MIL and LONG <I know &#150; sorry!>

[firstpost]

My current situation is I have a DS 22 months and 8 months pregnant, DH is in the forces and away until November. My relationship with MIL has deteriorated from ?quite bad? to totally fucking awful since having DS. Bit of background certainly cannot itemise everything or will break Mumsnet!:-

She arrived 5 days after the birth (they live an aeroplane ride away) she tells me breast feeding made her feel sick, both her and FIL leaving the room or requiring me to leave the room everytime he wanted a feed. This was post C section so up and the down the stairs every five minutes. Every time I picked my tiny newborn up she would say ?you?re spoiling him? ?you?ll soon see, it?s your first you?ll learn? etc etc They went out most days requiring my DH to drive them ? I didn?t go as still sore from stitches and DS so tiny and feeding all the time.

A few months later on the way to a dinner dance wearing a dress and jewellery still pretty self conscious as carrying extra weight she turned to me, and said ?oh look Mummy is off to make some money tonight!?

She is racist, she knows full well I am not and that I will soon have a half Indian niece or nephew and uses this to bait me. Passing through our town ?oh its very black around here? ?oh its more pakkis here isn?t it? etc etc

My first trip to a shopping centre with DS around 4 months or so, she took the pram off me and we walked towards the lifts / escalators. Signs everywhere saying ?do not use pram on escalators? I am running after her telling her, please use the lift, louder and louder eventually she tips the pram and takes him on the escalator in the pram (not his pram, not really built for his size, not strapped in) and looks back victoriously saying ?I didn?t hear you!? She bloody did.

She objects to everything I do with DS, baby led weaning (whats wrong with spoon feeding) Co sleeping ?if he dies you will be arrested for murder? Steaming vegetables FFS! She has such a massive chip on her shoulder about anyone who she perceives as being posh or up themselves ? I am neither IMO.

So.. anyway she and 2 other GC came to stay just before DH left on tour. I am heavily pregnant and get Noro virus and am hideously ill a few days before they arrive, can?t keep down water have to have anti emetic injection am warned that as immune compromised I can re catch it so be careful with hygiene if anyone else in family gets it.

Anyway, one of the GC gets ill 2 days into the trip. She feeds them Calpol and croissants (you can imagine what happens next) I ask that the GC (9 yrs) use the toilet to be sick rather than the emergency bowl at her feet. MIL refuses and tucks her up on the sofa in the lounge. She is sick several times. It makes me feel ill being so recently recovered and I say nothing and go upstairs to bedroom.

GOD this is so long ? sorry!

Anyway the next day she leaves to go home. She rants all the way to the airport (DH driving them there without me) about how I made her feel unwelcome, I victimised the GC for being ill when it was my fault for giving it to them. My DH comes home, and let her rant and rave about me without tackling it, fails at any future opportunity to put forward the alternative POV ? EG ? me trying to look after unborn baby, and not being unreasonable in expecting a 9 yr old to use the loo to be ill.

There has been no contact between me and MIL since DH left in mid April. I do not want to visit them at Xmas with new baby. In fact if I never saw her again that would be delightful BUT I don?t have that option do I? We are stuck with each other. Do I get them to come over here? They have a 2 bed which would be squash with me, DH and 2 kids in one room so could use this as excuse.

Should I just tell her how I feel and lay it on the line ? eg let?s just suck it up and pretend to get on because otherwise my DH will miss out and so will you. Do I stop visiting in couple of years when DCs are older and could go with DH alone? Does this leave me vulnerable to her filling their heads with racist crap and horrid stuff about me?

I know that DH needs to be stronger.. He has failed so many times to stand up for me.. I know that he is scared to lose her altogether she has no qualms in cutting off family. She cut off her sister and her Mother for some time due to some petty issue or other. I just dread the day I have to be in the same room with her again and don?t know how to handle it. I don?t want to make my DH choose, I don?t want to take her crap anymore either. Is there a point where I do say her or me? So wise Mumsnetters .. Please tell me what the hell to do about Christmas visiting so I can stop stressing about it!

