"if someone was violent to me I'd be wondering what I'd done to provoke them"

[itreallyhappened]

This is what my dad said to me at the weekend

It's 7 months since my husband was violent to me (first and only time) and I posted about it a lot at the time www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1592616-Shocked-by-dhs-angry-violent-outburst-What-to-do?pg=8

I've always been able to talk to my dad and we have a lovely relationship.

H and I have struggled to move on from this and whilst he hasn't been violent or angry to me since I just feel differently. DH has moved out for a bit as I want some space to think about the relationship. My dad thinks leaving dh will be a terrible mistake as he is a "great guy". I said to my dad "but how can you think someone who put their hands round your daughters throat is a good guy?" and he said "well, this is just me love but If it were me I'd be wondering what I'd done to make the other person so angry". I told my dad I think no matter how angry I'd made someone it doesnt excuse that and he just said "well that is me love, that's just how I would feel".

I feel really hurt and upset by this. I am glad he forgave DH for this one off horrible thing as having the support of dad while we've tried to make it work has been important but I feel devastated that my dad thinks I should settle for this and thinks I'd be making a "terrible mistake" if I left.

I would be inclined to say 'I don't really want to be around you now Dad, because I feel very hurt and let down by you not supporting me' and if he doesn't like that, tell him you 'can't help it, that's just the way you feel'.

My dad would be devastated if I said that to him

And selfishly I really need my parents at the moment and don't want to create any more fall outs while I am in the midst of one with my Dh!

What do you mean you can't bear to think that's what he was thinking?

What is 'that'?

I think most people are guilty of victim-blaming TBH. Certainly more do than don't, and it's a rational behaviour in a violent world - realising that actually nothing the victim does has an effect on the perpetrator's actions and that no, life isn't fair and people don't get their 'just rewards' is a pretty scary viewpoint to hold. It makes you realise just how vulnerable you are.

It's much more comforting to believe in straightforward cause and effect and that somehow people are the architects of their own misfortunes.

It's an erroneous way of thinking and quite damaging, but it doesn't make the holder of such views misogynistic or abusive (even though the vuews themselves often uphold misogyny and abuse); it just makes the holder misguided and in good company with about 75% of the rest of the population.

Your father is shifting the blame on you.

Since you were raised by a man who is able to hold those beliefs, and is willing speak them out loud to his own daughter despite the obvious hurt it will cause, I am not surprised that you have, as a grown up, accepted a less than stellar man as your own partner.

Both of these men think little of the hurt they cause you, itreallyhappened. And you deserve better treatment than that.

Sorry to post and run - when my mum first found out about my ex's violence she said "I think your dad might have been like that with me if I behaved like you...." SHOCK.

But actually it really helped me see what was going on around me.

I had grown up in a house with an emotionally abusive bully and no-one had ever cottoned on - my mum was very compliant and submissive. And it was no coincidence that my framework for a relationship was an abusive one.

My dad was charming, funny, intelligent, respected. But also a bully and only loved conditionally for my childhood. In his defence, he changed when he was poorly at the end of his life, however I was already disastrously married by then.

Don't know what to say except imo your dad has a strange idea of what being a father is if his own daughter tells him she has been assaulted and that is his response. 7 months' ago might have ended tragically. I appreciate you weighed up what the risks were of trying to work through this. I am not criticising your decision.

May I just say, if you have had second thoughts, but now fear it is water under the bridge, too far past that one episode to seem like a rational choice to finish now? Please don't feel you have to soldier on just so that everyone else feels comfortable. Life isn't about faking happiness so that others around you aren't 'let down' by you being unhappy or scared or walking on eggshells.

'My dad would be devastated if I said that to him'

It would give him some insight into how you feel, then. I don't see why his feelings have to be respected when yours aren't.

"'My dad would be devastated if I said that to him'

It would give him some insight into how you feel, then. I don't see why his feelings have to be respected when yours aren't."

