If a verbally abusive H accuses me of being an abuser...

[ObscuredByClouds]

How do I deal with this?

Short history: married 8 years, 3 dc's between us from previous marriage. He has become increasingly verbally abusive over last few years: flies off handle at anything, threatens to leave lots, says I disrespect him. Shouts, swears, name calls, points, gets in my face. Brings stuff up that's irrelevant to argument from the past, can go silent/nasty/vindictive for days afterwards.

Otherwise a good man who protects us and we have lots of fun and shared friends.

I cry usually, wear heart on sleeve, hate unresolved conflict.

He has now accused me of being his abuser. I can't cope with that. I want to get my head straight to try and decide rationally what to do.

How do I deal with being called an abuser when I'm not? I'm in bits.

[ElectricSheep]

Badinage, you are frustrated and lacking patience - step away from the thread.

The average number of incidents of physical abuse before a woman leaves is 35. And number of years is 7. Coming to an understanding of what to do and why takes time.

[badinage]

He'd done much worse than cheating.

He's an abusive man. This is an abusive relationship. It's never going to get any better.

Nothing you do can control his behaviour.

The only thing in your control is to leave and keep you and your children safe.

[cjel]

Badinage may sound harsh but it is difficult to repeatedly hear heartbreaking stories of abuse like yours and be helpless. It seems that you are in a place where you know its not right but still think it will be ok if he changes. Unfortunately he won't and you will get dragged down lower and lower unless you choose to make the changes you want to make your life good. Leaving it longer and longer won't make it easier, better or different. The only way you will feel better is to not be with this man any more.

[badinage]

And yes it takes time. Time that children never get back.

[ObscuredByClouds]

Can I download that book onto my kindle?

Badinage, I can understand your frustration- I may also feel frustrated if I was looking from the outside in.

I'm going to read the book. I wish my situation was different. I know I am the only one who can change it. I consider myself a fairly confident, intelligent and professional person but I'm finding this so difficult to deal with.

[ElectricSheep]

I understand your concern for the DC Badinage, but bullying someone who is already being bullied everyday is not morally defensible. Ever.

[ladymuckbeth]

Annoyingly Obscured - you can't download the book onto Kindle (IIRC). But it is a brilliant book (I'm part way through reading it).

OP - I have to say that what some people on MN don't seem to understand is that it's bloody hard to leave abusive/shit/whatever relationships even if it's glaringly obvious to everyone that you should - IF you are somewhat programmed to stay in such relationships. I'm in the early stages of a divorce from someone who I'd still now say is on the cusp of being abusive (even though in some ways he most definitely is, I still find it hard to accept) and it took for him to say 'that's that' for me to realise that he was right and we should definitely call it quits. I have a friend who is in a similar marriage but her husband also refuses to call it quits. Both my H and I recognise that we are co-dependents; it's very hard sometimes to break out towards freedom.

What I can say is that despite the pain of the separation thus far - I now don't doubt that we are doing the right thing. I wonder if your H did as mine did and pushed you over the edge of that precipice - I bet you'd cope and marvel at yourself, as I did, that life wasn't quite as scary and awful as you'd imagined and actually - you feel just that little bit lighter, day by day.

[cjel]

Of course you are clever and feel professional, even the most confident person finds it hard to deal with because of the subtle ways that your dh speaks to you. Try not to let it go. read what you want and try and make decisions, I would remind you that you did start post with asking for advise as you were doubting your own opinions, it seems you are getting less confident in your abilities to trust yourself. Take care and look after yourself.xx

[badinage]

I reject the accusation of bullying.

I just don't think it helps always to say 'there, there' to an OP who's already years into an abusive relationship. This doesn't do children any favours and they don't get the choice. I see the fall-out most days in troubled teens whose parents put their own relationship before them.

Something needs to change. The OP needs to change her behaviour because staying in this relationship and hoping for him to change is fruitless.

