no way to treat anyone, let alone the mother of his child.

As for relationships being hard: Nope, sorry not buying that one and I'm quite angry that a therapist would say that relationships are hard. Sounds to me like she is projecting her own unhappiness on to her client. Yes, couples have ups and downs but there don't seem to be too many ups in your case.

Given that you're in the early stages of your pregnancy and you're already feeling knackered and fed up, I don't feel particularly optimistic about your relationship to be honest. It seems very one sided and as scary as the thoughts of going it alone are - I'd be ending this one. He sounds horrible.

MadameBlavatsky · 10/06/2013 16:28

What he is doing to you is abuse, these are NOT normal arguments in a healthy relationship. Please read Lundy Bancroft's book 'Why does he do that? Inside the Minds of angry and controlling men. You will find your DH in there and it will explain to you what is actually happening here.

You can contact women's aid. Please don't think that just because he's not hitting you it's not abusive. They know all about the mind games, what he is doing is emotional and psychological abuse.

You don't have to stay. Your baby needs you to protect it. He will not change.

confused123 · 10/06/2013 16:45

I only get angry like that with him. And I very much doubt he kicks off like that with anyone else, good point. And no in fairness it's both of us who promise to change and make things different. I think you're right that he's pushing my buttons on purpose, I've thought that before. It's a tactic that's been used on me before. My ex did it too. He'd push me and push me and push me until I snapped and went postal then he'd say "see, I always said you were fucking mental". This narrative is given credence by the fact that I had a pretty shit childhood, my mum is a total narcissist and I've spent a lot of hours in counselling, though a lot of this was as part of my training as a counsellor. my last relationship ended very badly and he did bully me. I sometimes wonder though if the problem is that I see the similarities too quickly and compare my OH to my ex unfairly. There are similarities of course but it's not always easy to see things clearly and separate things out. Especially as I live in the same house. He insisted we have a big talk at 1am the other morning, having woken me up deliberately. He literally physically wouldn't let me leave the room until we talked which is exactly what happened one time with my ex. Both times it culminated in me physically attacking him and throwing stuff around and breaking stuff until I was "allowed" to leave. Christ, this is really bad isn't it?

I know we don't HAVE to work it out for the sake of bean but I want to. I'm not prepared to throw in the towel just yet. For all his faults, he has lots of good points too. I don't know where all the anger and frustration is coming from, I wish I did. That's why I think couples counselling would be good for us. He doesn't agree. He's just texted to say we need to go on holiday. Err no. Then he said we just need to understand each other more, stop blaming each other, take responsibility for our actions, say sorry when we make a mistake (aimed at me that one I'm sure) and be nice to each other. All of which is wishful thinking bollocks if you ask me. I told him we've said all this before and it hasn't got us anywhere and that he needs to think about it. He's just replied "if we go be prepared to talk about your narcissistic mother and parents who are never wrong". Wow, what a cunt. That's another thing he does, constantly pathologises me and uses my fucked up family as a weapon against me. Which apart from being really cruel isn't even true because i have done a lot of work on that area and have made my peace with it all as much as I'm ever going to. I've just told him that saying stuff like that is very hurtful and pointed out I don't use bad stuff from his past as a weapon so please don't do it to me.

I do worry about how he's going to cope with being a father. i don't think he has any idea what it's going to be like. He's so bad tempered now, as many of you have said, wtf is he going to be like when we've been up half the night covered in shit, piss and puke? He absolutely hates being woken up, has a proper hissy fit about it, even when it's me just trying to get him to move over when he's hogged 3/4 of the bed in the night. This was another row we had the other night. Basically I have to either put up with him hogging the bed (obviously this isn't deliberate) and not be able to get comfy or wake him up to move him over and get shouted at.

finding out about an appointment at Relate now. I know this all sounds really bad and I really appreciate your advice and comments but I'm just not prepared to give up on this relationship (yet).

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 10/06/2013 16:47

His behaviour doesn't sound good but neither does the OP's. Not once since I've got pg has he just walked away when I've been having a mad crying jag or shouting fit or just taken it on the chin and worked with me to help me calm down. I don't think that because someone is pregnant their behaviour is acceptable at this level. It sounds like everyone in this relationship needs to work on themselves, not just the DH.

