Is this inappropriate or are my hormones going haywire?

[NoisyBrain]

First ever MN post - be gentle with me!
Sorry this may be an essay, but I want to give enough context and not drip feed.

Been with DP for nearly 5 years. I would say we have a good, healthy relationship. I'm 26 weeks pg and he has been really lovely and supportive all the way through, practically and emotionally (tells me how gorgeous I am etc etc).

Yesterday, for reasons best known to my subconscious brain (the noisy part!), I snooped through DP's Facebook messages. He has given me NO cause to want to do this, I've never done it before and I genuinely don't know why I did - unless you count the horrible dream I had the other night where he dumped me?!

Anyway, I saw a message thread between him and one of his female friends and decided, stupidly, to read it. Most of the thread was exactly as I'd have expected. DP is naturally quite charming and flirty with women and it doesn't bother me at all eg. he calls my friends things like 'sweetie' or 'lovely girl' in front of me and hugs them, and always puts kisses and smileys on Facebook posts to them. The thing that started to grate with me on this particular thread with his friend, and I hope I can explain this clearly, was that each time a new chain of messages started it seemed to be HIM starting it off in a flirty tone, rather then say, them having general chitchat and a flirty comment cropping up along the way.

So, we come to the message that has lead me to join Mumsnet after months of lurking and ask for input from the wise ladies within. One day last March DP had started a conversation with this friend by telling her he'd had a dream about her the night before, which was nice (his words). She asked what it was about and he said something along the lines of 'Err, well let's just say you were great :-)'. To be fair to her, she just replied saying something about how he'd made her blush, but by now I felt like I'd been punched in the stomach. The most recent messages between them were from a few months ago where she sent him her new mobile number (I'm assuming he'd asked for it) and him telling her about the baby. Basically back to the kind of tone of the earlier stuff.

DP happened to come back from the shops just as I'd finished reading, so of course knew something was wrong. I told him what I'd done. I apologised for snooping but said what I'd found had punished me big time and I wish I hadn't. He was visibly shaken and told me there is nothing to worry about wrt this friend, it was just their usual 'banter'. I said that surely he'd feel the same way about the 'dream' message if it was the other way around. He agreed he would and was doing his best to reassure me there's nothing going on. As it happens I believe him, in that I don't think he's actually up to anything with her, but his idea of what constitutes acceptable 'banter' with a friend clearly differs from mine quite drastically!!

What bothers me is 1) the content of the message and 2) the fact that HE instigated the conversation about it. I don't care if he has a dirty dream about someone else, it happens to us all, but to private message them specifically to tell them about it AND add the little detail about how great it was? That's crossing a line IMO, regardless of whether or not I should have been in blissful ignorance of it. If SHE had started the subject I don't think I'd have been half as bothered (subject to his response).

DP knows my XH cheated on me, that's basically why we divorced. Much of my ex's affair was conducted via text and DP and I have had MANY conversations about my issues with trusting people, especially wrt to being hyper-sensitive over things like text and private messages. Ffs, he went through it with his ex too. I feel so hurt and I've been tearful on and off since last night, though trying to hide it. I think as far as DP is concerned we've discussed it now and he's trying to act as normal, being all lovely. But I can't act normal. Noisy brain is now wondering if he's been texting her this kind of flirty shit as well...

So, am I over-reacting? I'm 39, I'm too old for this kind of crap and I hate drama, but my hormones are making me feel like a deranged teenager :-( Please feel free to pass me a grip if needed. Help.

Obviously, it's difficult to tell, but from what you've written it sounds as though your reaction has given him a bit of a shock. Did he say anything about changing his behaviour?

I think if it's still bothering you, you need to talk to him again.

I certainly don't think you are over-reacting.

No you're not over-reacting. The content of those messages from him was extremely inappropriate and he would think exactly the same if you'd been writing them.

The reason this probably didn't develop into anything was because of the actions of his friend - not him.

FWIW, I think your dream was your subconscious telling you that something's not quite right about your partner's views on fidelity. It's amazing how many times people who've never snooped before in their entire lives, end up finding something when they feel compelled to look.

If he is seriously claiming that this was just 'banter' I think you've got a problem that needs serious discussion.

This was controlled by her actions, not his.

(When I said, "a bit of a shock" I meant, "a bit of a shock that was needed that his flirty ways have gone a bit too far").

Meh. It wouldn't bother me.

Thanks ladies, nice to get some reassurance.