I agree with Snazzy. He said that to YOU, and YOU are devastated. How come he can't be devastated, or even worry about his daughter (surely the typical condition of parenthood?), but your feelings aren't important?

Sorry but I think your Dad is teaching you very nicely that the feelings of men come before the feelings of women. Not only in what he said, which was effectively think about what you did to provoke your "great guy" but also in the fact you don't feel you can tell him how he is being unsupportive in doing this.

Why did he even need to say that to you? He didn't. He also knows that you won't call him on it because you respect his feelings. He, on the other hand does not respect yours.

I would also look at how you may be modifying your behaviour around your H too since this violent incident. Yes it was only once but it was only 7 months ago. The spotlight is still on him. He'll be on his best behaviour. You will also be wary (whether conciously or sub-conciously) and probably trying not to provoke another incident. This type of language from your father is even more damaging in reinforcing that your behaviour should somehow be modified to prevent your husband's violent behaviour.

What would your Dad of said had your DH killed you....."well she must of provoked him" ?

badinage - I meant that if my dad genuinely thought I should think about what I did to provoke DH then I would be seriously devastated.

I think a lot of It really is about the fact my dad could NEVER have been alone whereas my mum is a really strong woman. So I think my dad thinks if I leave I will crumble and be a lonely old maid for the rest of my days. Whereas my mum thinks I will be a great co-parent, have a fulfilling life, friendships, careers, hobbies, and find a new partner. I guess in that respect my dad is very worried about me splitting up with DH. He was visibly shocked when I told him I could pay the mortgage alone and stay in the house with dc. "yes dad, you raised an independent one"!

I did tell him at the time that I was bothered by what he said but he just said "well that's just how I'd feel" and then proceeded to tell me what a great guy DH was and although he was shocked by what he'd done he was worried I'd be making a massive mistake if I left him. I guess that made me feel betrayed. It's lose lose I guess cause I don't want my parents to 'hate' dh (whether we stay together or co-parent this will solve nothing) but I also want to feel like they were at least a little angry with him for what he did...

I think you need to clarify with your father what he meant by what he said then.

If he meant that he believed that something you did might have provoked anger in your husband, that's not an unreasonable statement on its own because that's possible. But it seems odd if he believes like you that the anger was caused by drink/illness/medication.

If he meant that he believed that something you did provoked the anger and the violence then that's entirely unreasonable and is indefensible.

This is a really important distinction. Anger is an emotion that we are all capable of feeling and in some cases it's understandable and righteous, especially if someone has hurt us. Using violence to discharge that anger is never acceptable or defensible though.

I'm surprised given what you've said about your dad that he's saying these things. Is there a bigger context associated with your break-up that he might be aware of, but doesn't want to let on that he suspects?

Maybe you should ask

''What would someone have to do to make you angry enough to try to kill them, to literally put your arms round their neck and strangle them?''

....... ''Because I didn't do any of those things''.

Or ''What do you think you would have to do that would make it all right for someone to try and strangle you?''

(I'm counting on the fact your dad does not have a violent history himself)

I guess your dad likes your H and it's hard for him to imagine him doing this unless in extreme circumstances. It is very hard to imagine someone you think you know and see as a 'stand up guy' doing something so violent except in extremis.

Still hurtful that he would think you'd provoked it by doing whatever it is he thinks is so bad to excuse it. Especially if he knows about the drink etc. Maybe he felt like hitting your mum at some point because of 'nagging' or a bad patch. dunno.

"Realising that actually nothing the victim does has an effect on the perpetrator's actions and that no, life isn't fair and people don't get their 'just rewards' is a pretty scary viewpoint to hold. It makes you realise just how vulnerable you are. It's much more comforting to believe in straightforward cause and effect and that somehow people are the architects of their own misfortunes." Dahlen

^this^

It's more comfortable to rationalise an incident so it keeps your old world view in tact, even if it means hurting and blaming someone else, even your own daughter.

