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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please help me cope during this appalling divorce.

54 replies

HeliumHeart · 09/06/2013 16:11

I'm going through the most horrendous divorce from a man I am increasingly frightened of in terms of how controlling and vile he is capable of being. We separated a few months ago; since then he first of all refused to move out and kept calling the police claiming I was abusing him every time we had a row. He hadn't been working for a few months and despite having previously been a v high earner, was giving me £5 a week for maintenance, and I had to apply for benefits. He is now working but offering us "very generously; lots of ordinary families would be happy on that you know" 20% of his income minus anything he has paid towards us in advance (including the mortgage). He has now moved out completely although keeps the spare room in our house locked, as a mark of his continuing control in the house. We only have 3 bedrooms and we have twin DC, so effectively we now live in a 2 bedroom house.

I am completely at my wits end about how to cope with him. He normally turns up to see the DC at 9.30 on a Sunday; today he texted to say it was going to be more like 11am because he had had to take the removal van back. I sent him one text saying could we try to avoid these last minute changes, because the DC had been ready for a long time waiting for him. This clearly set him off, and a few texts later (mine were all bar one very polite and even my rude one was pretty tame) he said he wasn't coming after all, turned round and went home on the train. Leaving me to explain to the DC that their father wasn't coming after all. I continually try to get him to Skype them during the week, to no avail. He claims constantly that I am driving a wedge between him and the children (age 3) and preventing his relationship with them. He says I bully him and engineer arguments such as today's which means he can't see them.

At worst, I honestly feel completely and utterly bullied and intimidated by him. I am so glad we are divorcing but wonder when the sense of being controlled and bullied by him will stop. Sometimes I think never :(

I just don't know what to do. I either STFU and let him do whatever he wants, or the other option is to call him on his unreliability etc and run the risk of his wrath. He punishes me for every "infraction".

Since we separated he has also been warning me of some financial "doom" that will beset us when we divorce that he can't tell me about "for legal reasons". He has at times said that we will have to sell the house and that there will be almost nothing left afterwards (this shouldn't be the case, there are sizeable assets as far as I know). I know I can't control what happens, but I mention this just to add to the extent that he seems to enjoy threatening and upsetting me. Of course, he adds on the fact that oh how he wishes things were different and this was not the case, but that sadly it is. He sighs and tells me he would love to be able to tell me what is happening, but he can't.

Sorry for the essay. Everyone tells me not to have any contact with him but obviously we need to have contact regarding arrangements for the children (in fact we are actually under order from the court not to have any other contact). Even the most basic arrangement nearly always ends in disaster, like today. I need to speak to my lawyer tomorrow but am at my utter wits end following today's balls up re. the children. :(

OP posts:
Jengnr · 10/06/2013 18:47

The mimi thing is a great idea - save him as that in your phone too. The more you take the piss out of something the less power it has.

Also, I'd suggest getting a cheapo phone with a PAYG sim, give only him that number and change your normal one. That way when your ordinary phone rings/beeps you won't dread answering in case it's him trying to torment you. And you only have to answer it if the kids are with him.

Potteresque97 · 10/06/2013 19:08

Helium, just a message to say he sounds just like my dear friend's awful ex h, the advice on here is so right and it will get better, once she got it all formalized, comms only via email, stopped him having an emotional avenue to manipulate her directly, her life got so much better. Oddly, he is an ok dad and the formality stopped him from messing around plans to his advantage as that looks bad for him to the courts. Well done for getting rid of him. Check the equity on the house yourself to put your mind at rest, you should be able to do that if joint names?

Joy5 · 10/06/2013 19:15

Glad you're feeling better and more upbeat today, its not easy dealing with an ex who behaves like this, but i'm like you, just keeping a roof over mine and our two youngest sons heads isn't being unreasonable, especially when like my ex hes moved into a massive detached house with his girlfriend.

So far the judicial system is backing me, think thats where being honest comes in, you only have to remember one version, whereas if you lie you have to remember all versions. Also helps keeping the same solicitor, my ex is now on his third, no wonder the latest keeps making basic errors. Getting immense satisfaction correcting him, latest was to claim i was left with the family car after the end of our marriage, and ex didn't even have a vehicle! According to his bank statements hes been putting petrol in, taxing and paying insurance for it on a monthly basis as well as new tyres a few months ago, so looking forward to hearing how they get out of that one.

