Awakening a marriage which is little more than housemates

[indecisioniskillingme]

I'm at my wits end...

Me and Dh have been having a difficult time for several months and haven't been connecting. We've been together 8 yrs, married four and have dd 3.

We 'get on' fine but there is no intimacy, haven't slept together since jan and I can't bear him touching me in a sexual way. Affection is fine but anything more I don't like. We have never been great sexually but it is getting worse.

Is there any hope?

Where there's life there's hope. The crunch question is 'do you both want to stay married?' because the only way anyone resolves these things is as a team effort. If 'yes' then move onto the next step of thinking about how to reconnect, communicate & reinforce the affection - although not necessarily 'sex' to begin with. If 'no' then be honest with each other. If you find it difficult to start the conversation you could benefit from couples counselling.

Do you love him? Does he love you? Then there's hope. You have to work at it, and communicate.

I could have written your post OP. I had been with my husband for 8 years, married 4, ds 3. We split up last year as it just wasn't working out. I haven't had sex since my son was conceived! Not because I didn't want to but because H was just not intrested. (in me? in sex?). I feel that a major issue with us was lack of communication. I was shattered, expected to keep house and look after baby, H spent all his spare time on PC.

Please if you want things to work out then you must sit down and talk together.

I don't know if I want to stay married (he does) and I don't know if I love him. He says he loves me. I want to feel all those things but at the moment I just don't.
I am so confused. It has been bad for months. How do I make a decision?
Or can I just accept that good friends and fun together is enough?

Sadly, if you don't know if you love someone the chances are you probably don't. Being good friends and having fun together is fine as far as it goes but how long is it reasonable or fair to expect everyone to stay celibate? And what does 'bad for months' look like in reality?

Bad for months just means no sex, no real talking, functioning as parents and as people who live together but not a lot more than that.
I care for him deeply and think he is a good man but I don't know if that's enough...

It's not enough, no. Maybe today and tomorrow it's enough but what about the future? Is this as good as it gets? What happens when years of no sex, no talking, no nothing turn from 'functioning' into bitterness and resentment for all that time wasted? What if you met someone (or he met someone) who had all the qualities you want?

It's time to either kill it or cure it.

Do you think that when he says he loves you, he means that he loves you - or that he means 'I really don't want to have to do my own housework and cooking, or to move out of my nice house, and also I like my public image as a happily married man. So if I just say 'I love you' a few times it will be like pressing the reset button and she'll carry on looking after me?

Gosh that's me too....feeling really low this morning. Not posted on mn for years but just felt I needed to see if it 'was just me' and so came on to look at posts. We've been married 12 years, together 15. 2 dc aged 9 & 4. No sex since no.2 conceived.... We're going to Relate and things improved a bit. Big fall out on Sunday though and feels like square 1. I feel so tired all the time, and am thinking that its because of all the 'head stuff' wearing me out. I have no motivation for anything. Sorry no real advice, except I guess I wish I'd suggested Relate a long time ago instead of brushing it all under the carpet and papering over cracks.....I think our resentments etc are now too ingrained but feel very, very sad that tHis might be the end.... Big hugs xx

Cogito - if I don't kill it how can I cure it? I'm genuinely after practical suggestions.

Solid - no I think he does genuinely love me. We are a very 50 50 couple and he does his fair share. He's a good family man. I just don't find he has a lot to offer me as a grown up woman. We don't really talk but then do most couples or is everyone just bumbling along on nursery runs, shopping, working etc? Am I looking for too much?

Have you considered getting some counselling for yourself, to get your thoughts in order, OP? MrD did this for a while when we were having some sexual problems. It's taken a while to fix, but we're better than ever, now.

Has the sexlife always been lacklustre or is it just in recent times? Was there a point that it was amazing/pretty good? How would you describe your sexlife with him when it was at its best, and when abouts in your relationship was that?

I am having counselling and it's useful but I am going roun in circles a bit on "should I stay or go?".

