Perspective needed on relationship with dad

[MillyMollyMandy78]

Please take the time to offer me some advice/ support on the following matter cos I am really hurt at moment. Nobody in RL is able to relate to my situation. I have also posted several times on the stately homes thread, but my posts either get completely ignored or one answer at most - possibly because everyone has their own difficulties, which I understand.

My mother is a narcissist and she has been emotionally abusive throughout my life. I won't go into all the details as I have posted several threads previously about this. I went no contact with mum a few weeks ago. She and my dad are still together and dad is a classic enabler.

As far as he is concerned she can do no wrong. Our feelings don't get taken into account, the world revolves round mum. We are expected to just tow the line, put our feelings into account and put her first.

I love my dad and I believe he is a good person. However, he did not protect us as kids and has made things worse for us in the past. I suggested meeting up with dad twice recently and he said he couldn't cos it would be too difficult/ awkward if I saw him without mum. Obviously I felt hurt by this - in some ways it is tho he is siding with mum by refusing to see me.

On the other hand, I always call my parents every sunday and I haven't done since going NC with mum. Partly because I feel it might be awkward for dad/ if she answers the phone, and partly because I have been hurt and feel i have already made an effort to meet up/ chat. I also feel that perhaps dad should be the one to make the effort, as I have always shown him full support whenever he needed it, particularly the past couple of months when things have been really hard. Dad has told us countless times when we were kids that if he and mum split he would never want to see us again and had no intention to continue contact. However, I know that it is me that has stopped calling and mum will prob be turning him against me too.

So any ideas on what I should do? I do not want to confront dad (for several reasons I don't want to go into on here). Also how do I feel ok with not being a priority in dad's world? I just feel let down and abandoned.

Sorry to hear about your situation... I had to read your sentence three times about your dad saying he wouldn't continue contact with you if he & your mum split up. That must be incredibly hard.
By the sound of things he isn't going to be the dad you hope for (& deserve). You need to come to terms with the fact that you won't change him, you can only change the way respond & feel about him. I think you need to get professional help to work through your feelings & find ways to move forward, i'd recommend talking therapies to do this.

Dad has told us countless times when we were kids that if he and mum split he would never want to see us again and had no intention to continue contact

With that sentence and the rest about him not preventing your mother from harming you - why do you still think he's a good father?

He's not a good father, he's just as bad as your mother. As hard as it is to accept, I think you need to cut them both out.

Thank you for your replies. I was always a daddy's girl as a kid. I have always said tha dad is a loyal family man. But I was kidding myself to a point where I believed it all. But over the last few weeks I have had several memories come back about things he said or did that I must have blocked out.

Yet I do believe dad is a good man but he is very weak regarding my mum. He is also very unhappy and abused himself, tho he still chooses to sta with my mum.

Yoni, why do I think he is a good father - I suppose the honest answer is that he is the best we ever had. The only parent to have conversations with, share a joke or just show us any love or kindness.

Milly I was on your last thread and on stately homes.

From what I know this kind of thing (remembering details over time) happens often when people go NC. You clung to your dad because he was the most outwardly normal parent you had. As you point out he may be a good man who has had years of abuse himself. The difference is, of course, is that as an adult he made his choice with your mother. He cannot and should not expect the same of his children.

If you want me to be honest I don't think he will contact you or want to have a relationship that's not controlled by your mother. Be cautious as your mother may ask him to befriend you in order to get back in herself (this happened to my DH with really awful consequences). She will know you are fond of him and may exploit this. If I were you I would consider cbt or some other therapy, and then if your dad is willing to build a relationship you're doing it from a stronger position.

Keep posting too if you find it helps.

I'm so sorry things are hard for you Milly. I went NC with my narcissist father 3 months ago and I know how awful things must have been for you in the past, how awful the NC must be for you now and how brave you are being in taking yourself away from this nasty, toxic situation. I don't think it's either normal or possible to feel ok that you're not a priority to your parent - but hopefully with help from those we love and who love us we will work through it and thrive.

It sounds to me as though he has always been his own priority. He protected himself from her and in doing so enabled her to carry on with her narcissistic abuse of you.

As his child you absolutely deserve to be his priority and it's his fault and also his sad loss if you are not. You did nothing to deserve that...it was his choice and not something you brought on yourself.

I know you think you owe him something - but you don't, you owe yourself so much more.

My idea for what to do is to do nothing for a while. Let yourself feel the peace and freedom which comes with NC for a while. Then, when you're ready, quietly think through/talk through with friends/a therapist and then decide what to do that is best for you. Good luck and love.

Wise words windingdown

Thanks for taking the time to reply - it is much appreciated. Forgetmenots - mum might try manipulTing me by using dad but she would wasting her time. There is no reason why I would ever let her back into my life - the woman is pure poison and my life is much sweeter without her in it.

I have had CBT a few months ago which was helpful but I have been neglecting my own needs due to various family dramas the last few months. I need to read through some of my notes and start applying all the techniques that I learnt. I am beginning to do that already but just need to put more time into MY needs.