Like i said before keep strong, its easier said then done i know, but 18 months on i'm starting to enjoy life again, my sons have a fractered relationship with their Dad, moneys still a major worry, the maintenance still hasn't been formally agreed, but we're getting there, and you will too. xxx

MushroomSoup · 10/06/2013 19:17

One of the most helpful things I was told when I was I'm your position was
you cannot expect an unreasonable man to act reasonably

That really resonated with me. I kept waiting for him to behave properly, put the children first and stop trying to bait me. When I realised he was always going to be unreasonable life got easier! I expected him to be a twunt instead of being surprised when he was a twunt. It made my life so much simpler.

HeliumHeart · 10/06/2013 22:36

Thanks all. Have had a shite evening after he announced that I should be expecting a letter in the post from his lawyer. I pushed him again about Skype and he claims that it isn't working in his house. Then I asked him about having phone contact and he said he doesn't want to be a phone or computer screen dad, he wants to have real contact.

Not sure if I mentioned he's also gunning for 50:50 residency/contact. :(

We had a similar situation before, when he was living here. Overnight he announced that despite me being a SAHM and him being out of work but having always been the provider, he wanted to split the childcare 50:50 and both of us try to go out and get full time work, putting the DC into childcare during the week. ((I was horrified; it's not that I don't want to work, but I knew that this would play into his hands completely - making us suddenly joint carers, whereas we'd never been before. He thinks he's the next Messiah when it comes to parenting and one of the things which always used to upset me was that he constantly undermined my decisions, particularly when they were ill, and despite the fact he had very little to do with their day-to-day care when he worked.)) However, when I refused to say yes to that he suddenly stopped seeing the children. He refused to ever make plans to see them, because he believed that if he accepted the "scraps" I was offering him, it would set a precedent during the divorce. So rather than see the children every weekend and agree to put them to bed some evenings during the week or spend a few set afternoons with them, he just stopped seeing them. For about 6-8 weeks.

So now I realise that he's still going for the 50:50, or an approximation thereof, despite being back at work and living several miles away from us. And because of his work and the fact that he doesn't quite know how he's going to get it, he's refusing to accept the "scraps" of Skype or phone calls. He has been reticent to agree on any overnights, and again I know it's because he thinks he's being short-changed, so won't agree to anything.

Had a very busy day, what with the WA thing and looking after a friend's daughter for the afternoon. Tomorrow will speak to my lawyer and see what I should think about doing. But at the moment feeling very overwhelmed.

Could anyone advise me what the worst that could happen were he to see this thread? He couldn't sue me for it or anything, could he? :(

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 10/06/2013 22:44

Make sure his refusal to sw them is recorded by email so you can present that.

He can't do anything I don't think about you posting on anonymous mum's net board

cestlavielife · 10/06/2013 22:46

Keep offering reasonable contact by email politely so you have his response. You need to keep good cord of contact overdue and him refusing it....

cestlavielife · 10/06/2013 22:47

Keep good record of contact offered and him refusing it

CharlieUniformNovemberTango · 10/06/2013 22:50

I just wanted to say that his plan not to accept the 'scraps' will backfire horribly when you point out that he's had very little involvement or consistency in DC lives thus far.

He doesn't sound all that clever to me.....

Walkacrossthesand · 10/06/2013 23:37

Could anyone advise me what the worst that could happen were he to see this thread? He couldn't sue me for it or anything, could he?

Remember, we dont know who you are - sadly, as someone else said, abusive exes are all too alike in their behaviours - and laws of libel/slander (the only ones he could try re lawsuit) can't be invoked when you're both anonymous... MNHQ would give pretty short shrift to anyone trying to uncover a poster's identity, unless it was with a police warrant and concerned public safety..
It's a sad indicator of how beleaguered , cowed, threatened you feel. Read and re-read the posts above, take heart from others who've walked the same path and emerged on the other side. You can do it.

HeliumHeart · 11/06/2013 08:49

I hope that's the case, although I know he's trying to build a case for being the victim and that's what scares me. The sad truth is that due to what seem to me to be clear MH issues, he genuinely does appear to believe that he is bullied by me and that he is the victim here. He claims to have been abused while he was living here (read: standard arguments due to highly stressful circumstances while separating); ousted from the house (he announces he's having a relationship with a woman he had an affair with whilst we were together and unsurprisingly I struggle to be civil to him). He wouldn't say where he was when he left and without wanting to sound rude I honestly cannot think of any friend who would put him up. He is also on ADs and anti-anxiety pills and literally is so on the edge that any assertion from me whatsoever makes him crumble and say I'm being a bully. On Sunday me just saying "Please try not to be late in future, it's upsetting for the DC" was enough to make him turn round and go home on the train :(

Yesterday's WA workshop was good, although because he claims he's being abused by me I feel like I can't even get into that, because all I keep thinking is that nobody is going to believe that he makes me feel like this. I feel like because he's not actually doing anything criminal, none of it is going to matter and it's all going to be "he said, she said". :(

OP posts:
Jengnr · 11/06/2013 09:26

He's abusing you. There is no question about that. Take the powe back.