There's a balance to be struck between offering sympathy and victimising the OP so that she doesn't take responsibility for her choices - and bullying.

There is a choice here. I post to show the OP that she is responsible for taking the right one.

[cjel]

Agree its frustrating and agree its hard to keep feeling sorry for people who don't seem to do what we think is right, but surely it is better to be encouraging OP where she is at the moment rather than adding guilt to her already confused mind? She knows she is the only one who can make these changes I can't and You can't make them for her. Giving her the support she needs while going through this - however long it takes- is all we can do?

[ObscuredByClouds]

Badinage, my dc's are honestly fine. They are not involved in our rows and only hear them sometimes. They are two of the best kids I know.

I work with troubled teens: I know how to protect mine. However, I'm sure you won't believe me.

I'm sure you're frustrated. I am too...but I'm also scared, low, sapped of strength and utterly depressed. I'm doing my best to move things forward via the visit to the doctor next week.

I really don't need harsh realities pushed at me - I'm well aware of my responsibilities to my kids AND myself.

[ObscuredByClouds]

Badinage, my dc's are honestly fine. They are not involved in our rows and only hear them sometimes. They are two of the best kids I know.

I work with troubled teens: I know how to protect mine. However, I'm sure you won't believe me.

I'm sure you're frustrated. I am too...but I'm also scared, low, sapped of strength and utterly depressed. I'm doing my best to move things forward via the visit to the doctor next week.

I really don't need harsh realities pushed at me - I'm well aware of my responsibilities to my kids AND myself.

[pictish]

I don't think you're bullying either badinage. I hear you and agree...but the strength of your feeling is making the OP defensive. I've done it myself a good few times.

OP - again I really recommend the Bancroft book. It's not full of psychospeak or hokum, nor is it a self help book. It's a user friendly guide to abusive men. You will might well meet your husband in those pages. It helps to clarify things a great deal. You will find it indispensible in your dealings with this situation. xx

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

If you want a Kindle book while the other one is on order, he's also written "Should I Stay Or Should I Go?" I've read it and it's not as good or as clear, but still has useful stuff in - AND it has a chapter called something like "Am I abusive?"

[cjel]

Obscure I am going to have to disagree about your kids. They really are great I'm sure, but they will be affected, will hear more than you think and be affected more than you admit. I am not saying that to add to your crap but just to point out that however much you know you won't be aware of what they don't show you to protect you. I too worked with kids , with young offenders etc and deluded myself to the extent of my Dcs only now I am out of it and they are 28 and 30 do I hear how much it affected them. They will be fine and will cope but they know more than you think.xx BUT again I say you are doing the best you can at the moment and I applaud you for that. I wish you the strength and courage you need. I hope you find what you need when you visit Drs. but you know that medication to dull the effect of your dhs words aren't a long term solution.

[Shr0edinger]

I was like you op, I had had a barrage of VA but I clung on to the internal knowledge that I wasn't an imbecile or a chaotic disorganised loser, or whatever the insult du jour was. I knew I was a good person despite his insults, I used to defend myself, endlessly. And then he turned round and told me I was abusing him. Well, the one thing I had left the one thing was that core belief that unlike him I was a decent human being,and then he made it seem like just defending myself meant that I was not 'nice'. ? Being a decent, 'nice' person was central to my identity, what was left of it, so it really hurt me (more than the other insults).

go to the gp and get anti depressants. i had been told to take them because I was insane, and chaotic, and a drama queen and hystrionic etc... but, I took them anyway and in a moment of lucidity I realised I had to leave, and had the strength to leave too. So please think about taking anti depressants even though it is NOT you. You have been ground down for years. Anti depressants can give you just a bit of clarity and the confidence to make a decision.

Interesting that the average length of time is 7 years.

[ObscuredByClouds]

Thank you. I'm aware my kids hear more than I think which is one huge reason I have to do something. I do know this, really.