Our sex life has always been functional. Just about having an orgasm/getting pregnant. When we were first together it was more experimental but never about "love making" - always about the physical feelings, not the emotional connection. I am more sexual than DH and I think that could be a big problem for us. I don't really fancy him or want to "make love" to him. Now I can't even deal with a sexual touch from him.

To answer the question directly:
For me yes, it has always been lacklustre.
It was at its best Pre DC. I thought that was normal but now dd is 3 it's still not back. We had problems ttc another and sex did become very functional. But now my feelings to him aren't sexual at all. I do think he's attractive though - its so confusing

It's a good sign you still find him attractive though.

A lot of people's sex lives are about having orgasm/getting pg, not about the emotional connection. I once had a long-term partner who I was practically the other half of, we were so very close, but the sex, although emotionally connective (like every other area of our relationship) was lacklustre. my most successful relationship has been happy/loving outside the bedroom but pretty much just physical (ie not emotionally tender) inside the bedroom. It all depends on what is right for you. (but what I am trying to say is that emotionally connective relationship isn't the be-all end-all.)

You asked, "We don't really talk but then do most couples or is everyone just bumbling along on nursery runs, shopping, working etc? Am I looking for too much?" well. only you can judge that but what I can say is that myself and most of my friends would say that nursery runs, shopping and working etc form 90% of their relationship.. Perhaps the difference is that the last 10% is pretty good whereas in your case the last 10% is not.

The positives: You say you are good friends and have fun. and you still find him attractive. He's a good man, and a good family man, and pulls his weight with the house/children. There's still quite a lot of stuff there to work with. Have you had any time to yourselves without the children recently? Been away for a weekend? Had any fun?! Done anything different together? (ie indoor skiing, zip-wiring, wine tasting?) If you were to surprise him with an indoor skydiving session for two with lunch afterwards, how would he react? Would he do it? If there's any chance he would, I think you should. (find something to do together and make it happen).

Can I ask. Is there anyone you have seen recently (man wise) that appears to have qualities your DH does not? A trigger/focal point for your current frame of mind? I don't mean AT ALL anyone you "have your eye" on. I just mean anyone you have noticed for qualities you don't get in your relationship. For example I notice that my BIL is more affectionate physically with his wife than my DH is and that is the sort of thing you think "that's nice, I wish my DH did that. Sometimes that can set off a rollercoaster. Usually, I might say "did you see how BIL is really affectionate with SIL, and stroked her cheek/playfully flicked her hair?? I wish you would do that from time to time". So I will tell him. But if I didn't feel strong enough for whatever reason it might just fester as a point of annoyance. Are you able to share your niggles with him? How would he react if you raised one great thing and one niggle thing with him (fly off handle, defensive, shrug off, ignore?)

Do you get enough leisure time, OP? By which I mean time to do something that's only for your benefit, not 'family fun' or 'couple time' but time you spend focussing on your own enjoyment. Because a complete lack of that will make almost anyone bored and resentful, no matter how nice their family/household are. If your life consists of childcare, chores, work (if you work outside the home in a job that's not exactly fulfilling) and watching TV you will find things a bit lacklustre.

What has caused you to switch off?

You do sound bored and fed up with life in general, and perhaps this dissatisfaction is being placed on your DH to some extent (although he may be very boring, I don't know).

I think those early years are tough, 3 is still very little and if you are anything like me, you feel wrung out from being touched and pawed at by a little child and I think for me at least, this meant I became less interested in being touched by my partner, as it just felt like another job to do. This has lessened over time, as the children have got older, and by prioritising intimacy.

I also think it is normal to fall out of love at some points in a long marriage, I have certainly had periods of several months of not liking my husband very much and finding him irritating, but equally swings of really falling in love again. Obviously without the upswings, there wouldn't be much point.

You do sound fed up and dissatisfied- SGB's question is a good one- do you get time to yourself, to persue your own goals and interests or are you a bit subsumed under all the drudgery that goes with having a small child/working etc.