The friend in question was in a relationship when DP and I got together (he met her through the boyfriend), so who knows if under other circumstances they'd have hooked up. She's a lot younger than him (by around 20 years) and I guess I'd always thought that his feelings towards her were more 'paternal' than anything else iyswim.

I agree that he did seem shocked, and that we do need to clear the air properly as there's an obvious atmosphere atm and it's giving me a headache. I'd just rather be feeling a bit less tearful when I broach the subject again!

Interesting point about the subconscious mind. Who knows eh.

I would be upset.

If you wouldnt say it or do it with your partner looking over your shoulder then you are in dodgy territory IMO.

Are you comfortable with him continuing messaging this friend in this way? Not sure I would be :(

You're not overreacting. Your DP is chatting inappropriately and 'banter' really doesn't cover it if you're both about the same age. I'm sure he does seem shocked. Most people do when caught out. I'm assuming that this baby is going to be your first... that's a good opportunity for everyone to grow up a bit. I think his flirty 'sweetie darling' ways and the kisses on messages etc have to stop.

If I am utterly truthful, I flirt with my male old friends and they with me from time to time, compliment me occasionally, have even been known to make a slightly inappropriate suggestion (never taken up I hasten to add). The difference is that we don't Facebook this type of stuff, it happens rarely, perhaps on a night out, partners may be there, but there's the odd little remark or flirt which alludes to the fact that we are all still attractive people. I don't find this outrageous, but I wouldn't write it down! I also have never given my husband any cause for concern about unfaithfulness ever. I'm not sure what to suggest, I would be upset by seeing this in black and white, but can't say that in 20 years, I have never made or have chatted in a slightly flirty way with old friends. BUT- if my husband said you are making me uncomfortable or felt it was too far, of course I would stop immediately. Sorry you read this, there's possibly nothing in it but it has now disturbed you.

Ok, I just read the bit about the age difference. Definitely less ok then, not the banter of old friends. I wouldn't be so happy about this as it does come across more like him hitting on her, or at least trying the waters. Sorry.

A 20 year age difference - large enough to have the OP thinking of him as a father-figure to this woman who is, what, late teens, early twenties? - is positively ikky. We're in 'Dirty Old Man' territory.

I would find inappropriate too, both as his partner and the recipient of the message and regardless of ages.

Not sure what I'd do in your place.

It may well be that he isn't actively cheating, but who knows where such messages might lead if the other person takes them seriously.

And, as others said, maybe your subconscious is trying to tell you something.

Hes being a creep. If shes 20 years younger than him, remembering what I was like at that age when confronted by creepy older man behaviour, she was probably too shocked/shy/embarrassed to tell him to feck off, which is what I would do now.

Depends on whether you can tolerate and laugh off being with a creep.

I think those messages probably made her feel v uncomfortable too, but if she's a young woman she might lack the assertiveness to tell him to back off and stop sending her messages about his dreams of having sex with her. An older woman might have ripped him up for bog paper.

What's his relationship like with her partner then? It's pretty creepy and disrespectful hitting on your mate's partner like that. I can't imagine he'd be too impressed if he found those messages from your partner, would he?

It's so disrespectful to you and it must be horrible to think that he' getting a reputation for being an old perv and disrespecting the woman who's carrying his child. This young woman probably feels really sorry for you.

If I were you I would buy Shirley Glass's Not Just Friends - it describes how easy it is for people to cross boundaries and go down the slippery slope into an affair and has advice about how to affair proof your relationship - which basically is to look at and address one's vulnerabilities and issues as well as establish firm boundaries.

I agree with the poster who says it was probably your gut instinct that prompted you to snoop around.

I also wonder if the main method of communication has moved to texting - if he is really serious about making amends then he needs to hand over his mobile there and then, without delay so that you can check how far its gone.

OK so we've talked again (where I completely failed to remain composed and now have streaky makeup, but hey).

I told him I was still upset about the message, that I found it hugely wrong and inappropriate and that our ideas of acceptable banter were clearly miles apart. I asked if he had been texting her, he said no and reiterated that there is nothing going on. I said I didn't think there was, but he must appreciate how, after everything I went through with my ex, this has reopened a painful wound.

I'm not sure what else was said, my head's a bit jumbled, but he's given me all the reassurances of his love etc. I'm willing to leave it at that for now, as I couldn't have made my feelings any clearer and time alone will tell if he's taken them on board.