I have moments of being genuinely upset and thinking I better make the first move as not ready to lose dad too. But then I also think why the hell should I! I have already tried reaching out to him and it is his turn now. We were never an emptionally open family but I have made my feelings very clear and I fail to see how dad could not realise how much I would like a relationship with him. I do fully believe that this will be upsetting my dad too but I also think he needs to man up instead of constantly rolling over to her demands. If he cannot be bothered to phone his daughter in case he finds it a bit awkward then he is not much of a dad anyway! I realised once I left home how most parents would move mountains just to be with their kids - so perhaps the odd phonecall wouldn't kill him.

But then after the anger, I just think "I love him." Would it really kill me to pick up the phone? Maybe I am just being stubborn. Also, I know how protective me, my brother and sister have been over dad. On a selfish note, i don't want to look like the baddie for upsetting/ abandoning dad... Also, I know that my siblings have forgotten a lot of the same stuff as I have, which means that dad is seen as the innocent in all this, so They would probably think I was being really hard on dad (and I would've thoughht the same a few weeks ago too)! Plus, I know my mum will be loving this as she has tried to drive a wedge between me and dad for years due to jealousy, and hate to think of her winning/ gloating.

I dont know what i hope to achieve by posting here, I just feel torn... Torn between wanting my dad to fight for me, and make the effort... and tellign him where exactly he can stick his phonecall! I guess the sensible thing is to leave it for now and just send him the usual card/ pressy for fathers day, and see where it goes from there. My brother gets married next year so also trying to minimise the potential fallout for that. Honestly, I can see the contact just slowly petering out over time. I feel a fool for not realising that we only continued to have any relationship at all because of my efforts. How could I believe that he really loved me all this time?

You can love him (dad, what he has been, the love he does feel for you) and leave him (he recently put conditions on you seeing him, and a long time ago repeatedly brought contact with you into a theatrical argument with your mum - "I will leave them and cut them out"). You wouldn't do either of those things so be happy about that.

I went NC with my dad about 10 years ago, then RC after 5 years. It's OK now (although living 500 miles away helps a lot). The pair of them were just terrible. But going NC saves you and your family any more of it, and seems to let things reduce to the bit of them/him/her that does love you. If there isn't any such bit (like my mum), then you know and you have saved years. if there is a tiny bit (like my dad, who is now very old) then you can enjoy that, a lot later. But don't live in hope. Once I let go of hope and striving it all got a lot better. 15 years later, when my dad thanks me for visiting I am amazed! and I feel good, instead of dutiful, when I go round.

Good luck - it's hard but you're not alone.

Could you just live with this torn feeling for a while? You acknowledge that you still love him but at the same time dislike some of the choices he's made? Perhaps you just need some time to get used to these feelings before deciding what to do next?

The man failed you when you were a small child, at your most vulnerable. Why would he would make you a priority now? You are an adult now, capable of living your own life and looking after yourself. If seeing you being hurt by your mother didn't give him the courage then, you going NC is highly unlikely to now.

Stay strong. Put yourself first. Isn't it about time somebody did?

I'm not sure I agree completely with DIYapprentice. I think we all agree that this man wasn't the father you wanted, needed or deserved as a child. That's not to say you don't still love him and it's not to say you can't have a different relationship now as an adult.

Thanks for all your kind and thoughtful replies. I agree that maybe i need to do nothing just for now. I am just going to fucus on me for he next couple of weeks and see what happens after fathers day. Thank you again as it helps just to get other peoples views - especially from those that understand

What I find most difficult in these first months of NC Milly is is the thoughts that keep coming to me of all the cruel/spiteful/devious things that were done and said to me over the years, how I absorbed these without complaint and brushed them under the carpet ( I accepted it was normal to feel somehow "less of myself" after every encounter. I thought it was my conscience pricking me for not trying hard enough to please them. I felt guilty for letting them down and then damn well kept going back for more) and how it took me so long for the lightbulb to come on. How can I have been so compliant and willing? It was because that's what I'd been bred to do.

If these type of thoughts come to you, you're not alone and it's not your fault...you did everything you could to make it a good relationship. Do post again if you need to as things come to mind.

I know what you mean about the thoughts. Things have been constantly playing in my head for the last few weeks - just various memories. I can say though that i have no doubt whatsoever about going nc with mum... She is horrid and i should have done so years ago. One of my biggest regrets is letting her come to my wedding 4 years ago. I have tried absolutely everything to help in the past so i have no guilt there. The only guilt/ hurt comes from things with dad.

I thought long and hard about ending things with mum and was 100% by the time i actually did it, so i didn't expect things to ay on my mind so much.... But it will be worth it in the long run. How are you getting on now? Are you finding it easier with time?

What you're doing is huge and complex and has been coming for years so I think it's absolutely normal that your mind will be going over things. Also, when you make a major decision, don't you think it frees up your mind to explore and old memories and new thoughts flood in?

