dh lying over counselling?

[phoenix2]

long back round story. but basically myself and dh seperated last year due to his temper etc. after about ten months i allowed him to move back in. this was on the basis that he had gotten counselling for his temper and other shi*ty behaviour. so last summer for about 6 weeks he would call to see the children on a particular evening and then rush off to his counselling and it looked like he really was going. he even said it was very good etc.

so in nov he slipped up and roared at me over something small. i got really upset (as he was supposed to have dealt with his anger problems). so next day i got online and found who i was 99% sure was the counsellor he was going to and asked him if i could ask him about my dh. well guess what he never heard of my dh. was unsure of myself as i thought maybe i had gotten the wrong counsellor - but this is highly unlikely.

anyway, we patched things up again and xmas came around and we got on with things. and i guess i blanked out my suspicions that he had lied about going to the counselling. but last week i just couldnt stop thinking about it. so i said to dh the other nite that i would like to go for a few sessions with his counsellor and asked him for his number.

he said he didnt have his number, then he said he couldnt remember his name, then he said he didnt think i should go to counselling - that there was no need, then he said i should go back to my own counsellor, and finally after i kept pursuing it he said he didnt think it was appropriate for me to go to see his counsellor becuase he didnt like him or find him any good!!

am i mad to be in any doubt that he never went to see him at all. i didnt outright accuse him but i said i would find out his name myself and get an appointment - thought this might get him to admit it.

he was really upset (not angry) and said he really needs me to stand by him and that he loves me and our dc's and he will try harder and do more etc

i kind of feel sorry for him - its like he is not able to change fully even though he has come along way - i feel like he knows the game is up and i dont know how he will cope with that. he could get very upset or very angry but i feel he will be more despairing than angry as he knows he cant get away with that anymore

please advise. is this lie a deal breaker? and do ye think he is definately lying?

Yes he's definitely lying and yes it should be a deal breaker.

He must have behaved pretty appallingly for you to have separated for 10 months and demanded he seek counselling in the first place - him lying about doing what you asked is a sign that he doesn't think he really did anything wrong and moreover that he thinks you're stupid.

I would tell him straight out that it looks like he isn't telling you the truth and that he needs to explain himself or leave. Don't be fooled into feeling sorry for him, he doesn't feel very sorry about making you the victim of his abuse.

thanks for the reply,
i am just shocked that he would be so completely stupid to lie about this. you should have seen him rushing his dinner etc to get to his counselling on time! he even called afterwards one evening to ask if he could move back in. he was probably in the pub instead. why would he not just have gone to it? like you say he prob thinks he didnt need it.

he must be a very disturbed person. he has been really trying to be a good guy recently. but he just seems to have these weird issues that wont go away. we have slept together for months - i just cant bring myself to. i guess if you cant trust someone then its impossible to find them even remotely attractive. lies and deceit are very unattractive.

If you don't stand your ground, the message you're sending him is that you don't mind being treated badly. It's just not credible that he can't remember his counsellor's name or that he doesn't have a number for him!

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this and hope you are ok.

I remember my counsellors name, and i havent seen her in a year.

hes not getting help at all, hes just controlling his anger (because he can!!) because you've pulled him up on it, he needs to be told straight, get help or lose his family, you cant keep living under this weight.

To be fair, no counsellor should even confirm that someone is a client if some random calls them, unless they have their client's express permission.

It actually doesn't matter if he went to counselling - 6 weeks sounds like a ridiculously short time to deal with anger issues etc, and it clearly wasn't enough.
Seeing a counsellor doesn't magically make everything better.

he's lying, no doubt about that. I wonder where was he really going in the evenings because it definitely wasn't counselling...

I tink i am a bit nervous. I agree he does seem to be able to control his anger now but i am worried that if his back is against the wall (which it will be if i confront him) that he will decide not to control his anger IYKWIM.

Weird incident by the way a couple weeks ago that kind of freaked me out. We were in a car park and dh was about to reverse into a space. Some one else drove into it before him and dh went all strange. The car that took the space had three tough looking dudes in it. When the driver got out dh just kept staring at him and went completely quiet and pale. You could see he was about to blow but held onto it. So the other driver starts putting his arms up as if to say 'whats your problem' and was clearly a hot head too. My 3 dc's were in the back. I didnt even go into the shopping centre after that i told him to go in instead - was really on edge. As i say it was strange becuase not one word was spoken about it. I am confused by this person who still obviously feels huge anger over small things that would only mildly annoy the rest of us but is able to hang onto his temper.

Confused, nervous, hope im not overreacting etc

"i kind of feel sorry for him "

Have an un-Mumsnetty slap round the chops with a wet kipper... :) He's manipulating you. Tried to scare you into submission with the Mr Angry act and it backfired. So he lied about counselling, transformed into Mr Nice Guy and that had the desired effect.... until (as it always does with this type) the mask slipped.

The fact that he can hold his temper when faced with 'three tough looking dudes' means he is a coward that simply chooses to bully you... because it's easy.