I want ADs not to dull H's words, but to enable me to be emotionally stronger so I can make rational decisions rather than emotion led decisions. I know that right now I'm not in a place where I could cope with the emotional fallout of ending things so by going to the doctor and getting myself sorted, I can indeed start to make steps to that effect. I hope that makes sense?

[cjel]

It makes a lots of sense. What you are contemplating is huge, I don't underestimate it. It took me 30 years- but only a couple once I knew it was wrong, before that I believed what I was told. It was only when I started college and met people whose view of me wasn't matching his that I started to challenge his view of me. I didn't have anything like this to turn to so I am almost evangelical when I see posts like yours. I don't know what is helpful for you to hear but hope I don't close you down or add to your crap feeling of yourself. I'm sure the ADs will do what you want.xx

[badinage]

I'd also encourage you to get what ever props you need to see your situation more clearly. If ADs stand a chance of helping you to do that, try them. Do explain to your GP what's going on in your relationship though, because you might be able to access other support as well.

I often see posts from women who say that their abusive partners ended the relationship, usually by infidelity and it was only when the situation was taken out of their hands that they were able to see the severity of the abuse with hindsight. Lundy Bancroft mentions that abusive men will often have affairs as a further means to control and punish a partner. Sometimes they even have the decency to leave.

I've got a feeling that the situation will soon be out of your hands Obscured and that he's paving the way to leaving you. This is why he's changed tack and is projecting his abuse on to you. Bear in mind then that you won't be able to control the timing of your relationship ending, if you cede all the power about its continuance to your husband. He'll leave when it suits him. Not you or your children. If and when he does, it will be a good thing overall, but you are likely to cope better in the aftermath if this was a decision that you controlled at a time that was better for you and the children.

[ladymuckbeth]

My STBXH also turned round and started to call me abusive towards the end, and even started calling the police and playing the poor abused husband role in a bid to get me marked as unhinged. I've also since heard that his mother is campaigning against me now that we've separated, saying that I've got NPD. Yes, the same mother he spent 10 years telling me had NPD...

Very interesting to read here about the tendency for abusive men to eventually have affairs - mine followed exactly that pattern and even blamed me for his need to do so. It's early days out of the fog of it all but the sense of calm and relief from his constant criticism and erratic behaviour is wonderful.

[ObscuredByClouds]

I want to thank all of you for your frank replies. He has done something tonight that has made me see him for the dick he is. We are in the midst of a house move- should be in the new place in a month. New house, new start. Don't need a shitter like that in our lives.

If it's ok I may return to this thread at times for strength, validation and support.

Thank you again x

[Piemother]

Exh claimed I too was also abusive. His politicians response is now that the relationship was 'mutually abusive' or so he busily writes on mn. Then I did the freedom program and there it is in black and white that, as other wise posters have written here, this is a recognised tactic of an abuser.
Op I am divorced now. Exh is still batshit and delusional. Life is much better now I'm not wandering around worrying I might be an abuser

[cjel]

any time for support validation and strength. Are you moving without him?

[ObscuredByClouds]

No, going to wait until we have moved in then ask him to go. I'm intending on keeping very quiet until that point. I need to get the practicalities sorted first.

[nualanuala]

I too have a verbally abusive husband. I have suffered his abuse for about 15 years. It was probably caused by my inability to give him the family we both wanted. I had secondary infertility. Heartbreaking for both of us. I put up with the verbal abuse because I didn't have the courage to leave. Even our dear child has said they wouldn't put up with what I put up with. He was in a high powered job (and so arrogant at home) but that has now gone. He gave his all to his work. He is devastated. He is so angry most of the time and we can not have a discussion about anything. He just shouts. I feel I am his punchbag (not literally).He is a street angel but house devil. Last week he gave me a push ( a very slight push out of his way) as i was in between dc and him and he couldn't hear what they were saying - we were sitting in a row at a concert. I told him he had crossed a line. Still no apology he thinks we can just continue as normal. I don't expect a resolution, I know i should ltb. Hope you have more courage than me.