Keep contact just to email. Refuse to discuss anything but arrangements for the children. If he gives you any shit just close him down. Don't engage with anything other than day to day contact arrangements. Let your lawyer do the rest.

Tell him the children will be available for skype at x time. You do not need to engage further. If he doesn't want to skype don't discuss reasons, say ok and end the conversation, switch the computer off and go out.

Don't discuss things in person. See if someone else can help with handovers so you don't have to see him (and also so there is a witness to any awkward behaviours). You don't need this wanker in your life.

You're doing really well, keep going, you will get through this.

HeliumHeart · 11/06/2013 09:39

Thanks. At the moment I anticipate that his lawyer's letter will say that he feels abused and harassed by me; that he wants no contact other than at handover and possibly with a third party present. All of which I'm fine with (for obvious reasons!) although get nervous that he will have been seen to initiate this, because it makes me look bad!

So fucked off because I took the DC yesterday to one of those paint-your-own ceramic places yesterday to make him a fucking mug for Fathers Day. Now who feels like a fucking mug!!! Angry

"Take the power back." Has to be my mantra........

OP posts:
Snorbs · 11/06/2013 11:05

Some of it will end up being seen as "He said, she said". But facts like him turning down contact because he doesn't think it's good enough is just stupid. It shows that he's seeing this from the point of view of what he wants rather than from the point of view of what is best for the children. Judges aren't impressed by that.

If he's a good, involved parent then he'll know that any contact is better than no contact. Plus, any solicitor worth his/her salt (as well as any recommendations from the various organisations that deal with this kind of thing) would tell him that he should take any and all opportunities for contact as that will then build a good basis for going to court to ask for more.

If he goes into court with the attitude that he knows better than everyone else then he's going to get a shock. In the meantime, minimise your contact with him as much as possible and only discuss contact via something that produces a written record. Anything that you have that shows he's turning down contact because it doesn't meet his expectations will out him as the self-centred cock that he is.

cestlavielife · 11/06/2013 12:00

yeh exp turned up at school meeting today and (even tho it was off topic) told everyone that I was stopping contact with his DS...even tho first i agreed weekly dinner visits - which he then cancelled most weeks so it became every other or third week....and really he sees him whenever he says virtually and half the time when he says "can I pick ds up at six thirty?" I say yes fine; then he doesn't turn up til 7.30 !! aargghg. (ds older but SN so like a three year old -an hour in expectation is a v bad thing)
these people will always make out they the victim.

and breathe....

have just sent him polite email reiterating that he is welcome to take ds for dinner any or all of three evenings per week (when he doesn't have after school stuff) and on weekends . [reality being he will only take up about one of those...]

DHtotalnob · 11/06/2013 12:07

OP, this thread has really stayed with me. I don?t know if I?ll have anything helpful to say, but sometimes the obvious just does need stating.

Stop. Just stop. Brew

I can feel from your posts that you are caught in a perpetual thought process of ?what ifs? and ?can he? and trying to cover off every permutation of an already complex situation. It?s not possible to have an answer or plan for everything. If I could reach through the screen and grab you I would (for a hug, not as in a mugging Shock).

You only need to think about things that are happening, things that are factual and things that are sensible to consider. Being sued for libel on MN? No.

You know all this:

He?s a shitty little bully. You know what is normal behavior. You know that people who are upset can behave badly. You know he is acting way outside these parameters. It?s because he is behaving so badly that you doubt yourself. Don?t. You are normal and he is not.

This is not you. From this thread you come across as considered and self-aware. I looked at some of your other postings and you are informed, rational and practical. I bet you don?t recognize yourself at the moment. Please just re-read your thread as though it was someone else?s. There are some obvious things for you to do and you certainly have the capacity to identify them.