But that's probably not much help to you, as you're hurting and your dad has basically said he thinks you might be to blame, which is at best, stupid and not thought through, at worst maybe he's set a pattern through your life of a not nice man.

Did you tell your mum what he said? And how it's made you feel?

What a vile thing to say
It wasnt your fault.
And of course you feel differently about your H now. Assaulting someone tends to have that effe on the victim :(

There is a reason you are with a man that thinks he can hit women.

MIt's because you were raised by one.

It's no accident that we fall into these things, we are prepared somehow by our childhood.

A NORMAL parent would want to tear the fucking head off anyone that hurt their child.

A NORMAL parent, not a super human one.

You may work through this with your H, you may not, but know that NOTHING you EVER did made him hit you. HE CHOSE TO HIT YOU. Active choice to do so.

No-one has that right. Anyone who agrees with him, in the cold hard light of day needs to be shunted off to the sidelines so that they don't do you anymore psychological harm.

Your eyes are open now, you can't trust your dad. I would be surprised if your H earned his trust back either, but if he tries hard enough, it's possible. It may be that you NEVER regain that trust in him.

No woman is EVER wrong for leaving a man that hits her. No person should stay with someone who uses violence as a method of control against them.

This was not your fault lovey, none of it.

May I suggest that you read Lundy Bancroft's Why Does He Do That? It might help

Everyone who has ever been abused can say that their 'other half' was popular, that no-one would ever believe they were capable of it, likeable, one of the good ones....

If they were violent to EVERYONE, they'd never get near a living soul, would they?

your H was not abusive once. he hit you once. I am willing to bet that he's used other tactics of abuse on you.

Hissy is completely and utterly right.

I had to go through this painful process of realising that my dad was not what I thought he was. And it was certainly no accident I ended up with an abusive husband.

I also agree that Lundy Bancroft will help make sense of this.

People like that don't understand that there is a difference between provoking someone to anger and violence.

Plenty of people can be provoked to even quite extreme anger without being violent to close family members or those less physically strong than themselves.

Okay it may be different if the violent person is responding to abuse themselves, but I think a partner would have to be bloody abusive & leaving a person with few options to justify violence over any other response (such as walking away, leaving permanently if need be, screaming a pile of vitriol, whatever - anything that's not knocking another person about if that can be avoided).

My mum holds the same views. That a woman should stay married no matter what. When i was being bullied at school my dad asked what id done to provoke them.

There was a Dispatches programme (it was on sometime in the last couple of years) where a woman tried to leave her violent partner and her dad told her to go back to him because she was bringing shame on the family. her violent husband set light to her in the garden and she has to spend the rest of her life in a nursing home.
On the programme her dad stood there crying and playing the caring father. It made me sick. I had to leave the living room otherwise i would have put my foot through the screen.
I agree with the other posters. Why should you spare your dads feelings. He hasnt spared yours.

I don't think your dad was right at all but there is another thread on here at the moment where a woman who admits slapping her husband is being excused for it because she was 'obviously provoked' into it.

"Please don't think ill of yourself because you slapped him, I think anyone would lash out when verbally assaulted like that"

"When you are being needled into reacting violently, then it is game over"

"Of course it isn't OK to slap someone, but it sounds like he was trying to provoke you so he could tell you that you were 'mental'. I think it's justifiable loss of control."

The double standards do my head in. If a woman posted that she had caught her husband drinking a bottle of vodka when he'd obviously been having a drinking problem for quite a while, that they had a row where it escalated to namecalling and she called him a drunk and that he was failing to solve his problem by sneaking drinks, and that he hit her in return - she would have nothing but support on here and rightly so. She would not be blamed for causing his drinking problem and called vile because she reached breaking point and called him a few names.

I'm so glad you are working things out with your husband but I think you need to set your dad straight that there is nothing you could do which would justify him raising his hand to you - that if he felt sufficiently provoked enough for him to do so, he could just walk away. That you need your dad to stand up for you in this regard and say that it's never acceptable.

You could show your dad this website OP.

everydayvictimblaming.com/