What makes an abuser an abuser?

[BoringTheBuilder]

My exH was EA and it took me many years to finally realise what he was doing. Even when he kicked me out of the relationship I still thought it was all my fault and it has taken me 7 years, one child and another marriage to even begin to realise that he has a problem, not me.
But now I wonder why people turn out like this and do their best to hurt people who really just care about them and just show them love and appreciation? Fair enough if they don't feel the same way, but why they insisting in hurting and humiliating their partners like a cat playing with a mouse?

I guess it could be related to unhappy childhood/problems with parents?

There are various reasons, really. Some people grew up with an abusive parent, and are repeating what they learned (though many people who are raised by abusers actually try very hard to make their own adult relationships healthy and free from abuse and many succeed). Some people are born with what you might call faulty brains: they simply do not accept that other people matter, or are even real. To this type of person, the only thing that matters is MEMEMEME, everyone else exists for the person's benefit and amusement, and must be punished for failing to give the person what the person wants at any given time.

And in a lot of cases, a man has grown up with a deep and unbreakable conviction that women are not really people, but somewhere between domestic appliances and domestic pets: they exist to serve and gratify their male owners.

I didn't know one of the possibilities could be a faulty brain.....I think in my exH's case this is more likely. Don't think he had abusive parents even though he didn't like talking about his family/childhood that much. As for the 3rd option, I'm not sure he expected to be served., he was far too willing to share 'everything' including housework...I thought it was work as a team, now I see it was another way to control and dominate. He expected me to have a shower everyday with him, not because he wanted a cheeky play time in the bathroom but to control my time and make sure I was clean. Eventually once I started going to the gym (because he forced me to) I was allowed to have my showers alone over there (but he probably was already with OW at that time so needed to keep me occupied and out of the house to justify his own absence)

Not liking talking about his childhood is a pretty good sign it wasn't too happy, I'd think.

Most often abusers have suffered or been witness to abuse in childhood.

This is not the same as saying abusees will always become abusers.

I recently heard quite an eminent scientist specialising in human behaviour explain their theory that quite a lot of someone's personality is almost pre-set and that parental and other environmental influences are relatively minor by comparison. She was arguing that the emphasis was far more weighted to 'nature' than 'nurture'. If you have children yourself I think you kind of see that in action. We can reward/punish behaviour appropriately, we can set good examples and we can teach morality, but personality is very deep and tends not to change. She was very reassuring, therefore, that as parents we can neither blame ourselves if we spawn a wrong'un any more than we can congratulate ourselves if they turn out OK. :)

I think abusive people start out fundamentally selfish in personality and go on to develop ways to get what they want. If that means being charming, persuasive, manipulative, violent, cruel or whatever, their common denominator is that they are motivated purely by self-interest & either enjoy seeing others suffer or simply don't see them as relevant unless they are providing a means to an end.

Do they really enjoy seen others suffer or they don't even realise others are suffeering even when it is obvious, since they are so wraped up in themselves??

I think it's a mix of both. We are all, to some extent, guilty of schadenfreude from time to time. For others, it goes way beyond that and they are not content with a moral victory or a physical win. The other person has to be humiliated or brought low in the process. Call it cruelty, bullying, abuse, or whatever you like... there has to be a victim involved for it to be satisfactory.

Yes there are those that are simply blind to the discomfort of others and lack any form of empathy. More thoughtless than malicious. My experience is that this kind of person can be successfully tackled, and if you point out the hurt they often appear bewildered or occasionally they apologise. But the cruel person actively wants you to be hurt.... so pointing it out simply confirms that they're doing a great job.

A man who thinks it's OK to check your cleanliness is getting a kick (possibly sexual) out of your humiliation. That's not thoughtlessness, it's cruelty

I think sometimes it happens when someone feels really crappy and just takes it out on someone else.

Or is really threatened or scared by the other person's apparent behaviour and this comes out in a way that is quite destructive.

There have been times when telling off ds1 for something I just DO not understand, something he's done that is beyond what I can really identify with - like destroying something on purpose, maybe - only a few incidents in the past - when my telling off hasn't seemed enough and I've gone OTT and told him things that are pretty hurtful, like say8ing he always destroys everything etc. which isn't true but can seem that way when I am really shocked by something.