Something that's really helped me is that a wise MNetter said you have to let the pain come to you and go into you before you can put it behind you and that helped me a lot. Before I'd been trying to hide/ignore the pain (a learned trait of children of toxic parents I understand) and the anger and hurt just built up.

Things are very slowly getting easier with time. I now truely believe that the peace, independence and freedom of NC are so great that I wouldn't ever consider letting my father back into my life. Like you with your Mother, at last I saw the true him, I belived him when he showed me what he was and I decided I didn't want that in my life. Stick with it Milly - it's your turn for some peace, independence and freedom.

Your Dad is abusive, a different kind/ milder/ less in your face abusive than that of your mother but abusive nether less. For whatever reason, your father has chosen to stay and prioritises the relationship with your mother above the relationship with you and will threaten to punish you with the "if he and mum split he would never want to see us again and had no intention to continue contact" if you try to call him on his choice.

I'm afraid you have had the misfortune to have had crap parents, this is not a reflection on you. It appears any relationship you have with your dad is one where you will be doing all the work and the price of maintaing said relationship is one of low expectation, its the hoping that will eat away at you.

Choosing your partner over your child is not, per se, abusive. Also, hoping and wishing for a good father-daughter relationship would eat away at you. That's not to say you can't build a different kind of relationship with different expectations and boundaries (to the relationship which would be your first choice)

But to tell your child you would abandon them in the face of the relationship splitting up is deeply damaging. I agree with you Vivacia that a new relationship can be forged, but that depends on both sides being willing and it sounds like OP's dad will not be unless he is permitted. For someone to do this to their own child is neglectful at best.

OP understands that this is borne of his own mistreatment and issues, but at the same time this is an adult man with choices, I think the best that OP can do is have the realistic expectations you mention in mind, but ensure that she isn't the one doing all the work for a relationship that is deeply dysfunctional to begin with.

I don't disagree with anything you say forgetmenots, it's all a case of shades of grey isn't it? (I mean in terms of a future relationship between adults, his comments and behaviour to the OP as a child were certainly unkind and wrong. I am interpreting them said in a way that is abusive).

It might be, given his lack of effort, that the only relationship possible is a very limited one.

Indeed Vivacia, spot on - I just didnt want the OP to misinterpret either of our comments, as in we'd both said there were perhaps ways forward (but this would be dependent on more than the op's will to make it work).

Came back to check this thread after work and was surprised to see so many more thoughtful replies - thank you.

WD - I like your comment about letting the pain in, in order to move on. I haven't really been doing that because I had underestimated how Going NC would affect me. I had thought so long about it beforehand and thought that I wouldd be free immediately and that has not been the case. I used to spend so long dealing with/ thinking about family dramas, that I thought the immediate effect would be a huge weight off my mind. I believe that will come in time but I think you are probably right about freeing up space for the memories to come flooding in.

Also, I didn't expect things to have been as much of an issue with dad. I ignored/ blocked out any or the warning signs/ things said in the past that didn't fit with my chosen beliefs of him as Super Dad.

Also, as it was my choice to go NC with mum (neither sibling has), whilst both siblings are supportive, I have avoided going to them or my partner because I feel that I made my bed and I should just get on with it and stop moaning.

Vivacia and Forgetmenots - I understand what you are saying about being possible to forge an albeit different relationship with dad. I agree that this is doable after pehaps taking a bit of time and space in the meanwhile. I think i need to make my expectations more realistic.

I have avoided going to them or my partner because I feel that I made my bed and I should just get on with it and stop moaning.

I can't agree with that, Milly.

For a start, you're not 'moaning'. You are trying to process [formative] years of unbelievable shit. That's not moaning.

Can I ask if you have had any therapy other than cbt? I come from a toxic family (NC now, thank goodness) and I have had a lifetime of filling in/healing the blanks through therapy. Cbt is just one set of skills I have learnt in order to facilitate the rewiring of my life/mind/heart. It is good to gen up on these skills - eg you said you needed to get out your notes to remind yourself; but imo the core damage and pain needs to be worked out with a qualified therapist over a period of time.

I have had counselling several years ago which was very helpful in helping me gain some confidence and tacklings feelings of worthlessness/ being overcritical of myself... There are still improvements to be made but it really helped me at the time. I would consider having more counselling in the future if i need it.

Quick update for anyone who might be interested: dad phoned this evening for the first time in approx 3 weeks. The call started with a couple of minutes small talk, followed by dad saying mum wanted a word so was it ok if he put her on the phone.

I very calmly said, "No, i made myself very clear before." Dad's reply: "ok, bye." So i guess i know where i stand now - he made things pretty clear. Knowing mum, she prob told him to phone me in the first place. He always jumps whenever she tells him too.

Anyway, I thought i would be really cut up, but ok with it. I find it offensive that i obviously have so little value to him as a person, but i guess i thought that might be the case. But not really upset... I have begun to feel better generally the last few days anyway. Some of the comments on here have definately helped me process things too.