Another way to think about it - what would you gain if you left your husband? Sounds silly, but is there something about that life you are longing for that he really could not provide, or is this just a temporary lull at a rather hardgoing tired episode in your life.

I don't know the answers, but if you still like him, have fun together, get on, this is worth asking these questions over.

Mumsyblouse that's an excellent point you've raised: "What would you gain if you left your husband". It's often easy to get wrapped up in what we don't like than realistically thinking about if life would be better rather than just different if we changed something. How would life work out practically? Would it really be better? Do you think there's a soulmate out there for you, and if there is, what if he comes with a load of baggage that puts pressure on your relationship? What if your kids don't like him? Lots to realistically consider.

I once left a long term partner because I got fed up with him. In hindsight we just needed redirection but I convinced myself it was The End and then gathered evidence to support that. For a while I revelled in the freedom of not having to deal with our relationship problems but when that had passed I missed him and by that time he had met someone else and it was serious. I did regret not trying harder to make it work especially when I realised what a whole lot of jerks were out there.

So for me unless it's unbearably dead in the water, everything has been tried etc etc then there's still life in it.. people can "wake up" when they realise they may lose everything.. OP your DH might need waking up but the fact you say you still find him attractive says really quite a lot.

Not to bombard OP with questions but, to consider, imagine a year down the line and you have split up, and you see him with his new, but serious, partner. Would you feel jealous? Hard to imagine I know but imagine he's all.. I don't know.. sparkly, active, attentive, etc, with a new haircut and looking quite sharp ? Would you want him back, do you think? My ex-partner really woke up after I left him and became more interesting and sparklier and nicer to people and made time for leisure etc (all the things I wished he'd done when we were together).

Thanks for the helpful replies ladies.

Rainsunwind - we don't do anything like that together and I think we'd both have a right laugh if we did. Although it would feel like friends having a nice day out together, rather than a couple. I felt it was always me making the effort with 'us' so I stopped. And now it's stopped altogether as Dh is very focused on DC (not that I'm complaining but I am a little forgotten as a woman apart from being the nice lady who does all the chores and stuff.)

Re: noticing other people. Yes I have. I met someone who shook me to my core physically, emotionally and mentally. That has Jo doubt had an impact even though nothing happened.

SGB - I do do socialising with friends alone but don't have any hobbies for me. That's something I'd like to do though. I do feel like I could use some me time but that would be at the expense of family time and that somehow feels wrong.

Mumsyblouse - I WISH Dh would paw me!! He has probably initiated sex 3 times in 7 years and always when he just wants a shag, never about making love to ME. I wish we had a more sexual relationship but I just don't feel like that about him and he tells me he's not a very sexual person.

As for "what would I gain if I left my husband" - I feel like I might have the freedom to be ME. I feel like I am pretending to be in love with him but I dont feel I really am. I like him a lot don't get me wrong but love... Aside from being the father to my dc I don't know if I do. I suppose the thing I am longing for is to have a DP who's attentive and talks to me, and who i can have great sex with. That's what I miss. In all the practical terms my Dh is great but emotionally I am very lonely. I think that's why I found myself so attracted to someone else. Leaving him would be very scary and very risky cause it's not THAT bad - but I have had 3 big wobbles in the relationship, this is the 4th and I wonder if I will always wonder "what if?" if I stay. Of course if I leave I could end up lonely, seeing less of dc, poorer(!) and that would be shite.

Rainsunwind - I think if I was alone and he was all "sparky" I probably would feel jealous yes. But I can't imagine looking at him and seeing more than a good friend.

It's so confusing

Ok. Um.. this will sound a bit new-fangled but is there any way you could or would consider a couples weekend retreat? I have heard of places where struggling couples go in this sort of scenario. It could help evaluate how or if there is something to save.

As for the noticing other person. I asked tentatively because although I do genuinely believe that women can notice another man's actions without wanting that man (ie my BIL example)... but also.. because when I was deeply dissatisfied with my ex-p it was because someone new had started paying me a lot of attention, so I kind of recognise the malaise you are expressing. Nothing happened in my case either. but I had a taste of a feeling like I was some kind of amazing dream woman. it was intoxicating to feel like that. That's why I did wonder if you had experienced the same and it sounds like you have.

