Going no contact with sis but what about the kids?

[monkeynuts123]

I'm in a bit of a dilemma, my sister has brought me 10 years of trouble because she's still holding grudges about a fairly small argument. I have tried endlessly to make a peaceful relationship with her but I have realised she is rather enjoying this conflict and has form for this with other family members. I have never fought with anyone for longer than a few days and 10 years of it is beginning to take it's toll on me and suck the joy from my life.

She has adult children with baby on the way and I have 2 toddlers. The problem is my kids love her! She is lovely with them, even though she makes shitty comments and manipulates me when we're all together and does silly little things to keep making her point. My kids can feel the tension and know that sister doesn't like me and I don't like her (their simple terms for it) but they do miss her and want to see her and one has even dreamt of her. What do I do with this? They keep asking to go and see her and I feel very torn. I feel it's wrong in a way to break up that relationship when I really think about it I realise it isn't me who's broken those relationships because I have tried and now I think I'm just being a sucker who's being bullied and that's not right for kids to get a wiff of either. My kids said the other day that why don't I take them to visit her and go home and pick them up after!! Loyalty eh ha ha. That won't work either cos she won't 'babysit'. Anyone had similar and worked it out?

You're a family and you make decisions as a unit. If you're cutting contact with a bully, sad though it is, your kids are part of the deal. They already 'feel the tension'... that's not healthy. When they are old enough to decide for themselves who to have in their lives, maybe they'll pick up but for now.... it's not their call, it's yours.

Thanks cogito, but is it ok to put a child through such as sense of loss when the adult is good to them? But I think if adult is a bully to the mum then that's not right is it. Maybe kids have got caught up in the push pull of this relationship. I know

Was going to say I know it's my call but I have to give full consideration to kids. This is so difficult!

Hiya - I'm in a similar situation. I don't know what to do either really.

My sister makes it very clear that the disagrees with most of what I do as a parent and otherwise. But she still wants contact with my children...they like her but aren't bothered either way and rarely mention her.

I am not bothered by the way she behaves towards them, but I feel very undermined by her attitude and also very hurt by it - like, she likes them, and worries about them (being in my care - thanks) but has no wish to spend time with me.

I find it very insulting.
She wanted me to send ds up to hers a few weeks ago, to stay by himself, but I'd have had to go with him on the train with the others, so not cheap - and both ways would have been approaching £100. Just because she felt like seeing him.

I often feel like telling her to have her own children if she wants control over their lives, but I don't. It makes me feel like I am being a bad person if I 'deprive' them of her influence.

I am never sure.

Tricky. Could you just meet her en famille at a neutral location - somewhere to keep her busy - Go Ape etc?

I bet you that your sister has never taken any responsibility for her actions let alone apologise for same.

Rule of thumb here is if she is too toxic for you to deal with then she is certainly too toxic for your children to have to deal with as well. Also they are too young to realise that they could well be being manipulated here, also they are seeing their mum get hurt. Do not let societal convention dictate here.

Your children also need to see both good and positive role models, your sister is certainly neither. FOG (fear obligation and guilt) do play a role here so this is why you are perhaps also mixed up over this. Many people now adults who grew up within dysfunctional family units have FOG in spades.

Keeping your distance you are basically saying that you do not have to put up with toxic family members who try and browbeat you all the time.

Do not forget as well that such people do not and never
If your children already feel the tension between the two of you, it is really not worth further pursuing a relationship.

These people like your sister do not and will not play by the "normal" rules governing familial relations so "normal" ways do not apply here.

Going back for more just says to your kids, "my sister hurts me but I keep going back for more of the same crap from her just in case she has a change of heart". Such people however, do not change.

It is not your fault she is this way, I would blame your parents as well as they have played a role here.

She's never apologised for anything or taken any responsibility, although I have for the few things I said which were a bit hurtful. I have made it clear I wanted to resolve things by any method and she has just punished me for a decade. She wants a relationship with my kids but undermines me and plays mind-games constantly. I am totally exhausted by her and feel so sad that it will always be this way, I have realised she's happy being in this state with me because she always has someone in her life with whom she has a long-standing feud whereas I don't. I'm a real peacemaker and I think this might be the problem. Parents never intervened even when she did the worst things to me. I'm seeing a therapist w

....sorry jumpy baby! ....who says sis is very damaged and although she never gives advice I know she is amazed that I am still in contact.

"is it ok to put a child through such as sense of loss when the adult is good to them?"

Yes. In a similar way, if your children were being bullied at school by a child and you got on with that child's parents, would you feel it was OK to carry on socialising with the parents but keep the kids apart? Or would you feel it was better for the two families to stay separate?

Whilst they may like their aunt, I don't think your children will feel all that big a sense of loss. I'm sure they have friends of their own.

ditch her - she is bad for all of you x

I think you need to think carefully at the type of message you are sending to your dc by completing cutting dsis out. How would you feel if one of your dc did this to the other in years to come and you couldn't be around them both at the same time? I am not saying don't limit contact but enforcing a strong family unit of your own isn't very well demonstrated by destroying the family unit you grew up in.

Your sister wants a relationship with your kids so she can get to you through them.

My gran was like this - she manipulated everyone, told me my paretns were crap etc etc.

Your children don't need someone like this - also, my gran really turned on me when I became a teenager, family bullies prefer young children who don't question them and often turn on older children and start to bully them (because they soften you up when young with constant nice behaviour and bribes of money and sweets and things).

