I think my marriage is over...

[curlyLJ]

I am a long time lurker on this board as I know things haven't been right in my marriage for some time but I couldn't put my finger on exactly what was going on. Can't be bothered to namechange!
DH and I have been together for 14 years and married for 6.5 and we have one DD aged 3. This goes back at least since DD was born and probably even before if the truth be told. In recent months, I have thought about splitting more than once as I find some of the things he does really hard to live with (if I had discovered mumsnet years ago, i think I would have seen the red flags and we might never have got married). I now realise he is verbally abusive (often tells me to f*ck off in the middle of a row - sometimes in front of DD - and he cuts me off and won't let me speak, stonewalls me and talks to me like he is 'in charge') and I am pretty sure there is some EA in the mix too even though, although he makes me doubt myself as he comes across as the perfect DH to everyone else (and probably thinks he is too) - but I have carried on for DD and because I didn't want to be the one to break up her home...

Anyway, we had yet another argument this weekend while we were staying with friends just before he left to come home (he was due to be coming home Sunday eve by train and I was staying on with DD until today) and he ended up setting off for home in a strop. He didn't text me to say he got back OK until the morning (even though I'd asked him to) so I didn't bother to call him at all yesterday (sometimes it's better to leave him be until he calms down anyway). The text I had got was very curt, so i thought sod it and didn't call him all day. I did send him a photo of DD having fun with her friend (my friends DD) while we were out in the day and he didn't respond. I then got a second curt text last night saying that he thought I would have at least rung him so he could chat to DD. DD didn't want to talk to him which is not unusual as she doesn't like talking on the phone so I text him back to tell him that and that she was asleep and then I left it, thinking we could just discuss when I got home tonight.

Apparently it was all the wrong thing to do and as usual I am the only one in the wrong. I think i was partly out of order, but then so was he. It's almost like he was 'testing me' to see if I would call or not if that makes sense?! He now says that our relationship is obviously so unimportant to me that I couldn't be bothered to call him (even though he didn't try to call me), and that there are lots of issues and he thinks the trust has gone (he thinks I was discussing it with friends after he left). He says the relationship is over and I think deep down we both know he is probably right. I think we have got to the end of a road here and I am not sure we can save the marriage, as the cracks are too deep to fill.

What I can't get my head around though is that I just don't want this to happen in reality, I just want it to be OK, I don't want to have to share DD and have to spend every other w/e apart from her...I start thinking about all the things that we won't be able to do as a family any more and it makes me so sad. I just don't see a way out of it though now it's all been said

He's gone to bed now and won't discuss it any more tonight. I on the other hand won't be able to sleep and am left here upset and not knowing what to do...my head is spinning!

Sorry that was longer than intended. Thanks for reading if you got to the end! I just needed to write it down.

kiss, could you pursue individual counselling ?

He isn't having sex elsewhere. I actually wish he would because he knows that I could never tolerate that and it would make it easy for me to just go. I guess he also knows that I will tolerate his EA though doesn't he? I think this time he actually wants me to leave so that he won't look like the 'bad guy'.

I actually asked him that tonight - he was quite calm until that point then got annoyed. Maybe I hit the nail on the head?

I think you did hit the nail on the head.

he is very carefully manipulating you.

never mind that though, let him think what he wants

if you want to end your relationship...take steps to put it in motion

I have had counselling before but that was a while back and we only touched on the relationship issues. It was about me contacting my birth family etc and all the emotions that dragged up.

We did go to Relate about 4 years ago. He thought the counselor was rubbish but that's probably because he (quite obviously) was on my side!

Another flag there isn't it? God I feel so stupid...

I have also seen many women type/say "I wish he did hit me, it would make my decision easier"

to me, that indicates the relationship is already dead

You are not stupid, love. He will have had every opportunity to be a decent partner, and many more he didn't deserve. He is the stupid one.