Interesting about how he could control his temper when faced with guys he knew he wouldnt win against. I kinda thought he was just working through his issues internally! how naieve am i? its just so alien to me this type of behaviour. i literally dont know anyone else like this and yet i married into it. am so tired of it. but so scared of the future. obviously the parking the car incident is only one example. there are many. like this eve his phone was ringing and he let it go to voice mail. then he listened to vm and our dc's were hanging out of him but he was far away in his mind. like he had heavy news hanging over him. in the past i would have worried what was wrong but now i really dont care am sick of worrying about him and all the crap he invites on himself. i think he wont cope with losing his family and i literally dread the thoughts of having this man moping around with all his issues for the rest of mine and my dcs life. how do i move on and get this mess finished with? i feel so responsible for it all. i always new he was a bit of a bad egg but i thought the good would outweigh the bad in the long run - cause i really loved him. now i just feel like crap for having ruined my life, his and our dc's by playing along. hope im making sense. i should have left him after the first 2 years. 12 years later here i am.

He can only drag you down with his problems if you a) give him air-time to do it and b) feel you are in some way responsible. You're really not. If he's an angry, miserable bully that is entirely his decision. If he forfeits the right to be part of your family through his behaviour, again that's a situation of his making.

How you move on is to make some concrete moves towards finishing it. Getting him to leave, getting legal advice and engaging the support of friends and family. If you feel you've wasted the last 12 years then don't compound the mistake by letting this drag on any longer. You will feel a great burden has been lifted once you can detach from him properly and, you never know, he may be a lousy husband but he could be a very good co-parent.

bump

I'm a counsellor and a) I wouldn't tell you if I even knew your DH let alone if he was a client, completely unethical!! b) I would never consider you as a client because of your DH having been my client, I would question your reason for seeing me and politely refuse to take you on.
6 weeks is the stand time frame for any counselling, it is extended only if client and myself agree. A lot of work can be done in those weeks. It does need to be topped up at times though.
You don't know for a fact if he is lying and jumping to conclusions won't help.
What I would say is tell him he needs to go back or find another therapist and you find you own.

Phoenix2,

I remember you from before (you have written about your H at some length and over a period of years) and your H has not changed one single jot. He is still manipulating you and you're still allowing him to do this to you and by turn your children.

Yes he is definitely lying and yes this should be a dealbreaker for you.

Im back!

An awful lot of water under the bridge since i last posted.
DH finally admitted he didnt go to counselling. Glad i am not paranoid - was relieved actually to be proven right IYKWIM.
He had alot of foolish excuses for not going - all of them in the relm of what a toddler might say if they were caught out doing - ridiculous stuff.

So after alot ALOT of too-ing and fro-ing i have finally got him out of my house. We had agreed a couple of weeks ago that he would stay away 4 nights a weeks (instead of commuting to work) - this was the short term solution until we figured out a longer term plan as he was talking about moving abroad for a while for work.Anyway, last weekend was a complete nightmare.

I think he was quite hungover on sat but man was he in a weird mood. Started the day by bringing me up a cuppa to my room (which i didnt want) but he really nicely said drink that and go back to sleep il look after the kids. so i was very upset that a half hour later he came up and woke me up saying i hadnt drank my tea and thats the last time he would ever make it for me etc etc. Ranting over something that i hadnt even asked for.

Then my aunt phoned so i went upstairs to chat to her in peace as the house was busy with four kids here - he came up twice with a face like thunder and then started calling me to say my lunch was ready. Not in a nice way of course. in a way that said im not happy with you on the phone up there! so i came downstairs and he said it was very weird of me to be talking on the phone like that with the door closed and i must have alot of secrets etc. I dont usually cry but the tears just came to my eyes with the shittyness of it all.

SOO i told him sun that he was way out of line and that i would prefer if he stayed 5 nights that coming week (as in leave on that day) that i couldnt stand listening to him crap for another day. So the big fool got into a mood and said thats fine he would leave for good altogether and he left with a huge bag of clothes and said i could pack up the rest of his stuff during the week and he would collect it.thathe was going to stay with his dad for the foreseeable etc.

great stuff i thought that was easy! but guess what monday he said he hadnt moved out he had just left for the 5 nights like i asked.My mind was in a whirl - there was me thinking he had moved out and then he says that wasnt what had happended at all.

sorry am starting to bore myself now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! am going to have a glass of vino...........there is more to tell.........please dont get bored i need to get this all off my chest....

I'm sorry, Phoenix, but you are letting this happen by not getting rid of him for good. You can't keep increasing and decreasing the nights he stays depending on how "good" he's been. He's a horrible, controlling bully and he is dragging you down. You honestly deserve a life away from him.

Have you got a solicitor? If you want him out you will have to make it happen. What's happened since Monday? Are you ok now?

GetStuffezd your so right i know.