MrsTerryPratchett · 10/06/2013 16:48

x-posted.

MrsTerryPratchett · 10/06/2013 16:52

He stopped you leaving the room. This is abuse. You hit him. You need to end this now. There is no sorting this out for the sake of the child. You need to protect yourself and your child.

Cerisier · 10/06/2013 16:54

Good grief, why are you sharing a bed with this selfish man?

He shouts at you when you wake him up when he is hogging the bed? Unbelievable.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 10/06/2013 17:00

It's really bad. I'm so sorry that you think kicking this nasty man to the kerb would be 'giving up' or 'throwing in the towel'. It really wouldn't be. I'm also sorry that you think it's your responsibility to cure him in some way.... it's really not your job (despite any counselling training) to work out where the anger is coming from. It's coming from the motivation to keep you under control....

I've only physically attacked one person in my whole life. It was my exH - an emotionally abusive person and heavy drinker. I've never behaved that way before or since but, that night, he was so offensive and so infuriating that I slapped him across his stupid face. He looked at me with what I can only describe as huge satisfaction. Why, because I'd lost control, I'd been goaded into acting out of character & I was ashamed of myself ... he had brought me as low as it's possible to get. He had won.

Don't let this guy keep winning

Phalenopsis · 10/06/2013 17:06

"but I'm just not prepared to give up on this relationship (yet)."

Then why post this thread? What did you want people to say? Did you want reassurance about his behaviour? No one has told you that any of this is normal. The man sounds like he's a monster in the making, the relationship doesn't sound as though it's going anywhere or is doing either of you any good and the more you post, the worse he and your relationship sounds.

What do you think will happen once the baby arrives? Do you expect something to click and for your relationship to suddenly become so much better? That fatherhood will the making of him? I don't share your optimism.

I honestly think that in a year's time you're going to be posting another thread about his behaviour and how it has escalated. You're wasting your time - sorry.

confused123 · 10/06/2013 17:24

MrsTP, I agree that being pg doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you like and I'm not saying I'm perfect and don't need to do any work on myself. But I do think that it can cause you to act out of character and those around you should cut you some slack.

I don't know why I posted. I think I needed confirmation that I'm not going mad and that his behaviour isn't ok. I know that sounds stupid but I guess when you're in the middle of something it's not always easy to see things how they really are. I know things aren't going to get better once bean arrives. Tbh we'd given up on ttc cos things were so bad between us then fell pg anyway, much to our surprise having tried for so long. I naively hoped that we could at least enjoy being pg together and we'd grow closer and work things out now in time for its arrival. But that seems less and less likely as time goes on. I do think I owe it to myself, him and bean to at least try work things out though. Perhaps you're right and I'll be posting on here again in a few weeks or months about how things have got worse. But at least I'll have tried. We're booked into Relate on Thursday...

Thanks again for all the replies, I do appreciate it and it's helped me gain some perspective and feel stronger and more confident in what I'm saying. I've always had a hard time trusting my own judgement and gut feelings about stuff, it's time I reconnected with myself and what I need and want.

Got a client coming now(!), be back later.

OP posts:
confused123 · 10/06/2013 21:23

After he agreed to going on Thursday, he sent a couple more texts pathologising me and saying some other crap related to my mother and needing to apologise. Rather than get into it with him there and then I told him I thought it best we don't discuss it again until Thursday and I need some space. He hasn't replied to that so he's either in a huff or is realising this is serious and is respecting my wishes for a change. Thanks again for the advice guys, I'll post an update on Thursday or sooner if anything happens.

OP posts:
EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 10/06/2013 21:43

Fucking hell. Your relationship sounds like mine was when DS was tiny. It never got better by the way. And at least we were nice to each other while I was pregnant :( how much worse will yours get after the baby is born?
This relationship is O V E R but you don't realise it yet. It will be so much easier for you if you end it before the baby is born, trust me

MadameBlavatsky · 11/06/2013 00:24

Beware of going to relationship counselling with him, it's not advised with an abusive man. It will end up being used against you.

I have been there. It made it a lot worse. Sad

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