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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Don't really want to post but feel like I'm going nutty!

129 replies

TheOrchardKeeper · 10/04/2013 10:28

Long story short, me and DP have been together just under a year. He's taken to DS very well, helps out a lot, is supportive & seems respectful.

But I was borrowing his phone to check my FB via his (he knew and was there) and I saw that he's liked this page & gets daily updates, basically of women in their underwear with the option of seeing them naked elsewhere on the internet (they usually post pics with links to more explicit material).

I know a lot of blokes occasionally use porn and for some reason that doesn't bother me but I just didn't think he was the 'type'.

The issue is partly because I think it's a bit sleazy & partly because whilst not massive I obviously look like I've had a kid naked & despite him saying he prefers me now to when I was a twig, I don't believe him, as I used to be the same size as most of these girls etc.

I know this is probably stupid but I feel like saying something (carefully) to him as I'm now silently judging him & feeling like it's changed my view of him slightly, which isn't that fair is it if I haven't asked him about it.

Sorry for rambling! Smile

OP posts:
Original poster
TheOrchardKeeper · 11/04/2013 14:48

Thank you Smile

Each to their own outside of our relationship! I just can't pretend it's not an issue really.

OP posts:
TheYoniKeeper · 11/04/2013 16:21

Thanks Smile

It didn't seem very 'empowering' to me when I had a good look at the FB page but that's pretty bad!

TheYoniKeeper · 11/04/2013 16:21

(scuse the namechange...is something to do with another thread)!

TheYoniKeeper · 11/04/2013 19:12

Right...DP will be here in half an hour.

Must. Not. Chicken. Out!

TheYoniKeeper · 11/04/2013 21:22

Thank you for all your advice. It went really well.

He said since we got together he's not really felt 'the need' and when I showed him a few links about trafficking etc he said he'd not thought about it and was pretty disgusted.

Glad I talked to him about it! Smile

Doubtfuldaphne · 11/04/2013 21:43

I used to be a suicide girl ten years ago! It's more of a fashion thing in a way- it's so mainstream it's like it's 'ok/cool' to like it
It's tasteful in comparison to a lot of stuff out there
I know loads of girls who 'like' them on fb too

I say good on him for choosing to like sg and not some trashy playboy bikini models!

Lovingfreedom · 12/04/2013 10:03

Glad it went well OP! Obv only got what you've written on here to go on but can't help feeling that he is a decent guy. Smile

TheYoniKeeper · 12/04/2013 13:49
Smile
EmmaBemma · 12/04/2013 21:14

"I say good on him for choosing to like sg and not some trashy playboy bikini models!"

There's no real difference to be honest - I agree with eccentrica a few pages back. There's nothing about suicide girls that celebrates "alternative" beauty - the girls are all conventionally attractive and conventionally slim, they just have tattoos and a few (but not too many!) piercings. It's a massive industry now, run by a bloke, for blokes, and has naff all to do with female empowerment.

TheYoniKeeper · 12/04/2013 21:49

^ have to say I do agree with emma & others who've posted.

Each to their own but I just think it's different types of the same thing.

(Plus, until someone posted on here I didn't realize the site is actually owned by a bloke & there've been a few SGs to come out of that scene and speak up about a few dodgy goings on).

cjel · 12/04/2013 22:28

Faire I so wish you'd been on another thread I was on a while ago, I was the only one who thought porn might be abusive. I was told of course its consensual as two grown adults sign contracts to agree what they are doing. I thought I was a dinasour for thinking porn of any sort was wrong.I was told my view was twisted!! Its made me feel so good to hear your view.

Fairenuff · 12/04/2013 22:41

It's amazing how ignorant some people claim to be. There are always people ready to promote the 'happy hooker' myth. There's no point in trying to educate people if they're just going to shout you down though cjel. There may have been lurkers who might think twice, though, so always worth putting your point across I feel. You never know who it might help.

cjel · 12/04/2013 22:55

Hadn't thought of that, thanks I will keep trying , when appropriate. If it helps one thats worth it.

Lovingfreedom · 12/04/2013 23:00

Those who are completely against porn...is it ok to let a guy take pornographic photos of you? Or is that abusive or exploitative? What about sharing the pics on a public website? These are real questions I don't know the answer to.

cjel · 12/04/2013 23:06

Personally, I have had my photo taken by my DH of 30yrs but deleated straight away, Wouldn't feel comfy any one looking at them after even me and DH because I'd just feel silly> Don't know if that helps?

Fairenuff · 12/04/2013 23:09

If he is taking them of you, then you know that you are consenting. However, many women are in relationships where the man, through being controlling & emotionally abusive, has ground her down so that she may well consent, even though she doesn't really want to.

It's a bit like having sex with your partner when you're not really in the mood, just to keep them happy. Lots of women do that too so, whilst they are technically consenting, in reality, they don't feel strong enough to say no and it's easier to go along with it to keep the peace.