If anyone has actually read this far you deserve a medal :)

Yes sock, I agree. I believe when you say nothing people think you agree with them and that their behavior is accepted, you have to say something, keep repeating, sound like a broken record.

If they come to visit book them into a hotel so atleast you get some time out. Also same when you visit them booj into a hotel and start slowly setting up boundaries. Christmas isnt a good time of year to visit family because of the weather everybody is e cooped indoors and are more crankier. Stay st home or book a holiday at Christmas so you wont be spending it with them. Can you visit your family at Christmas insteads?

Extend the gaps between each visit and pull her up on her behaviour by saying the classic do you mean to be so rude or sorry did you say something useful. When my sister kicks off screaming I walk out of the room but I tell her that I will talk to her when she is rational.

Your dh needs to establish v clear boundaries with her, she knows she can get away with it because you are both not presenting a united front.Remember that you dont need to see her when your partner is away. You both need to talk about it otherwise it will cause problems in your relationship.

I have Polish heritage and am happy to use a welfare trip to puree rhubarb leaves into your MIL's trifle. Seriously.

I have had one bad MIL and one good MIL. Both opinionated, both inverted snobs salt of the earth and so on. The difference was that for MILII I was confident, happy, didn't back down on things, expected support from DH (eventually) and treated my house as my house and her house as her house. The DH's left us to it. Yours is worse than mine but the same applies. Don't take behaviour from a relative that you wouldn't accept from a stranger in the street.

It's a bit early to discuss Christmas, but certainly don't go or make tentative plans. Say it will be you and your dh plus dc Or if he is away, then you may go to your parents.

She sounds awful. Why would you go at Christmas anyway? You aren't even all speaking now.

I wouldn't let her round my dc without me, and unless she was civil she wouldn't get anywhere. Don't ever stay with her. And if she comes to you, then your dh must be there, and she must be civil.

What did your dh say when she was so rude to you, when you were ready to go out? I would have said " is that supposed to be funny? Because its very hurtful and rude." Then if she flew into a rage, let her. Hopefully she will leave and you will never see her again.

Have you told any of this to your parents? They will want the best for their GC and DD and will not want evil MIL's nastiness anywhere near them or you.

They might have some idea of how to precede as they know the parties involved.

PS If my DD was having problems with her MIL like this and her DH was away I would be stepping in to help no question.

Surely them using up flights for a "welfare" visit when they won't come to see you and your welfare would be compromised if they did, is fraud? Can't think that HM Forces would be happy to know that!

OMG, that woman is a disgrace to womanhood, no, to humanity.

You need to grow a back bone. If she comments on your breastfeeding say "If this offends you, you better leave then! " Dont back down! Dont scuttle upstairs! You are giving the woman too much power!

Dont go for Christmas. Tell your dh, if he wants to go, he is on his own, and you have your own thoughts about men who puts their mothers above their wives, children and newborns.

As for visiting when baby is born. Just dont invite them. Dont prepare for them. If they come, ask them what hotel they are staying in. Surely welfare should pay for that ....

Its been very cathartic getting it all out here :) I have nearly posted many times but the fact these stories make me sooo identifyable has stopped me. But really, if she read this, every word is true so what do I have to fear? To answer some questions: The "mummy's off to make some money tonight" was made when it was her me and baby DS in the room. I told DH, he said it was out of order but just his Mums sense of humour. At the time my response to her was "wow, that sounded really harsh MIL, did you mean to be so harsh" I was a mnetter by then :) She said, only joking ha ha.

DH has a view that me and MIL are just very different, she grew up in a rough area, one of 9, never seen the world, worked or really left the UK. She is a difficult woman but she loves her son, and her grandchildren - and I believe she does love them .. this is showed mainly in presents - she bought my DS about 30 toys for xmas - but that doesnt eliminate every other issue there is.