I told him in no uncertain terms that he had moved out as far as i was concerned and that he wasnt moving back in. He got annoyed with me that i had told my brother what was going on. (that was tues)

then thurs we had to attend school play for our dd - so after he came back to the house to see the kids and we had a long chat where he told me he had started counselling (yawn) and that he knows he has issues and that i am right and that of course i need to speak to my bro about things for support.

then today he came to see the kids and asked me if i would do the counselling with him to see if we could resolve the issues that he loves me etc. so i told him it is over that i wont spent years waiting around for him to get his sh*t together. of course he retaliated by saying that if im not willing to co-operate then he wont be able to give me any money every week. i stood up to him and said i wont be threatened by him and that the day has long passed that i alow him to bully me when i dont do what he wants. that i had given him all the chances he is going to get and that he will never get me back.

heres the weird bit. we then went to a fun fare which is visiting our town for a few days with the dc's and they had a ball. i would love to think we can be friends and co-parents and do stuff like that but i know deep down this is really only stringing him along.

why oh why do i feel so damn awful about all of this? he is staying i a hotel and i feel a bit bad for him and about 10% of me is wondering if perhaps if he actually went to counselling this time could there be any hope for us. on the other hand i am mightily relieved he is gone and i have a lovely home with noone playing mind games with me.

why do i feel responsible for him even in a tiny way. he looks so heartbroken. an act i know but its hard not to feel bad about it al - even though i know none of this has been my doing.

all of that has happened between us has been text book abusive relationship stuff i suppose my feelings now are text book reactions to him being gone but can anyone advise me how to move on from him. my mind flits from relief to anger, to sadness and even crazy feeling that i still love him.........

Your last sentence speaks volumes. You are going to make yourself mentally unwell because this type of shitbag knows how to keep you guessing. You don't know whether he'll be lovely or vile, whether he'll be pleased about something or go into a rage - you're comstantly second guessing and it's so draining. I have been there.
What's your financial situation, if you don't mind me asking?

I had a fab counsellor 2 years ago but can't remember her name. I think my head was just v full at the time. And she was great.

I don't know what to suggest but if your relationship is much better it seems a shame to walk away

Sorry just saw your last post!

Have you got a counsellor? I need mine to stop stbxh screwing my head up. Helps sort out the crazy mix of emotions of a split. Not listening to him would be ideal, but impossible when you need to sort out contact with kids etc. So you have told your brother, can you tell anyone else so you have more support?

am out of work on ill for the past year and last week they told me i will be made redundant - acutally relieved about this. so am on benefits and H has been giving me a pretty generous amount each week which stemmed from the maintenance order i got when we were seperated last year. i imagine he will reduce that in the very near future. i have a huge mortgage in my name and am on payment break for a few months at the mo. will get a few quid redundancy in the next month or so.

basically i will have to claim insolvency as i will never be able to pay back the mortgage - couldnt have even if he was still here - and am also ok about that.

so in a nutshell i will have to live on benefits for the foreseable which is pretty much where i was 15 years ago but fought tooth and nail to build a career buy a house etc etc and that meant so much to me at the time but now i dont care about any of that - have been through so much over the past 5 years that i dont care that i have to claim benefits until i get myself sorted again.

all of this stress has really impacted on my physical and mental health and have been diagnosed with mild depression and am seeing a counsellor. dont feel she is much good though. have a long road to go.

bigstrongmama - i havent told another sole (except ye!). i havent the strength to cope with all the opinions and pity and intrigue and generally voyeuristic(?) behaviour.

when we split last year i couldn't stop talking about all i had been through with my family and a couple of close friends and i felt so let down when they all turned out to be completely useless. everyone was so interested in the story of what had happened that they completely forgot i needed actual practical help not just a load of garbage talk like for example my mum telling me he never loved me or respected me anyway "not for a single minute" not like my sis H loves and respects her (thought this was a completely unnecessary and hurtful evaluation of the previous ten years of my life). Or other family calling to see "how i was" and staying for hours on end with their kids in toe and eating me out of house and home and then leaving when the place was thrashed.

also a barring order was involved the last time and i swore my family and friends to secrecy i was like a parrot every day telling them not to tell anyone for the sake of my dc's. was so disappointed to discover that my bro got drunk and told his friend who is the biggest lush you could ever meet who in turn told everyone else. and my mother who thinks she is a saint told anyone who asked her how i was the whole story - good old catholic guilt - she cant tell lies or even just give concise answers like shes fine thanks for asking!

i ended up being hospitalised last time for 2 weeks with a mysterious viral infection that had almost completely wiped out my immune system and had to be isolated for fear of further infection which might kill me.

so am not keen to draw all that on myself again. i live in a very small town where people thrive on gossip like this and its very hard to face up to it.

Yikes! Fair enough not to tell them the whole story if that is their kind of support. Could you maybe tell them he is leaving for 'very good personal reasons which you don't want to go into'? Don't give them any fuel for gossip, but be matter of fact that it is over and that you need them on side.

absolutely i would be stoic this time (when i get the courage up) and say something like what you suggested. you certainly do learn from your mistakes!
strangely i feel angrier at them for their betrayal than i do at H. is it because they were supposed to be on my side or because i am suffering from some type of stockholm syndrome where he is concerned i wonder??