DP won't help

[LimeMilkshake]

DP and I have been together for 6 years, married for 3, we have a DS who is 9 months old.

DS is a pretty bad sleeper. There are a few reasons for his bad sleeping including reflux and I think he also has IBS. We're working on how to improve this.

DP and I agreed when I was pregnant that I would do all the nights (between 11pm and 6.30am) as DP works pretty hard. When we agreed this, I had no idea how hard the nights were going to be and how tired I would get. A few months ago we went on holiday (borrowed a friend's house in the UK) and DS would not sleep in a cot at all - he would only sleep on me. I had a complete meltdown after two nights of about 1 hour's sleep and sat sobbing on the floor at the thought of a third night.
DP refused to help on the basis that the usual method of settling (DP uses an exercise ball to bounce on to settle DS) wasn't available. Eventually I rang my mum and she suggested a helpful way of creating a 'bed' that DS was happy enough to sleep as 'well' as usual in. Our holiday continued.

DS' sleep has recently improved to usually only 2-3 wakes between 11pm and 6.30am (he goes to bed at 7pm but often wakes 2-3 times before 11pm). He's EBF at night and feeds twice between 7pm and 7am. Because of this, I feel I can manage ok with the amount of sleep I am getting and DP not helping doesn't matter.

The last few night though he's been all over the place again with being ill and teething so I have been knackered. Last night he woke at 11.10pm and I asked DP to settle him. DP refused because we were already in bed (DP really doesn't like having to get out of bed once in) and it was after 11pm so my 'turn'. DP knows that I will always go after a few minutes because I won't leave DS to cry (plus the more awake DS gets the longer it will take to settle him).

Anyway, that is all backstory. The reason I am posting in Relationships is that I have never got over DP's flat refusal to help. DP is very 'nice' about it, gives me a cuddle and sympathises, but absolutely refuses to actually DO anything. I feel that there has been a fundamental shift in our relationship and I have lost the trust I used to have in DP. I have tried to explain to DP but I don't feel I am taken seriously because nothign changes.

Am I being unreasonable to expect help with the nights on ocassion? What do other people's DP/DHs do?

Sorry this is so long!

How are you OP?
This is crap. ExH was the same. There was no guilt whatsoever, he just wouldn't do anything he didn't want to. He also got sick of me discussing it. The stock answer was 'la la la, I'm not listening', with hands over ears.
I am ashamed to admit hitting him with a coat hanger on one such occasion, through sheer frustration.

I initiated separation, and he acknowledged his laziness and promised to change. I tried reconciliation, but he soon returned to his old ways. Oh yes, and we weren't having sex so he obtained that elsewhere.

I look back and assume a personality disorder maybe. It is neither normal, or acceptable to treat your partner this way. Either way, it finally doesn't matter.

I'm not sure I see another solution to this problem than LTB. Sorry.

My ex was the same, the resentment and exhaustion builds and builds.

There were other issues in the relationship but it wasn't really until I had our second child I realised how selfish he was about sleep. He also point blank refused to put either child to bed or settle either if they woke in the night or get up with them in the morning.

You have to make him understand he has to share the burden or you will leave him.

Haven't read the whole thread but would suggest it's time to introduce DS to bottles/solids and then book a girls' weekend away, leaving DP fully in charge....

He is a shit and he is getting away with it by pretending to be nice and giving you a cuddle. Do you like getting out of bed once in? Does anyone?

DH is self employed and works 12+ hours, 6 days a week and about 4-5 hours on his 'day off'. All our dcs were ebf for over a year but he still got up a lot during the night to settle them or change them or drive them around until they fell asleep. He used to quite often sit with me while I fed them and then put them to bed so I could fall asleep a bit quicker. He did it not because he loves getting out of bed but because he loves me and doesn't want me to be dog tired and he loves our babies and doesn't want them to be upset at night or have a mum who is too tired to move.

Thanks all for your replies and advice. Some of which gave me a good giggle which is definitely a good thing!

So. We had a heart to heart. I started the conversation saying I needed to be honest even if I hurt DPs feelings and afterwards DP said it sounded like I was about to announce a break up. While I would never cry wolf on something like that, I think it did make DP immediately take me seriouly.

A few things came out such as how DP thinks I can settle DS 'so much more easily'. I replied that if he looked at the sleep log (I write down Ds' feeds etc so I don't have to try to remember the times in my sleepy state) then when I am up for 2.5 hours in the middle of the night it's clearly not because I am having an 'easy time'!! I also pointed out that all our friends with children around this age share much more of the settling and maybe I hadn't helped myself by willing to be martyr-ish over making sure DP got sleep for work.

End result: I think DP understands better that it's not all roses for me settling DS and sometimes I need him to just hold a wailing DS for an hour so I can get some sleep. I need to be more clear about asking for help and telling DP how well the nights are going (or not).
DP is going to do all non-feed settling for one weekend night.

Feel much happier about this

Glad you're happy with that. TBH, one w/e night is absolutely minimal.