I know what you are saying is true. I really do. I'm in a tricky situation - just finished a professional qualification and have a job offer but no start date yet as need CRB etc sorted.

I think I do know deep down. I feel sad for my children though and guilty about how this will change things. I know that long term things would be better but it's still hard.

Curly in a few years you definitely won't be the only one of your social group to be breaking up. My dcs are older than yours by a few years and many marriages are breaking up around us. For the kids' sake, I wish I'd seen the light (aka found MN ) when they were your dc's age, because I think if it's going to happen, an early break up is easier than a late one for the dcs. Good luck in whatever course you take

These things are never easy

is the alternative any easier to contemplate ?

at least if you split, all the decisions become your own and not a dismantling of your own principles in order to hang on to a dying relationship with an inadequate man

put like that... ?

Cakes my STBX called our highly intelligent, highly qualified, experienced and fair mediator a "fucking idiot" - because she asked us both if we felt safe co-habiting whilst we divorced. YY to this being a red flag.

I have to go to bed now.

Good luck and strength to those in damaging relationships x

I know. I really do. I've been researching options on housing etc today.

He would be indignant at your comments. That's actually cheered me up

Thanks AF - you give such sound advice.

Curly - sorry for hijacking your post. I will check back tomorrow and see how things are going for you.

Kissmecakes - don't worry about the hijack. Sounds like we are in similar positions. The reality of actually doing something about all the issues seems a whole lot harder than just muddling along and hoping it will get better doesn't it?

Your comment I think I do know deep down. I feel sad for my children though and guilty about how this will change things. I know that long term things would be better but it's still hard. is exactly how I feel. I think I have 'known' for a long time, but the reality of sorting out all the practicalities like who's going to stay in the house, access to DD, what we do about joint stuff, telling people etc that makes me put off the inevitable. It just seems like a huge, huge cloud hanging over my head that I have been trying to ignore for a long time...

AF - as kissmecakes said, your advice is very good. Thanks

There are two things you can do that will make the decision easier,

First, go and find out where you will stand financially. Go to a solicitor and get the facts. Go to CAB and find out about benefits. Don't aimlessly worry just work through what you will need to do.

Second, imagine all the things your H says to you being said by your DC to you, and then to their eventual partner. That every time they have a problem in a relationship they will resort to the way your H handles problems. Really think about that and how it will make you feel to know that your decision to stay made sure they learnt that from their parents. The guilt and sadness you will feel will be overwhelming.

It is hard to leave but you will have peace of mind, freedom, no atmosphere. B'days and Christmas are lovely times where you don't have to tow the line or walk on eggshells to ensure they are not ruined. They're just nice peaceful cosy times with your kids. That you all enjoy.

I've been trawling through MM for a while now. There is no end to the advice you can be given, but we are talking about the real world here. Before you go down the road of divorce, which is a one way street...

What you haven't mentioned CurlyLJ is "do you actually still love DH?

Have you let him know exactly how you feel..... I'm not saying that you should stay in a marriage that is wrong for you, all i'm saying is perhaps there is some straight talking to be done - no shouting from him or you!
See if he responds and understands what you feel.

Only then should you sure about the path ahead......

curly - thanks. It does sounds like we are in very similar positions as your thoughts around it being like a huge cloud resonated with me.

Electric - those are wise words and recently I have tried to focus on how the effects my children. My eldest isn't my partner's son, but if my son spoke to a future partner in the way in which my partner speaks to me at times I would be horrified and ashamed.

That speaks volumes doesn't it?

It all sounds so obvious when you start writing it down. Was thinking what would be helpful was to compile a list of all the hateful things he has ever said and how he has behaved towards me in the past. Would perhaps strengthen my resolve. I seeem to sawy from I'm definately going to leave to maybe things will settle down once X, Y, Z happens.

Need to toughen up don't I?

