Does your h phone you with stuff to do for them? What is reasonable and what is not?

[feelokaboutit]

I may be being unreasonable - please be gentle if you think I am...

To set the scene - h and I have a difficult relationship where no affection or love is shown. He is difficult to talk to, short tempered and bossy.

He has gone away to work for a few days (develop a property he owns) and is staying in a static campsite. He rang this morning to ask if I could chase up a package he had sent for a customer. I did this and rang him back with the info.

He then rang again and asked me to find the local number to the campsite he is staying in and tell them that the toilet in the caravan he is staying in is leaking. Part of me was thinking why can't he pop in to the office and talk to them as the place he is developing is literally next to the campsite - but probably would have just accepted he wanted this doing. He then said could I also tell them that they had booked a "silver" caravan and what they were given is definitely not of that standard. At this point I said why couldn't he go in to the office and tell them as it would make more sense than me phoning on their behalf from more that 100 miles away, having not seen the caravan etc.... He did say he was not near the office but I didn't find out where he actually was as at that point he was shouting etc...

He mimicked the way I said "on my behalf" in a really horrible way.... Acted all scathing and scornful, so I said fine, I would phone them, and hung up.

I looked up the campsite and found only the national number on the screen. Was considering phoning them up and asking for a local number but thought - no forget it. Plus his attitude and unkind way of talking and the fact that he only ever phones me to get me to do stuff - NEVER - to ask how I am etc, mean that I somehow lose the will to live. On top of which the dcs and I had a terrible morning getting to school today and I was really upset about that.

He rang a couple of times after that but I ignored the phone. Then this afternoon, when I was seeing my son's teacher (parents' afternoon) he rang twice but I was unable to pick the phone up. I then phoned him back thinking surely he must have moved on from this morning. But no. He asked me if I had phoned the campsite and I said no since there was no local number listed. He then started shouting as to why I hadn't phoned him or texted him to tell him this. I lied and told him I had been volunteering (which I sometimes do at my kids' school).... my point being that sometimes people are busy with their own stuff....

What I really would have liked to have said is that I am fed up with being so unloved and the potential daily bait for his displeasure.

Anyway, disregarding the fact that we have a lot of baggage and stuff we have not dealt with, should I have made more of an effort to phone the campsite on his behalf??

My DH and I both work full time in pretty stressful jobs. We both help each other out when it's easier for one party than the other eg I might pick up a parcel for him as its nearer to my work than his. However, we both ask (rather than assume) and we do so nicely.

Your DH is treating you like an unpaid skivvy. You do actually have a job running the household and looking after the children plus other activities you have described.

Is he being unreasonable re: asking about the campsite. Not really if he is very busy and it would be easier for you to pick up the phone rather than him taking time out from work to go to the office (though I am not convinced it IS easier - rather he is lazy, but I'll give the benefit of he doubt). He is being totally unreasonable though by being rude and assuming his issues top trump all you are dealing with.

Sounds to me like its not really just about this one incident though. This just sums up his attitude to you in general - he comes first, you must do as you are told, he shows disrespect, you show contempt in return.

I wouldn't focus on this incident per se I would look at the balance of the relationship as a whole and start to think about if you want address it and how you might do so.

he might not have been unreasonable about asking you to call the campsite, but as soo as he started mocking you and being nasty about it, then he was being U.

although quite frankly, if he's not grown up enough to go to the office himself then he is definitely U.

To set the scene - h and I have a difficult relationship where no affection or love is shown. He is difficult to talk to, short tempered and bossy

I'd do fuck all for him other than organise divorce papers.

You do actually have a job running the household and looking after the children plus other activities you have described. thanks YellowTulip - yes it's an odd thing being the one at home who is unpaid but who still has a "job"...

I am not a good housekeeper which is one of h's criticisms but really, I would love to get away for a bit if I could Bluelightsandsirens!! I was on my own at the weekend as h took the dc up to see his mother for a day and a half and I found myself feeling a lot more relaxed and confident about what I need to do (ie. find work etc...). That feeling disappears as soon as real life kicks in again.

I don't know how to address the relationship Yellow. H and I went to counselling for a bit last year but that fell apart when we had one particularly heated argument there and h then said he would no longer go. The only thing I can think is that I need to make sure I myself am as happy and fulfilled as possible independently of h. Much easier said than done though.