You know all this, too:

Contact centres. Someone upthread mentioned these. They sound ideal, especially if they can be used for handovers. Saving that, meet somewhere neutral and have someone else with you. If you are feeling vulnerable to misrepresentation (which you are right to), then refuse to get into any situations where it would be your word against his. That?s just common sense. I don?t know about court orders and their implications, but others on this thread clearly do. Make sure the line legally drawn in the order is not blurred or crossed.

RL support. I don?t know if you have friends or family close by. If possible, nominate someone for all contact to go through. In my experience, help in this way doesn?t have to come from someone super-close to you. If you know anyone who you think would be good for the role (ie just a little scary and strict ? maybe another mum you know) then think about asking them. If you ask for specific help from a specific person people are often only too glad to do what they can. And you can time-limit it to, say, the next 2 months so the person knows what they are committing to.

The house and the locked room. Tonnes of scope here for endless speculation about what you could, should, shouldn?t, might, won?t etc etc etc. Alternatively, you could just ask your lawyer what the law says (and it will be quite clear) and stick with that. Then that?s a whole chunk of angst off your plate.

Finances. His ludicrous sounding secret-squirrel financial doom-mongering aside, do you have access to financial information? Hearing that you have sizable assets ?as far as you know? is very vague. Do you feel you?ve been as savvy as you can about finding stuff out? Maybe you?ve had legal advice on this already and are okay.

Talking shite. You do know that he is making up the law as well as twisting your interactions, don?t you? Disclaimer here in that I am not a lawyer but in my job I deal with people who are domineering, often bullying and have made up their own moral code. When you call them on it, they often get all legalistic both in their tone (I hereby, therefore, the undersigned, notwithstanding, without prejudice blah blah blah) and with references to random statute they have heard of. It?s irksome (because they still think they?re oh so clever), but good because after that it really is like shooting fish in a barrel. I?m always amazed that bullies chose something as well documented as the law to blag. They?re only embarrassing themselves, although I?m incensed that it does intimidate a lot of people and they get away with it. You know it?s bollocks, or you know how to Google and find out.

Take the piss. Jengnr is totally right and it?s a great way to undermine him in your head: from someone who intimidates you to someone unmasked as a phoney, and subsequently his power diminishes (think Scooby Doo baddies, or the Wizard of Oz (if he was also a twat)). The key to this is to be totally juvenile and keep it as a private joke to yourself. Examples: Benny Hill ring-tone for him, read out all his texts aloud in a whiney baby voice, remember his worst pair of pants, imagine what he would do in his ?special room?. I?m sure people have other ideas that helped them, too. A friend and a bottle of wine works well.

It wont be like this forever. Frequent advice is to take one day at a time, which is valid, but beware of trying to solve a year?s worth of problems in that one day, every day. It?s exhausting, so don?t do it.
Yes, you have decisions and choices, but a whole load of other stuff will just happen. The world keeps turning, so why not live today but with half an eye on, say, 3 months time. Think about where you might be in 3 months ? not a target or a challenge, just what you think your life will look like. Then in 3 months look back and see what?s changed, what hasn?t, and what the next 3 months might look like. That way you acknowledge the little improvements you would otherwise have forgotten about, plus you get better at managing your own expectations of resolution. You?ll feel more in control.

Christ, I?ve gone on! Sorry about that. I hope some was helpful.

PS ? my mum would call him a pompous little twerp. ?Twerp? always makes me smile ? so dismissive!

HeliumHeart · 11/06/2013 15:55

Thank you all. I've spoken to my lawyer now and feel suitably calmed and so I should at that price Wink

Nothing arrived in the post today from his camp and I'm feeling a lot calmer about it. When things kick off, I start to feel as though I'm being swamped by this crazy person, that this divorce is going to spiral out of all control because (in the words of Father Ted) there's a rabbit in there operating the controls. And that what assets there are will be squandered by both of us on legal bills.

Lawyer has advised regarding the locked room and I feel good about it :)

DHtotalnob - yes I do know more than that; have checked with the Land Registry and there are no charges on the marital home other than the mortgage. We have a fair amount of equity, plus there are 3 other properties (one in my name). Who knows what he's talking about; it could be bankruptcy, could be something to do with HMRC, I just don't know. All I do know is that it's pretty indefensible for him to be alluding to these cloak and dagger type of issues, particularly when at the moment I don't work and am looking after the children and am therefore vulnerable.

There is so much good advice here, thank you to all. I think I'm feeling particularly vulnerable because I recently switched lawyers and he's not really up to speed yet (understandably) so I feel a bit like I'm floating around with no real guidance.