I agree with every single person who said challenge the racism. I am ashamed to say in the beginning I said nothing - certainly never agreed but never spoke up.For the last few years I do challenge, every time. Usually this leads to an awkward silence but long passed worrying about that.

I prefer the idea of them staying here at xmas time, this will be their first chance to see their GC and DH will only be home in November.If I say NO to them coming I am worried what pain that will cause my DH, he will have had a really tough year and will want his parents to meet his new baby. I am stuck. Xmas itself will be spent with my parents as we were over there last year. The other problem is I cant really tackle this with DH while he is away, it wouldnt be fair or safe for him to be worrying about this while he is out in a dangerous place.

In principle I absolutely agree I should not be the one going upstairs to breastfeed, in practise if its hard to do when you know you are making the others in the room feel sick and uncomfortable. I often used it as an excuse to stay upstairs for a few hours to get some peace!

One more MIL story, then I will stop! This relates to the funeral of her own MIL whom she unsurprisingly didnt get on with. We were at the venue for the wake. All walking as a group of 9 or so towards the bar area along a corridor with several doors and areas leading off it. The MILS sister who is in her early 70's and had just lost her sister was walking with us. My MIL as a "joke" starts sending her the wrong way through the wrong door and tries to convince everyone else walking in the group to run away. She does this a few times, thinking its a great joke. Its like she is only happy when trying to make someone else feel small or silly or inferior. Even an elderly lady at her sisters funeral.

Scuttling upstairs in your own home post c-section (or at all!) - NO! If they do not like to see you bf, THEY can eff off upstairs. YOUR home, YOUR choice.

If she is racist - call her on it every time. ASK her WHY she is making racist comments. SAY to your DC's that those comments are racist, and being racist is horrible and illegal.

If she makes comments about you (WTF?!) - Call her on it EVERY TIME. Ask her if she meant to be do rude and hurtful.

DON'T stay at their house. Book a hotel, at minimum. Personally I wouldn't waste my money booking a hotel unless she could be civil towards me, and behave acceptably (no racist comments while I was there, and no comments about me) whilst I am there.

Of she makes those sort of comments, leave. Tell your DH that you will NOT put up with being spoken to like that, or having to listen to racist comments, and explain that if it happens, you WILL be leaving. As will the children. He can choose whether to come or not.

I have had a MIL like yours. And a DH too soft to stick up for me. So I made him.

I would NOT be allowing the second visit money to be used for HIS patents as well as the first that they are using for a shopping trip. Bollox to that. One for his parents, one for yours. Simple as.

Make arrangements for the second payment to be processed for YOUR parents. If his parents ask later on, it will be tough shit.

As for them coming when you have the baby? NO! Not if they won't be polite, respectful, and keep their comments about bf and their racist comments and their derogatory comments about you to themselves.

If they say anything out of order, ask them to leave.

You do NOT have to put up with behaviour like this in your own home from ANYONE. Not even if they happen to be your DH's parents.

As he is currently unable to stick up for you, because of his conditioning from his childhood, then you HAVE to stick up for yourself.

He won't like it. Because HE will then get the histrionics from his mother. He needs to learn that YOU will NOT put up with being treated like this, and then he will slowly learn that it is NOT acceptable for ANYONE to treat you this way.

And if he doesn't, that STILL doesn't mean that you have to put up with it.

And it is incredibly damaging for your DC's to be around someone who is out and out nasty to their Mother. What sort of example is it setting to your DC if they see that Granny is allowed to be rude and nasty to their Mum without being pulled up on it? Sooner or later, your DC will be thinking that they can be rude and nasty to you without being pulled up on it?

Ditto for racism.

I would NOT be allowing my DC's to spend time with ANYONE who is rude towards and about me, racist etc. without being there - therefore if the MIL has made it so that I cannot be in her presence, then she has also made it so that the DC's can't be in her presence. Until she can behave appropriately.