And that felt like it tipped over the edge from angry to abusive in a way - no need for it, but I couldn't seem to find a way to express to him that what he had done was bad. I think my own fear that he will turn out to be a vandal, or something ridiculous like that, got in the way of rationality and made me panic.

It's not a good feeling. Fear I think makes people abusive.

and I think they realise the other person is suffering but their own feelings are out of control - not out of their control but like when you take the lid off a bottle and you've shaken it, and you can't put the lid back on. Or you could with a great effort but it is pretty difficult to back down from that place I think.

In short fear of losing control - of you, or something they feel responsible for - that's why it happens in relationships and once you have left, often that breaks the spell as they no longer feel like they will be reflected on if you step out of line iyswim.

What you're describining RooneyMara isn't abuse it's anger. An angry reaction triggered by a specifc event and borne, as you say, out of fear, but also the inability to articulate, frustration, lack of coping techniques, ignorance. It would escalate to the kind of abuse the OP is talking about if you sustained that anger way beyond the trigger or used the threat of the anger to manipulate others' behaviour and force them to submit. I don't think the OP's ex humiliated her out of fear, do you?

Yes I do - possibly. that doesn't make it Ok though. And I haven't thought it through to a vast extent - I was trying to process my thoughts in the posts I just wrote, and I think I got somewhere.

I think he was perhaps? afraid of the impact on him if she did certain things, (because he is fucked up - not because they were wrong or bad) and he was trying to control her using whatever method he could.

I'm not trying to defend any of it. But I think fear is probably at the root of a lot of abuse.

The only people bullies are afraid of are those who are bigger, uglier and more powerful than them. When they meet one of those, they turn into obsequious cowards.... :) Bullies will frequently choose those who appear vulnerable or easily dominated but will quite often select outwardly strong, independent women to creush.... not because they fear them but because they enjoy the challenge of bringing someone like that low.

A man who thinks it's OK to check your cleanliness is getting a kick (possibly sexual) out of your humiliation. That's not thoughtlessness, it's cruelty It was to make it clear to me that I would never be as good as he was in anything, not even cleaning myself. And I'm a pretty clean person. But obviously not enough for his standards. He would share the housework with me and check everything I done and criticise and make me do it again, nothing never ever was good enough. And the hardest part was that he actually WAS a intelligent, high achiever, good looking, great at sports (any), creative, good cook, hard working and a charming person, so it was difficult to challenge him as I wasn't as hard working, had problems at school and UNI never reaching my potential, not good at sports, shy....But why, even tough now I realise I missed so many red flags prior marriage, why the hardcore abuse starts once the papers are signed? Seems so cold and calculated.

His mum came to visit us once (we lived in another country) and he put her name on the cleaning rota. She was assigned the toilet. He checked after her cleaning and wasn't happy and complained, went on and cleaned it again straight away after she had finished even telling her what she done wrong and how he likes it. I was gobsmacked. Also going for walks, he would chose difficult rotas with hills and hold my hand and dash forward in front of her leaving her behind, because she was to slow to keep up. Now, we like walking, but for a woman her age to keep up with us after a whole day of walking was challenging....I wanted to walk alongside her but obviously he wouldn't let that happen. Funny is, when I kind of started to open up to her that things were getting weird and I suspected OW, she wasn't interested in listening and cut the conversation sharp implying that I was obviously doing something wrong/it was my fault. Which just made me doubt myself even more.

I think part of it can be that often these men have been brought up by parents who had an abusive relationship - so that kind of behaviour is 'normal' to them. Also then, they do not understand normal 'boundaries' of what is acceptable behaviour and what is 'deal breaking' behaviour, I think. An ex of mine (long, long ago, thank god) seemed to truly believe he could say and do anything but as long as he was sorry the next day, we were (and should be) still together. When I left him and told him his behaviour had killed any feelings I had for him, he was absolutely shocked that I could end it - I think because his parents had always stayed together, despite treating each other abysmally.