After he was getting annoyed with me this afternoon on the phone and I hung up, I didn't hear from him again today. He rang the dc on the landline this evening and spoke to our youngest dd (7). She then came into the room telling the other two that Daddy said to tell them he loves them. I find myself feeling really awful then - it's getting used, over and over again, that things are not like that between us. So I get the calls asking me to do things, they get the calls telling them they are loved. I don't begrudge them this, but I do feel sad for me . Silly really, because there is a lot about the irrational/paranoid side to h's nature that I really don't like (he does also have a side that I do like in a distant kind of way) so why would I want him to be telling me he loves me?

You need to leave.

But you won't.

Instead you'll post threads about some - in the scheme of things - minor incidents, while ignoring the real issues and your own inertia about them.

This reminds me of the OP who recently posted a thread about her husband not painting a fence, but then let slip that he took secret photos of women from beneath their skirts while he was behind them on the tube.........

The post office and caravan are your equivalent of that OP's unpainted fence.

I didn't get past the first paragraph.

There was no need to read on.
You deserve more, and will
Probably be happier single looking for it.

'I don't know how to address the relationship'

Serious question here: why is it you don't want to separate from him? He sounds incredibly difficult to live with and really unpleasant to you. Is it about money, about not feeling you've 'failed', about being worried he is justified in his complaints - what is it? Folks here will be able to reason it through with you. But it seems to me like the one thing that'd make you undisputably happier would be not to be with him as a couple (obviously you would still need to co-ordinate parenting the kids) yet you don't seem to even want to consider that. What makes you think you should stay with him?

He is a difficult person yes. He isn't always unpleasant, it is mainly that we are not open, kind or affectionate with each other so therefore our relationship has kind of died. He is very self-protective / defensive.

Part of me thinks he is justified in some of his complaints - it's true. Mainly it's that we have 3 dc (7, 9 and 11), and I am scared of a whole load of stuff when I think about having to split their family up, be apart from them for up to 50% of the time, where would I live, how would I live, would h become really nasty about stuff to do with trying to co-parent etc etc... And the whole adjustment of simply not being there to protect them (in general I mean, not from h who is generally very affectionate with them).

They went to see their Grandma this weekend and it's the first time I haven't come at all (there was one occasion when I came a day later), and it was odd hearing of all the stuff they had done with aunties etc.... Obviously I wasn't needed at all which I know is the point of bringing up children - so that they can become independent.... I think h's family are all pretty much like him - undemonstrative and do not ask questions / find out about people, if you are there you are there, if not, not. It is the children who are of utmost importance and the adults are the vehicles by which the children get there. Anyway, I am digressing...

And yes, feeling like a failure and money do come into it as well. I do not have huge (if any at the moment as I haven't worked for 11 years ) earning potential. I did a course to become a teaching assistant and volunteer at my kids' school. I went to one interview last year and applied to a few jobs but they are (despite the poor pay) like gold dust. Really I should put my name down with some agencies but for some reason I never get around to doing that. Lack of confidence in a way and not wanting to be judged for not being in my 20s (am 44)....

I would suggest some counselling just for you. You need to work on your self esteem and direction in life rather than your relationship right now. You can't change your DH, the only thing you can change is how you deal with him and how you live your life.

Why do you think you are worth so little that you put up with this miserable toxic lifestyle that is sucking all the joy out of you?

Chaz, your attitude is indeed brilliant. OP, that is simple, solid advice from Chaz.

OP, he sees you as a servant. You wouldn't tell your children's nanny you loved them if you rang up to speak to them, would you? You're not even that to him. But witnessing their mother being treated so coldly and dismissively, and a lack of love and care between their parents in general, is v damaging for the Dc and will adversely affect them in their future relationships.

Do work on your self esteem but at the same time consider the practicalities of leaving. Because you are main carer and married you have very little to fear in terms of how to survive. You will have to prepare yourself for entrusting him with the children on a regular basis and sharing them with their extended family. But do take this slowly because we(!) need to determine how safe you are. Does he scare you in any way?

A question: do you ring him, or feel able to ring him, to ask him to do errands for you?

Underlying question: is there a fair exchange of helpfulness?

Further underlying questions: does he ask because he believes there is a fair exchange and hasn't actually realised his impact? Or is he just selfishly expecting services and doesn't care if it's fair exchange or not?

YY to the above. Sending you on (embarrassing, impossible) errands and telling the children he loves them but not you, is ment to keep you preoccupied with him while he's not there to make you feel nervous in person. He doesn't want you to relax when you're alone, because he knows to which conclusion you will come.

A guy who can't manage to phone the office of the campsite where he is staying is not going to obtain 50% residency of his children.