As soon as she can behave appropriately and respectfully, I would build bridges, but not until that point.

OP. You do NOT have to 'put up' with behaviour like this from anyone. NOT EVEN your PIL.

If your DH is unhappy with that, ask him what he would do if YOUR parents were acting like that. What he would expect YOU to do, too. Or if it was one of his work colleagues. Or one of your friends acting like that around him...

Your DH needs to realise that this is an unwinnable situation. He absolutely CANNOT make both you AND his Mother happy whilst she continues to behave like this. He just wants everyone to be happy. He needs to realise that you CANNOT AND SHOULD NOT be happy with somebody behaving like this towards you and around you and your DC's.

So either his Mother has to change and act acceptably, OR you have to change and stop accepting being treated like this OR you have to stop contact until she behaves acceptably.

Either way, SOMEONE is going to be unhappy. This is the point where he needs to grow the fuck up and realise that he us not his Mummy's little boy any more, he is a Husband and a Father, and those roles should come first in his life now.

So he should be standing up for, and making happy his DC's first. Then his wife. THEN after he has endured his DC's and wife are happy, he should make his Mother happy last.

I have 3 DS's. If I made ANY of their wives (in the future) feel as uncomfortable around me as you do around their MIL (me), I would consider that I was failing in that role...

She's a witch. I now have a very relaxed relationship with my (now) ex-MIL. It took until I had been refusing to put up with her shit for a full 12 years first though.

Now I trust her around my DC's as much as I trust myself. But it took 12 years of nuttiness like you describe for us to get to that point!

I just called her out EACH AND EVERY TIME she behaved unacceptably. And didn't back down.

YES, it caused my (now) Ex pain. But now he is glad of it, because now we get on fine, and his Mother has sorted herself the fuck out, and is now no longer like that generally. It was just that nobody had actually stood up to her before and said "No, I will NOT tolerate you behaving like this".

I now don't give a shot whether she is racist and disrespectful 99% of the time - because she NEVER does it around me OR my DC's now.

Thankyou CouthyMow I think I will read your post several times as it is inspiring, and I agree with every word. Hopefully this whole thread will mark the end of the old and beginning of a whole new approach. When DH is back I am tempted to get him to read this thread - if only so he can see that his "normal" is not normal at all.

Your DH is mired in what is known as FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) with regards to his mother so will not readily (if perhaps ever) accept what has been written here. He would rather upset you than she; he is very afraid of her and still tacitly wants her approval; approval she will never give.

I would not have them staying with you at Christmas under any circumstances; they will make that time miserable for you all. You're worried about causing your DH pain (this is typical thinking from someone who has fortunately not come from a dysfunctional birth family unit unlike your H); he has completely failed to consider the impact that his toxic mother has had on your family unit.

You need to realise also that toxic people like his mother never ever play by the "normal" rules governing familial relations and such people too never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. it is NOT your fault she is this way, her own birth family did all that damage in her childhood. Emotionally healthy people do not act in the ways that she has done.

I would suggest you read "Toxic Inlaws" written by Susan Forward. Again if she is too toxic for you to deal with, she is certainly too toxic for your young children to have to put up with. You would not tolerate such treatment from a friend, family are truly no different.

Thanks attilaTheMeerkat you are absolutely right, but I wish you werent.

Just had a horrific conversation with DH whick has left me really upset I cant change DH any more than I can change my toxic inlaws and he just cannot see the wood for the trees. The story with the welfare flights is they now want to stay in a nice hotel and pop in for a few hours to see the new baby while he is still away (presumably to justify the "welfare" part of the trip") I said no, under no circumstances do I want that bearing in mind we are not speaking! He said, I just want his Mum to grovel and I am making out she is some kind of ogre.