So, he says he understands, like he has done all the time, but what is going to change in HIS behaviour or his attitude?

To be honest, to me this would be a deal breaker. Not just the refusal to help, but the selfish attitudes and the cold hardheartedness. He still sounds like a shit. Sorry.

When you wrote that he gives you a cuddle, sympathises but refuses to help, i felt a little bit sick :(

So you spill your heart to him about how hard you are finding it and he suggests ways in which you can do things differently? Fuck me sideways, are you his wife or his domestic help?

He sounds manipulative and controlling, he agrees to do one night? ONE night? how long will that last - and you are happy with it?? He has you right where he wants you doesn't he.

Is he controlling in other aspects of the relationship? Of course you'll say no, hes a brilliant dad and partner, because he has you in his thrall.

I am usually quite vociferous on here about seeing the partners side of things, but I can see right through him!

Best of luck Lime I hope he does shift his attitude and help more. This is my biggest concern about my imminent arrival tbh.

I've just read the book "baby-proof your marriage" and its fab. I'm hoping I can get DH to read it too. It might help you both?

Thank goodness you feel he is beginning to listen, OP.
I felt close to tears on your behalf, reading your first post.
Sleep deprivation since having a baby is the hardest thing i've had to cope with in my entire life, and without the endless support of my partner, I feel sure i would have slipped into PND.

I am gobsmacked that your husband can have watched you weep with sheer exhaustion and dread of the next night, and STILL refused to help.
Cruel and selfish in the extreme.

I really hope he comes to his senses and realises that this is his baby, and his responsibility too.
If not, you may need to have a serious think about how you move forward. This is not acceptable on any level.

I'm glad you are feeling better and have had the talk though I would agree that you're not out of the woods yet. You do need to make sure he sticks to the one night he has not agreed to - no pleading that he has a headache/was out late etc and can you just do this one? You should also look at getting a lie in at least one weekend morning as well (don't know if you already do this but you haven't mentioned it).

I agree with Jux that, really, one night is the absolute minimum. DO NOT now feel that having asked for this one concession, you can't ask for any other 'help' . In a good partnership you would be able to renegotiate things like this whenever necessary due to the changing needs of one or both people.

He is not actually acting in a nice way is he, he isn't doing anything! How someone could ignore their sobbing partner and their crying baby is beyond me.

"A few things came out such as how DP thinks I can settle DS 'so much more easily'."

Of course. Because he has never tried. He needs to try. Otherwise he will give you this nonsense for as long as he can get away with it.

You will always be the one to bring up baby, and he wont muck in with anything because "you are so much better at it". How would you feel if he said the same with cooking? Hoovering? Doing laundry? Taking the rubbish out? It is nothing but a lazy excuse.

YOU need to be more clear in asking for help? So the reason he has not helped is down to you? You have not been clear enough? Or asked in the right way?

You sobbing on the floor asking for help is not enough?

I agree that he sound controlling and manipulative. In addition to cold, hardhearted and cruel.

What he has shown you, really, is that being a single mum is not so hard. You are already doing it on your own.

I have seen that book mentioned before, remembering, I'll give it a read.

LEM it was me that offered to try to communicate better. I feel that resolutions should always have a commitment from both sides, so that was my offering to help move things forward.

Yes, he probably is manipulative and I fall for it. You are all correct that what happened on holiday is not acceptable, but I'm not willing to write off the relationship. In all other respects we compliment each other really well, this is the first time something like this has happened which is why it has thrown me so much. Having said that, I'm happy to take a step at a time and give DP a chance to start to put things right. I'm going back to work in a few months and my job is just as stressful as DPs... I will insist on splitting the load equally.

In a good relationship, you shouldn't have to 'negotiate' anything. You should be able to say that you're having a bit of trouble with something, and your partner should immediately be offering help. You should just be able to chat. It's not a war where someone has to win.

I'm afraid your relationship doesn't sound like it is anything like this, or even has the possibility of becoming like it. It does sound like a war, and he's made the tiniest little concession - but he either won't do it for long or he'll make you pay in some other way.

Another perspective on the help that I had at each birth. I did the weekday feeds, DH helped or took over the weekend feeds. We had twins for the second birth so he had to help, he took one I took the other, both bottle fed. During the week after the twins were born, if DS1 woke in the night, DH always went to see to him and didn't disturb me.

I didn't have to negotiate this, he just did it naturally because he knew how much work it was. You have had 9 months of sleep deprivation, I think he needs to do more to help, let you have some lie ins, take the baby for a walk while you sleep. Also watch out the non-feed settling doesn't turn into 'He needs a feed' so that you end up doing it. He seems to regard looking after the baby as your job, he needs to alter his thinking or you will be left doing all the 'difficult' bits whilst he does the fun ones.

On a practical note, you both need to think about why he is waking so much and what you can both do to reduce it down so that sleep improves, especially for when you go back to work. It is so hard in the short term but it pays off in the end.