Let's say your DH went on a crash course and learnt how to be hotter in bed and how to make you feel more special. treated you like a sexy hot wife. Bought you flowers, smacked your bum occasionally on the way past, brought home something saucy from Ann Summers. Arranged for the kids to go to GPs or wherever for the night every now and then, so you could go out for a meal and sleep in as late as you want. Would that be enough, or are you totally fed up with him? Or is it someone else you really want? Because it's true that people CAN change and they CAN learn to do things differently. There could be a sexy husband lurking within yours but he maybe needs more confidence to bring it out?

It does seem such a shame that you a) are good friends, b) fancy him c)appreciate he is a good dad and pulls his weight d) there has been nothing in your posts to suggest he's irresponsible in any way (ie with money, or has a wandering eye).

Please remember the old saying that the grass is always greener. I went out eventually with the guy who paid me all the attention. he turned out to be a total snake/oddball but it was soooooo soooo well disguised I never saw it coming.

This is all quite contradictory- on the one hand you say you can't bear him touching you physically, on the other you say you wish he's make a move on you, then you say you only see him as a friend, then you say that you find him physically attractive.

I think you've had your head turned by someone else who (because you don't live with them and can project your fantasies into the situation) seems like life with them would be lots of great sex, an amazing spark and lots of emotionally bonding experiences. I don't know if that is true, but lots of relationships start more passionate and die back- this is a more normal pattern- in fact the tendency for modern relationships which make a big feature of friendship to lack passion is very common. I have no idea if this book is helpful, but it may describe your predicament:

www.andrewgmarshall.com/i-love-you-but-im-not-in-love-with-you/

I also think you are a bit stuck in the pattern of you having frequent wobbles (four is a lot really in an eight year relationship) and him just passively waiting for you to decide to recommit.

I'm not sure if the dynamic can be changed, I think you have to acknowledge why each of those times you did actually choose to stay with him and work out what you do value, as well as what you are missing.

Mumsy - yes I can see how it is contradictory - I suppose I mean I wish we'd had that kind of relationship. Now I couldn't bear it but we were never like that. I guess what I wish is that he made me feel sexually attractive outside the bedroom rather than just wanting a shag in the bedroom.

Now I have totally closed that part off he hasn't asked about it for ages. I've just said I am not interested.However I am a woman and still have lots of desires. Fortunately ann summers is around! Your advice is really helpful thanks and I will look up that book.

Rainsunwind - I don't fancy dh. I think he is attractive, ie I look at him and think he is nice looking but I don't really fancy him. He doesn't turn me on, I haven't enjoyed sex with him for years (though put this down to the pressure of ttc).

As for the guy I was attracted to - who knows what life would be like in the real world with him. I'm not under any illusions but it did make me think about some fundamental flaws in my marriage.

I would consider a couples retreat I guess but a the moment I am still trying to decide if I even think its worth trying. Dh is being very open withme about splitting up so I know we could do for a friendly separation with good co parenting.... I almost wonder if that's better than TRYING for too long... You know?

I've downloaded the book :) gotta love the iPad!

I am in a very similar situation.

I don't know what to do. One part of me is saying try harder, just buy lube, lie back and try to make the sex life work (even if only for him). Every other part of the marriage is nice, friendly, cordial, reasonably fair. I just don't fancy him and havn't for a long while. I do want sex though, and have thought about several other people, but recognise fantasies might not ever equate to happy realities.

We are financially stable enough (mostly due to me - and now I expect to recieve an inheritance) to seperate and I think we could co-parent amicably. But if we stayed together, we could probably buy a nicer home (by a lake), go on family holidays etc and just be amicable.

The staying together option seems most sensible, but I just don't fancy him, and my eye is roving.

No advice but I think I am in the same position as you.

How long have you been married Molly?
How long have you felt like this?