He literally cannot talk about her, he says "anything else" "whats DS doing" etc it. Its never going to get resolved properly is it As usual I feel unsupported and at a loss as to what to do next. He seems to think the welfare flights thing is about money - eg "Ill give your Dad the extra £30 " Its not - obviously the money that makes me angry but the principle.

Sat here crying because I hate that I have spoken to DH in Afghan and we are both upset and no further on. Only he is not coming home for a hug and chat he is back to work in a dangerous job in a dangerous country and I am yet again the bad guy.

This could wreck us couldnt it? And I just dont know how to stop that from happening. Its like a crash in slow motion.

I will buy the book, we share an Amazon account so may have to set up a new one so as not to let it all kick off again

Thanks to all who have commented.

Firstpost, can you send your dh a message that he picks up on Skype as an im or however you can saying you do love him? This will make you feel better ESP as you are pgnt and don't need the stress. Nor does he I guess.

However, its not going to go away this problem with mil. The advice here is great. If they come, and it sounds like they will, then can you arrange for a friend or family member to be there with you?

You need some strategies in place - so make a list of triggers, like bf.

Oh, I'm going to bf now, I am doing it here as its better for me, so feel free to stay or head for the kitchen - ill give you a shout when I'm done. Then flick on the telly and get your boobs out. My dm thought it was disgusting I bf in my own house on my own sofa! She also thought I should hide in the loo or something. Shortened visits considerably. Just saying....

Ensure other dc has large collection of annoying DVDs ( pingu, peppa pig) and cbeebies to watch, which is always on the tv.

Also, if she says anything rude, say " did you mean to be so rude? Or pardon? With a stare. If she says " only joking" you need a comeback of which I can't think of one, but maybe a few seconds silence then you change the subject to one of immense boredom, perhaps how lovely the midwife was endlessly or how m&s clothing range is so dowdy.

And as soon as dc in bed, you go. Get a telly in the bedroom and a teas made if you have to. Feign delicacy if you have to.

Tell your dh you won't be apologising and everything will be fine as long as she is civil. She doesn't care about upsetting you, so don't worry about upsetting her.

Thanks lavenderhoney

I spoke again to dh when we were both calmer and air is cleared. I have had lots of fantastic advice here and have made some decisions about moving forward. Mainly zero tolerance on racism, anti catholic ism, and "funny jokes" which are actually nasty personal comments.

If this doesn't help I will go no contact with her .. She can come to see new baby when dh back from tour and not before. I will be using your suggestions re early nights and giving a one minute warning for breast feeding then getting on with it.

My DH is not perfect but I love him and he is a good man so I will be damned if I give her the satisfaction of causing more trouble between us.

Thanks again to everyone, you lovely nest of vipers

Glad you spoke to your dh:)

Also you have a plan. Think about it and what you can do to minimise disruption by her. I suggest a tv in the bedroom as if you do go in there to relax ( get away) your other dc will follow you. And my mil was not allowed in the bedroom!

Just remembered a useful reply " we don't talk to each other like that in this house" or " never heard anyone making jokes about that before..."

It sounds like you have a plan- great news.
Someone else has mentioned it up thread but I try as much as I can to dilute the presence of my mil by having friends over for lunch. I often pop out t pick something up. Dh takes her out with the dc to the park etc. this honestly keeps me sane, I cannot tolerate being in her presence.
If things become too much when she is around, pop out and give yourself a few minutes away from her. It helps - trust me