*Sway

We go round and round in circles sexysmity if I try and broach a 'you made me upset when you said ...' conversation. He just blocks me and wont discuss it if he doesn't like what am saying. I get told I am being negative or moaning about everything.

Do I still love him? My honest answer is I really don't know. I think I love him but not in a way I should love a husband ie not 'in love' with him. I think there is too much water under the bridge now possible to get that back. I think maybe the love has just petered out.

He is very angry with me at the moment (as detailed in my OP) and I think he thinks I am just going to apologise and plead that he re-thinks his decision that the relationship is over - well he has got a shock coming because I am not going to play his daft mind games any more!

kissme I have often thought of making that list too, so I have something to look at when my strength wavers.

I think I might just get on with it this week - not to show him, but just as a reminder for me. I can clearly remember so many incidents that he would just deny ever happened!

curly - same with the being told I am always negative and moaning about everything - it's ALWAYS my fault.

Exactly re the list - when I waver it would make me realise how he has behaved in the past on so many occasions.

When you say "daft mind games" Curly, I assume he has said that your relationship is over...... or could it be that "he" is also very unhappy and struggling to explain it is about your relationship that is not right.

I think you should be strong, write down your list and make sure you are not vulnerable to manipulation.

One final thing before that decision is made... I assume you loved him before, and you used to be able to talk to him as equal partners..... is there anything that you could do to improve your communication ie: why could you communicate before and not now?

I am writing this from experience, I split up from my partner and found out afterwards that some friends (although very supportive) felt that I had made a decision really because of not being happy in-myself - and not because or our relationship was irretrievable.

Being strong means making the right decision - not making any decision!

Good Luck.....

It's a pattern isn't it - he's angry with you, you apologise and say you'll 'be better' 'try harder' until you believe that maybe some of it is your fault, except you know it isn't and it all spills out.

The long convaluted situations that lead up to the silent treatment, that seem like nothing yet you agonise over what you've done wrong. Nothing so bad that you obviously need to leave, yet it grinds you down.

The threats he's making are to keep you in line. The stonewalling, so you can't have your say.

This really could have been my relationship down to the throwing things and criticising the relate counsellor (in my case!) for being 'on my side' (she needed counselling to cope with him!)

I promised myself for years that the next time I'd just say 'leave' and when I saw the effect on my then 8 year old daughter - I did.

That was two years ago and I can't pretend it's been easy. He still tries to be controlling, has been very difficult and awkward over access, can be rude and tells me how difficult I am (this is the man who argued and was rude to the mediator last year). It is calming down now.

Part of my problem was that he was in control of the separation, initiated it (although I suspect he thought I would beg for him back), said he was going to stay 6 months until he had sorted a house (and in fact relegated me to a matress on the floor even when the house was in my name and was paying nothing towards it!), demanded half of the equity of the house (which is in fact fair as I have some family money), demanded I told no-one, not even family (in fact I had to tell his mum 'cos he was too much of a coward to do it). He also demanded what time he have with the kids on his terms and I was too shell shocked to argue :(

I suspect your situation won't stop or get better and if you think about it you'll be able to see a pattern of arguments

I do have some advice though - a lot of it repeated

1. see a few solicitors for their free sessions, in fact as many as possible as then he'll have fewer to choose from. Even if you choose to try and sort things, at least you'll know what your rights are

2. Write these incidents down, even if just on Mumsnet where you can search from them. That way you'll know (and have conformation from others if on here) that you're not going mad

3. f you do separate, make sure what you agree with your H is written down. I find e-mails probbaly the best way of communicating

4. don't expect it will seem better straigt away. It might, however, you will miss your daughter when he has her (but you can plan time out for you). You may miss having someone to talk to, he may still be an arse :( but it does get better :)

5. REMEMBER IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT

Good luck

Oh and what I didn't mention was that he had a new women as soon as he'd moved out, who he'd known for years

Curly and kiss me - I am in the same situation. It is making me feel very sad just now

How r things going Kissme & curly?