If you are genuinely able to consent, and want to, then of course it's fine. Whether you want them on a public website is another matter. Most women would not want their partner showing the pictures to anyone else. Most women, who have a choice would not want their picture on public view.

Lovingfreedom · 12/04/2013 23:17

Is there an element of objectification though? If you are the subject...or object of the photograph even if you have given full consent and there was no coercion. Is that objectification of our bodies still something that we should discourage, as feminists or thinking women?

cjel · 12/04/2013 23:26

Yes I think there probably is, but then how far do you go with any sex acts between different positions etc that may be the start of something degrading - there is a line somewhere and it has to do with the nature of the relationship I think. As my relationship of 30 years was only what dh and I both enjoyed it didn't seem objectifying. If it was between 2 people who didn't know or trust each other and was then shared outside the relationship that is different to my mind.I don't know how my relationship with dh that we both enjoy needs to be discouraged. No other women or men know about it?

Fairenuff · 12/04/2013 23:28

This would be part of sexual intimacy between a couple in a loving relationship and in a safe environment. If you felt objectified, then, yes, that would be something you should put a stop to.

cjel · 12/04/2013 23:29

Fairenuff you say it so much better than me!!

Lovingfreedom · 12/04/2013 23:39

I went to see The Burlesque Show tonight with a friend. It was a primarily female audience and it was, IMO, ropey. One of the most glaring features was that all the women in the show took off their clothes (not full nudity but strip-tease to g-strings and nipple tassles), but none of the men did (ok one got top-less with a woman). The whole Burlesque thing is supposedly empowering or somehow different from professional stripping/sex industry stuff...but I'm confused about all this too tbh....

At one point a drunk (female) in the audience shouted out 'I'd love to spank the arse on that' referring to a woman on stage wearing lingerie and stockings who then did a strip tease routine. I'm confused. This seems very similar to how blokes might behave at a strip club.

My current relationship (after abusive marriage) does seem to involve an element of him objectifying my body (I'm not that arrogant btw...I have an ok figure and I'm comfortable but I'm over 40, 2 natural births, breastfed etc...I'm normal!!). I enjoy what we do...but I do wonder how this fits with a feminist ideal. This is a minefield isn't it?

cjel · 12/04/2013 23:47

I would say that anything that shows sex like porn/burlesque is ropey. It is said to be empowering and only done by women who consent etc etc, but I think its all wrong. As for any relationship between two people in private I'd say that anything that makes a person feel objectified or uncomfortable isn't good. Anything in a relationship should make you feel good. Sometimes you may feel good but think you shouldn't. It can be difficult especially if you've been in an abusive relationship before, if you enjoy what you do then I'd say its ok? Doesn't the feminist ideal say that we shouldn't be abused and if you don't feel abused ??

Fairenuff · 12/04/2013 23:59

It's difficult if you've been in an abusive relationship because you don't always trust your gut instinct. A woman will ignore her natural instincts and put what the man wants first, because she is trying to please him. He will become ever more demanding and no matter what she does, it's never good enough.

This is what erodes self esteem and self confidence. Many women in the sex industry feel like this and don't even realise sometimes that they actually do have a choice. Many others, of course, don't have a choice.

In a relationship it's best to trust your own judgement. If it feels wrong, or uncomfortable, or you even question it a tiny bit, then I would say, don't do it. Not until you are sure that you are truly happy. What if your very good friend asked your opinion, or your daughter. What would you advise them, that is sometimes a good guide.

I know a burlesque dancer, she doesn't strip to a g-string, she uses those big feathers to cover everything up. That's the art of the dance. Otherwise, they are just stripping tbh. Her parents goes to watch her dance sometimes and take their friends. Her husband goes to if it's a special night for her. They are all completely comfortable with it. It is a very theatrical performance.

There is a difference between admiring and objectifying Loving. Your dp presumably loves you and is caring and considerate and would stop whatever he was doing the moment you indicated him to? That's not objectification, that's a natural, loving relationship. If he is doing/saying anything you're not entirely comfortable with, tell him to stop. If he doesn't then it's a problem.

TheYoniKeeper · 13/04/2013 08:25

for me, I can't be 'ok' with my partner watching more than a little porn and am thrilled DP watches less than I actually thought & is more reasonable about it than I expected him to be.

This is because of my personal views on porn & some bad experiences with a nasty ex who was into all that very much so & I strongly believe it affected the way he viewed & valued women as a result.

I posted here because I wasn't sure if I should let it lie or bring it up with DP, as it's such a controversial subject & I find it hard sometimes not to be biased because of that ex.

I do think that couples sort of objectify each other a little, but it's a very different sort of objectification. Not all objectification is negative but I feel the type that's encouraged by porn/glamour shots etc is .

I hope that makes sense Smile