Sorry on the first sentence it should read 'During the months after the twins were born...

One night? Fucking hell he's a prince isn't he?

Thats BS. He should be doing both weekend nights as a minimum.

I recommend night weaning btw. DS2 didn't start sleeping through until night weaned. That was at a year. Before that I was the one getting up the most as feeding him was the quickest way to settle him. Once that stopped working I weaned him and retired totally from getting up at night. As far as I was concerned I had done my time it was DH's turn. He started sleeping through in the main about six weeks after night weaning. If hes up crying for 2.5 hours, doesnt sound like feeding is helping so wean him and let DH take over.

Dear OP,

Your post made me feel I wanted to hit something. Someone. Him.

How utterly selfish is he? This totally wipes out anything 'nice' about him as a partner. This obliterates his good side. You are absolutely right to be upset/angry/outraged. You have feelings for God's sake. Of course you are so knackered and upset already it has made you feel powerless. 'Powerless' seems to be where he wants you. This isn't love!

You were pregnant when you both optimistically outlined how you would share the care when the baby was born. Nobody could predict how it would actually turn out and in fact all best laid plans are completely turned upside down by the fact that you have a very wakeful baby for whatever reason. He must see that everything changed and that you cannot be 'held' to an agreement you both made before either of you knew what parenthood actually entailed.

All this is obvious. Anyone who refuses to see this is a sadist. Trying to hold you to your side of the pre-birth bargain is cruel and sadistic as well as ridiculous. It is astonishing that somebody who is supposed to love and support you can sit back and watch you suffer with no conscience at all. In fact he doles out cuddles to 'sympathise' with you. It's unthinkable! You must feel you have had a child with Hannibal Lecter.

Coping strategies for the short term: I agree with Snazzy - go to your mum's for a few nights with DS, because there you have someone who is prepared to care for YOU.

Medium term: you need some space to think about this 'fundamental shift' in your relationship, because that is what has happened. You became a mother and your DP seems to have made a fundamental shift in the power balance between you. In fact in his eyes, it seems, there is no power balance: he wants it all and you should have none. Not a pleasant thought.

Long term: I agree with AF - what a cunt. Unfortunately in becoming a parent, he has shown his true colours. Whatever you thought he felt about you before, he has shown that he thinks that when a woman has a baby she is in his control and if she won't be controlled then she has to be taught some kind of lesson until she comes into line.

It is not unusual sadly, for this to happen at or near the birth of your first child. You sound utterly shocked that this is happening to you. You should be, because what he is doing is utterly shocking. I feel for you because I can see my own situation 5 years ago in what you describe. Hold on to that feeling of shock and find your outrage. Refuse to go along with his worldview. Tell your mum and friends what is going on. Get your mum and your friends to support you and tell him in no uncertain terms that his behaviour is unacceptable.

Good luck OP. You need to find some strength from somewhere to utterly resist this treatment. You are a human being. He is your partner, he is supposed to love, respect and support you. He is not giving you any of these things.

"LEM it was me that offered to try to communicate better. I feel that resolutions should always have a commitment from both sides, so that was my offering to help move things forward"

I don't understand, i read back but maybe you are not addressing me? Anyway, i read that as YOU had to ask for the conversation, YOU then had to make it sound like YOU were the one making concessions to communication?

He sounds quite weak actually, your DH. Tell him to man the fuck up and step up to the plate - pardon the cliche over load but seriously. Unless he is a neurosurgeon or works on the hadron collider, he doesn't work so hard that a few nights broken sleep will kill him. What is it that he does that is so precious he can't help out of a night?

I know how tough it is to have to do all the night feeds etc because i exclusively breast fed a very demanding DD, we are talking hourly feeds - i don't know how i got through it, well i do - because my DP used to bloody well help me in other ways - to the point he would get the baby out of her cot for me so that i didn't have to get out of bed. Now you might argue that it doesn't take two to feed a baby, knowing he was there to do those little things made all the difference. When i switched to bottle feeding, we still both did it together.

This is so lop-sided. Great that you've had a chat but all the work is on you, and the responsibility for making things work is on you. How did that happen?

You shouldn't have to ask for concessions. He should be desperately trying to find ways to help you. He should be worried about the fact that you are getting so little sleep. Where is the care?

He's being hugely selfish. I am a sahm and Bf, and essentially i do the night wakings because they involve a feed. BUT if we're having a bad night because of illness/teething /whatever, then he absolutely helps, regardless of whether he is working the next day. I'd say that was fairly normal tbh.

What if you had another child? Would you be dealing with both??

Sorry, missed update!

Make sure things do change - don't let it slide for an easy life.

Hmmm, my ds didn't sleep through until he was nearly 2.5 ( and we had to get a sleep councillor involved ) dh didn't get up much , but as> he worked shifts then he would see to ds if I was asleep iyswim.

But, when dd came along dh announced that as Id done most of the night waking's with ds, it was his turn with dd. And he did. Because we are a team. < of Corse she then slept through from 5 weeks