My daughter has a horrible MIL and it has made her very unhappy. I feel very sorry for you. Maybe you would be better off thinking about why she is not your friend. Is she a different class? It looks like it. You didn't marry her and she has to be nice to you so that she can see your children. If she is not nice don't see her. You don't need her in your life. You have your own mother to be with you when you have your baby. I think that you should not see your PIL before your husband comes home. Just say that you do not want to see them at that time well in advance. No negotiation. Are you a Catholic? If you are then making a dig at Catholics is appalling. I became a Catholic at 22 and my Dad made a comment about it. I burst into tears and he felt terrible.
You don't have to go away for Christmas. It would be easier for you to stay at home with just your husband and your children. Your parents could come to you and then there wouldn't be any room for anyone else. We don't have anyone at Christmas we don't want to see anymore than at any other time. If anyone is rude in my house I tell them not to be rude - very quietly. Everyone stops talking and they listen. Most of this is confidence. Your PIL are just bullies and you have to stand up to them. It is difficult but it has to be done. Breast feeding is important and if a person doesn't like it then they have to leave. I breast fed all 4 of my babies and I just laid a muslin cloth nearby. My father just didn't look. Breasts are for feeding babies after all.
Don't bother your husband with this problem. Don't mention it. Just write a letter to your PIL that it won't be convenient for them to come when you've just had your baby. You will send them some pictures. Your own parents are going to be around to look after you so you will be all right. If you appear to be confident and holding everything together they will find something else to do. Writing letters (keep copies) means they will keep off the phone. If they ring be very busy and say I'm fine thank you but I can't talk now. Goodbye.
Don't make your husband choose between you or his mother. There is no choice because he has already chosen you because he married you. It isn't a question of him manning up it is you taking control of your life and this situation. You are not in control because you are so disappointed that your PIL are not nice to you. It is so upsetting but it is your fault. I know that it is hard but if you tell yourself that you are a nice person and they are not nice it won't feel so awful. Look at how many people have supported you and take comfort from this. Instead look forward to your new baby coming and concentrate on that. Put the PIL out of your mind. By the way 30 presents for Christmas is way too many. My parents always discussed with me what I thought would be a suitable gift for each child. Then the gift was a success. I suspect that my parents were much more intelligent people. Easy to say since they both held degrees from Cambridge. Some people are not very bright and try to make up for this by being unkind to others. You are just as important to the world as anyone else. Think that and your confidence will return. It is partly because you're pregnant and that is so tiring so you feel rather low just now. Cheer up and definitely refuse to see these people this Christmas. Next year we'll see is a good phrase.

Honestly, apart from the racism she sounds like mine, except mine is a manipulative martyr. After she was a fricking nightmare once too often I told DH she wasn't coming into my home again and I wasn't visiting her. Ever. He left it at the time, thinking I was just angry (well, yes) and then firmly told me, "well realistically she has to come some time, so when shall we arrange?" a few weeks later. I told him he could choose which arrangements he preferred: new housing for himself or no visits from his mother. He's not raised it again. (I encourage him to visit her, because she was a good mother when he was small, and she's lonely. But her venom that her precious baby now has a family of his own is not my problem, and more importantly not my son's problem.)

You'll find your DH is used to a woman being assertive. In this one situation you need to be that assertive woman. Absolutely encourage him to visit them, but state she has worn out her welcome and abused your hospitality once too often.

And one of your two welfare visits used by them - what the actual fuck? Has he no comprehension that you will then have to deal with these people when he's away, OR that your family money must subsidise your own parents so his can have a jolly? And that's before getting into the fact that it's fraud on the taxpayer, because he freely admits the true welfare visits would be your parents', and he'd have to give them the cash. He's suggesting the taxpayer should pay for expensive return flights so these two unpleasant people can have a free trip to London, when the money is meant to support families of active servicemen, right?

Thanks all some very insightful comments and I had great support on this thread when i started it back in June. Had my baby on Monday, c section so still recovering physically. It all changed since I wrote the first post. FIL diagnosed with brain tumour things look pretty bleak. I have put my feelings in a box and locked them away as my poor dh simply could not cope with even a tiny bit more stress. He goes back to afghan next week. Sadly I suspect my MIL issues are merely on pause but I certainly will do everything I can not to add any fuel to the fire. Thanks Again

Congratulations, firstpost.

Congratulations and sorry to hear about your FIL. Take care of yourself.