Also remember your sister is only nice to people if it suits her - she is not a nice person.

Stop your kids form seeing her, there is no point, unless you want her enlessly pointing out to them that you are crap, she is nicer than you, she will treat them better etc etc- this happened to me as a kid and we lapped up the xetra sweets, treats and ice creams, but my grandmother did not love us - she just used us to punish and torment my parents. I was too young to see it then - I saw it clearly later and it really hurt.

monkeynuts

Such people truly never ever apologise for their actions nor take any responsibility for same.

You are at heart reasonable, she is not and never will be. If you go onto realise that your life will be a lot happier. You would not tolerate this from a friend, family are truly no different.

Your role within your birth family's dysfunctional unit was that of peacemaker, people from dysfunctional families end up playing roles. I presume your sister was also perhaps more favoured by your parents and you were perhaps trusted i.e well left, to get on with it.

Your sister is a toxic individual and again if she is too toxic for you, she is certainly too toxic for your children to be anywhere near. She wants to have a relationship with your children to further manipulate them, it will not do them any favours at all to have any sort of relationship with their aunt. She brings nothing positive into their lives anyway.

If you are cutting contact, that includes your kids. Your kids are very little so you could make something up - she's on holiday, distract with visit to someone else etc...
I cut contact with someone when my kids were 2 and 4, you can do it.

If children grow up in an emotionally healthy family unit with both good role models inside and outside the family, the children as adults are far less likely to cut their siblings out of their lives. Such types of conflict more often than not happen within emotionally unhealthy and thus dysfunctional family units.

The family unit that OP grew up in is dysfunctional and thus already broken. It is entirely in the OPs hands not to replicate such dysfunctional patterns in her own family unit now. Having any sort of contact with her sister sends the children both powerful and damaging messages. Her sister only wants to have a relationship with OPs children to get back at OP.

Daisy, it is not me who has broken these relationships.

Hi Monkeynuts,
It is hard sometimes, life, but you have to do what you have to do. Good for you for drawing a line under it at one decade of the degrading disrespect from your sister.

How do your sister's adult children feel about their Mom? Have they ever verbalize that she is difficult or do they just quietly keep their distance (to keep the peace)? Do your dc "love" her due to materialistic ,well, bribes?

The over-riding concept, imho, as has already been mentioned above, is the idea that if there is someone treating you badly, then as a parent, you should protect your children from that person, family or not.

May I speculate? I think your sister wants to use your dc for whatever purpose she presently needs-a prop for her own needs. When her grand baby is born, I believe your sister will take delight in dumping your dc in favor of the baby.

Bandplayed you got it in one! She often makes comments about how she'll do things for her grandchild differently. Such as "I won't get a highchair for when your kids come to visit, that's the sort of thing I'll do for my grandchildren". I also want to get out before this next opportunity arises for her to punish me. She'll do thngs like not put the babys sock on if it falls off when she's playing with her, instead she'll hand me the sock to put on. She has said I'm an anxious neurotic mother but at the same time treats me as if I take risks with my kids (we live in country and kids run along the river with me, perfectly safe So one minute I'm over cautious and next reckless apparently.

Your sister doesn't love you children in themselves. She likes having them around so that she can show off how good she is with children, what a great mother/aunt she is, and how shit you are. They are just a way to get to you.

I am sorry you are going through that, Monkeynuts (is your name a G rated swear word? Makes me ) You should be getting support, not a constant drip of erosion at your expense.

I am no contact with my sister too. I was 46 when I finally had enough, decades of crap just wore me down so much I was slipping into depression.

Daisy, no matter how exactingly perfect 'Happy Families' is played to the 1/32 inch detail, the thing is: the children will grow up with their own minds and live their own lives when they become adults (hopefully some before they get to that point!) that they will then decide for themselves whether or not it is appropriate (mental health is an appropriate consideration) for them to cut contact or not.

By keeping the children in the dysfunctional dynamic will only ensure that the dysfunctional dynamic will continue; it will not promote, nurture, guide the children to healthy social dynamics so they can live a mentally healthy life with healthy boundaries, even if those boundaries need to be erected to manage effectively negative family members.

You are doing the right thing, Monkeynuts. Do what Scruffy said...just keep making excuses. Also, reread what Attila said, over and over if need be. That is the foundation of the dynamic here, and put so much better than I can say it.

In toxic families enforcing a strong family unit of your own is very well demonstrated by destroying being brave enough to protect yourself and your DC from th family unit you grew up in.

She's not good to them if she's not good to you! You have to see that. You being put down and manipulated is not good for them - it's very bad for them.

Shall I tell you my salutory tale? I cut off my sister but facilitated a relationship between my kids and her (and her family). When my kids went through a rebellious stage (also bereaved, their father died), my sister was in like a flash. I don't see my kids now. My sister has them when they come 'home' - she has effectively taken my place.

Don't underestimate toxic people. Get her out of your life, lock, stock.

I think avoid. DC can seek her out when they're grown up if they wish (and will be better equipped then to see what sort of person she is.

My family had little contact with my aunt and uncle for personality/lifestyle clash reasons but I now have a cordial relationship with one of my cousins thanks to Facebook.

You could appoint some honorary aunties - you know, people who actually like and respect you!

Springy that's dreadful! But what would I do about her adult kids and the baby on the way? I haven't seen her for a month now and am so much happier without her.