I can only speak for my STBXH but I think it was living with an abusive father, however, he chose to continue the abusive cycle. His Mum is still with his Dad and is his servant and has to watch what she says, asks permission for everything and I can see her fear at times. Although I have G.Father in my house (once per month to collect DC) I talk around him and never talk directly to him, I find it hard to look at him tbh

My DS1 is so much like his father in looks and mannerisms he thought it was inevitable he would 'hit his girlfriends' in reality, although he looks and acts like his father his personality is different (I hope) he is going for counselling as is my youngest DS and I hope this will help as youngest DS can be very abusive, he is 8 and full of anger an frustration which he takes out full pelt on me.

I blamed STBXHs parents, in meeting with WA but was advised my XH had a choice. I still don't know.

I think you are born with the really bad personality disorders - sociopathy and psychopathy - brain scans of these people show very low activity in certain areas of the brain - as if that bit didn't form properly. some work can be done to improve them but as it usually discovered in adulthood, most of the potential to change it as the brain develops has been lost.

Suffers of post traumatic stress disorder also seem to have brain activity that is not normal - they have a low ability to recognise sadness and fear complared to the genral population - as though their experiences have shut down parts of the brain - these people can be helped but suffer dreadfully.

Some people learn abusive patterns by being abused themselves, alhtough it is not a hard and fast relationship (otherwise everyone released from WW2 concetration camps would have turned into murderers and sadists and this did not happen).

Personality is shaped by experiences - but you can't turn an extrovert into an introvert without some kind of massive life trauma.

So some behaviour is learned and some you are born with. Some things can be taught and some behaviours modified - for instance I am a very angry person, but I do not express my anger publicly or hit people - becuase I have been taught this is wrong, and I moderate my behaviour within socially accepted norms. If I had not been taught these when a child I probably would shout and scream in the street and hit DD on a regular basis - but I don't, and never have. When I feel an anger burst I walk off, and only discuss issues after I've calmed down. I am self aware - abusers lack self awareness I think, and also never consider other people as human, or worthy of consideration. empathy should develop in childhood - but for some it gets stunted or just doesn't happen.

My DD is a lovely happy child - if hse was told daily she was crap and worthless and was hit regularly, I have no doubt her personality would be very very different - as she would have to develop defence mechanisms.

It would be really interesting to hear statistics or get a picture of how abuse escalates (if it does) after the act of marriage. I have a feeling abusers, in their head, would see a spouse as more of an easy target than a partner. I can imagine a kind of skewed justification and knowledge that they can do it inside marriage as the spouse has submitted and 'signed up for it'.

Very depressing.

miggsie I do think a personality can be inherent though. I had an abusive childhood, sexual and physical, and I am pessimistic, angry and clinically depressed but as you say I'm self aware so have broken the cycle of abuse. My DS1 is also pessimistic and sullen(and very clever) but I can categorically state he has never been abused. He just has that personality. DS2 is sunny and happy and joyful and he hasn't got that from his quiet and painfully shy father or me. He bounces back from things do we all (he's had some horrible and painful health issues) but it's in his nature not to dwell and move on.

I think for my ex a lot of it was projection of his own unadmitted fears about himself. I was the "other", and onto me he projected all his deepest fears about things that were weak, female, unclean, less worthy. After he unloaded that lot, he felt so relieved, so clean and strong and pure.

And in his head I should feel lucky and grateful he picked me and even got married. I thought he would never get marred to anyone so when he asked and actually did get married with me I thought he loved me after all. But no, it was something else, not love. Perhaps my shortfalls made him feel ever greater but after while he realise that I was a stain in his reputation since I wasn't as good as I should be (in his head) to be part of his life in any way. He told me during separation/divorce that I was to make sure to give up his surname as he didn't want any links of his family name with my 'kind'.

Sorry about typos. On phone.

NicknameTaken, your post is very enlightening to me!

" I have a feeling abusers, in their head, would see a spouse as more of an easy target than a partner."

It's certainly the case that a lot of abuse starts after the arrival of the first child. So the more constrained or trapped the victim appears to be.... either by a wedding ring or a baby (or isolation or some past trauma) ... the more the abuser feels they can operate with impunity.

Of course, the abuser often creates the trap in the first place. Big warning signs are those who want to rush someone into marriage or babies before they're ready or someone who alienates family/friends & gets the partner to move to the other side of the country.