For whoever asked, the friend is around 25 and split with her partner at least 2 years ago. She's part of a group of 'young'uns' DP became friendly with when he split with his ex - I think they were the ex's (much) younger sister's friends (male and female). DP went through a sort of 'second youth' midlife crisis after the split, so I genuinely don't think he sees flirting with a 20-something as 'creepy', even if it is a bit!

Thanks for the support

He's 45? He's going to have to be careful. I knew someone rather like him - sad middle-aged bloke who had no personal boundaries, thought he was Mr Gorgeous and flirted with all the ladies. He ended up getting a warning at work for sexual harassment...

I presume you wanted more reassurance than 'there's nothing going on' didn't you?

Surely that should be a given when you're carrying his child?

What he doesn't seem to accept publicly is that this was extremely dodgy behaviour, or why on earth he felt the need to do it.

Privately of course he would have known this was crossing a line.

No-one's that stupid after all.

Doesn't it make you wonder where this would have led if she'd been up for it?

I think you need to try not to worry about it and believe him. Sometimes, people are stupid. Especially men. Say inappropriate things without really thinking it through, and once you've FB messaged someone, you can't retrieve it. He is obviously the kind of person that has slightly different boundaries wrt terms of endearment etc., and that likely means he has slightly different ideas about what's 'normal acceptable' for content of messages. Now you've told him, I'm sure he'll be more aware of how upsetting you might find something that he likely considered to be harmless, even funny.

I think some people's 'advice' has been pretty harsh considering they only have a pretty vague sketch of your DP and obviously you know him better than anyone. I don't think looking at his FB page came out of you having a 'gut instinct', sometimes, we're all a bit nosey if we get the opportunity and sometimes we find stuff we'd rather we hadn't seen! (I've found deeply irritating messages to my MIL apologising for my 'attitude' on my DP's phone, can't say anything though )

The last thing you need at 26 weeks is a group of MNers trying to freak you out that your DP's thoughtlessness at worst IMO, is a sign of some attempt at instigating affairs with younger women, and that he's an old perv. You know him, you know his idiosyncrasies, and being pregnant and vulnerable can make you more sensitive to things you may, in 'ordinary life', think of as not too much to fret about.

Good luck to you.

I'm sure he does love you, and that is reassuring for him to tell you that but, sadly, he would probably love to have sex with the woman in her 20s if he could only get the chance, although he might deny it. But then, lots of attached men would probably love to have sex with other women, female work colleagues, wife's friends, his friends' wives, neighbour's wife and so on, if it was handed on a plate. It's in the nature of men.
If you need an intimate relationship with a man you have to face the facts of what goes on in most of their heads. It's either that or live alone, or with your mother or your aunt.

But if wanting to flirt with women and touch them and have sex with them is to be called 'dirty' then 'a dirty old man' is only 'a dirty young man' who's got a good bit older in years and probably deteriorated physically. The only thing that might leave more space for 'purer' thoughts is that their sexdrive has fizzled out earlier than some.
Is a 16-year old boy oggling lustfully at a young woman's body any less 'dirty' than a 56-year old doing exactly the same thing for exactly the same reason?
The term 'dirty old man' is ageist and i don't think your partner should ever be called that. Many men are 'dirty' all their lives! Nothing changes except that the years go by and they get older. But their thoughts about women remain much the same.

Lord, the excuses some people will make for men.

I don't know a single person who wouldn't know that messaging a someone of the opposite sex about a dream involving great sex with that person, meant anything other than the obvious.

Let alone a 45 year old who's been cheated on himself and is with a pregnant partner whose ex did just the same.

Jesus wept

The last thing you, OP, need at this stage is to worry if your OH is faithful and how much respect he has for you.
Sadly, promises of love mean squat.
He should reassure you with actions.

Obviously it's inappropriate. Obviously everyone in OP's position would be pissed off. But maybe, just maybe, he doesn't actually realise how inappropriate. Ask him directly. Did he realise how it might sound? Does he realise that calling everyone 'sweetie' etc might irritate quite a few people or sound inappropriate? If he does, then start from there. If he genuinely doesn't, and that is entirely possible, then OP you are the only one in the position to gauge whether he is being genuine about this.

Really?

You genuinely think a 45 year old attached bloke might not realise it's inappropriate to message a 25 year old single woman telling her he had a dream about having sex with her and that she was great in the sack?

Completely lacking in decorum and indicates a lack of respect for you, and a massive ego and immaturity from him. He needs to reassess what's acceptable and what's not.