I think the whole point about the phone call was to point out that his work is important and he must not be disturbed for a single, solitary minute with mindless trivia. Your job, on the other hand, consists of nothing but mindless trivia and therefore you have infinite flexibility to handle these details. But actually he wasn't working, was he? He was developing a property that you (he?) own so in effect investing in the family corporation in the same way that you do, through labour which is indirectly contributing to the family coffers.

There certainly are things I think it's reasonable to ask the stay at home spouse to do. Go to the post office, for example - provided there is one locally. Or dealing with the school since it's only open during office hours. But I once read a story of a Hollywood star who phoned their assistant in New York to scream at them to phone the reception of the hotel they were staying in in Cannes to tell them there was the wrong kind of bottled water in the room, or something. His behaviour reeks of that.

I often do little tasks for DH when he is out - eg reading the gas meter so he can submit the numbers, pick up a Freecycle he's won.

The differences: (1) he asks nicely in the first place (2) he doesn't get stroppy if it isn't convenient, and (3) he only asks me to do things he can't actually do himself.

From the OP, the parcel stuff was reasonable, looking up the number was reasonable, making the complaint was not reasonable.

If an employee were treated like you are treated, they'd have a claim for constructive dismissal.

OP my ex was just like yours. We didn't have kids together but he had three with his ex-wife. He treated me like a skivvy and made ridiculous demands, then made me feel stupid and worthless when I couldn't achieve them. I worked full time, as did he, but I was expected to do all the cooking, cleaning, tidying etc and if it wasn't done to his liking then I got the cold shoulder.

I am a people pleaser, always have been, and he saw that and took total advantage. He also showed me no affection and I was frightened of him because he could fly into a rage for the most inconsequential reason. It was entirely about control, and I realised I neither liked nor respected him and therefore what was the point of continuing?

I split with him shortly after. He tried every guilt trip in the book to get me to take him back, but I stood firm. He was an arsehole of galactic proportions and I am so much happier without him in my life.

The point I forgot to make in my waffle above was that he was always asking me to do him favours, even if it made more sense for him to do them. His way of asking included sly hints that he would make life a bit difficult if I didn't help.

I never felt I could ask him for help. My car died and on the one occasion I asked for a lift he had an excuse. All this despite me going out of my way to help when his own car had been written off. In short: I was a mug and he knew it.

you say you can't resolve arguments - obviously you can't. that's because to 'resolve' an argument two people need to be willing to acknowledge the others feelings and needs and compromise on an outcome. that won't be an option in your relationship because only his feelings and needs matter and it's his way or nothing.

there is no way forward with a man like this OP. it's put up and shut up or get out. he doesn't see you as a real person with real feelings and thoughts and needs that MATTER.

but they do matter - seriously they do! and their mattering is not dependent on you being perfect, having zero faults or failings, being the perfect housekeeper etc etc etc. they just matter! just because you are alive and a human being. but not to him because of HIS issues not yours.

no affection, no love, no compromise, no politeness, no decency - really there's nothing is there? this isn't the relationship you want your children to grow up seeing and never seeing an end to is it?

what was your father like? i too think your sister's attitude is telling. it could be because your parents were the same or because it was your job to be the scapegoat who should put up with shit and not have needs in your family of origin too so she feels fine that way about you.

incidentally your description of his family whereby children are all that matter and adults are just the things that bear them rang bells for me about my own family which is ruled by a narcissist. children are more 'thing' like and gratifying for these kind of people and easier to project onto. adults require you to be able to see a whole person and interact with them and accept challenges from them. they tend to go off the children when they get older and get minds of their own and prove to be actual people rather than what is being projected onto them for the adults gratification.

(unless they are willing to continue to be defined by them and to be an object of projection that exists for their gratification - and that is a very sad fate imo)

I would have been ok to phone the campsite but only because there is such a lot of goodwill towards each other in my relationship with DH that has been built up over time. I wouldn't do it for a man who treated me like shite.

You may think you can't leave because you have no self esteem. However, it's the other way around. You have no self esteem at least in part because you don't leave. You mentioned that you felt better about yourself when he wasn't around but as soon as he came back you felt shite again. He is almost certainly belittling you on purpose because you're easier to push around if you lack confidence.

At the very least, go see a solicitor to find out what you would be entitled to if you left. You have one life. Is this really the way you want to live it?

You need to do something for yourself.

Your kids are all at school. Do some courses work on your employability, do some volunteering, do some counselling alone.

Do you want to live another 10 years like this? Even if you do what the hell are you going to do for yourself in 10 years when your kids start leaving?

jobs wise do look at your local FE colleges website - if they're anything like ours there are frequently admin and learning support type roles being advertised with part time hours and term time only very often. certainly no worse pay than primary school and usually a bit better.