OP posts:
HeliumHeart · 11/06/2013 16:03

Meant to say MushroomSoup - that this

you cannot expect an unreasonable man to act reasonably ... is very very true.

I have enough examples of his unreasonableness, why do I ever expect him to behave differently?

OP posts:
Potteresque97 · 12/06/2013 08:50

At least you are getting away from him, hold onto that, your life is going to be better for this. No-one wants to spend money on lawyers but with these kind of toxic people its absolutely needed. Divorce is the worst because you have to confront the bully and he's trying his full array of mean tricks, your lawyer will get up to speed soon.

downunderdolly · 12/06/2013 10:36

Hello Helium

Golly, I feel like we may have been married to the same man. I am so sorry for the stresses that you are going through. I don't want to talk about my back story too much or hijack (some may be familar with posts from the last 2 years) but 2.5 years on from separation and 1.5 years on from divorce, my ex-H is (although not official yet) seeking to gain 50/50 custody and overnight has had a 360 in the way he communicates (previously, almost zero, refusal to co-parent, unpleasant emails, bullying etc - to crazily saccharine dad of the year, plus the odd 'concern' thrown in for good measure. I feel harassed, on edge and bullied. I'm seeking legal advise in to how I respond to all this and it will play out as it will play out.

But what I really wanted to tell you was this. After 2.5 years of thinking that if I am reasonable and play nice and do this, he will do xy and z, something happened over the weekend that made me realise what many of my close friends have probably known for a while. It may sound over dramatic but it is this. He means me harm. He means me financial and emotional harm. As others have said up thread, I cannot expect reason as he is not a reasonable man. I now realise that as horrifying a concept it is, the man I fell in love with once is now my enemy and I need to defend myself. If someone had told me this at the outset I would have thought jesus how overblow, but now, well, now I am being as smart as possible. I have a self imposed 24 hour rule on email responses (to avoid acting on emotion) and whilst terrified of how things will go try, like the excellent post by DHtotalknob, to deal with what is in front of me.

Huge love and luck Flowers

HeliumHeart · 12/06/2013 10:45

Thank you Flowers That actually really resonates with me. Despite what he tells me (in a very calm reasonable voice), I do feel as though he means me harm.

Not looking forward to the postman arriving today...

OP posts:
downunderdolly · 12/06/2013 11:50

Helium - re-reading I wrote in first person about me, me, me - what I hope you gathered was that I meant to convey to you that you need to arm yourself legally and as much as is possible emotionally against him.

What I recall from our legal and parenting settlement (which he is now trying to overturn hey ho) is that one is put into a position of trying to organise the rest of your life at precisely the moment one is least physically and emotionally equipped to do so due to the trauma of it all. I made a few mistakes due to exhaustion (and in my case being in a different country) so do get as much legal and RL support as possible at this critical time.

Also rememer that the hideous turmoil you get about receiving a letter (I just got one) is more about the situation and less about the contents of the letter at this stage. Just because he 'wishes' this or that, does not mean it will come to fruition. I've just received a stinker, had a panic, but actually it is what he WANTS, not what he will get. I can send one back with what I WANT, and so forth.....it has no current power over you, over and above trying to make feel vulnerable. Huge love. xx

Joy5 · 12/06/2013 12:02

Just want to echo the last few posts, just because they say it in a legal letter doesn't mean it will happen.

Wish i could have believed that a year ago, but 12 months on, having received more then 20 legal letters, 11 of then in less then 2 weeks in May this year, i now know my ex means me harms, he sees me as the enemy and will treat me as such. If that backfires onto our youngest sons, then its my fault for being the enemy!

I'm still dreading the postman, still need an financial agreement to be reached, but i'm still here, and will do whatever it takes to keep a roof over mine and my 2 youngest sons heads.

Sending hugs, how it gets to this, from love to one partner willing to go to any depths to hurt the other i just can't understand, but it happens unfortunately.

HeliumHeart · 12/06/2013 12:09

Quick message, oh joy. Email from him this morning saying that he can't pay me any more than the 10% of his income he's paid this month (he should be paying 20% although is deducting mortgage etc. from it) because he's "run out of money". There are no words.

OP posts:
HeliumHeart · 12/06/2013 12:28

About to try and get out and be free of the fog in this house, I just feel like I'm sitting here trying to forget about him and his disgusting behaviour.

So sorry to read about the shit some of you have been through at the hands of these twats. Hugs back.x

OP posts: