Some thoughts about "toxic" people

[flippinada]

I've read and contributed to a couple of threads where people are having to deal with what I would describe as toxic friends and family and the distress that it cause. I've had issues in the past with people this myself and it's really got me thinking.

Once thing that struck me from these threads, plus my own experience of toxic types is that there seems to be common "themes" - the one that immediately comes to mind is that the toxic person needs an enabler - usually a husband or wife who panders to their awful behaviour and colludes with them.

I know there's already a wonderful support thread (stately homes) but I thought it might be helpful to have a general discussion about how to identify these people and cope with them, plus a kind of support thing so folk know they aren't alone in having to deal with it alone?

Lola - that is tragic. Do you mean her eternal disappointment in you ? Is your sister supportive ? Can you reduce contact with your mum ? You are a better mother than your mum. I'm feeling rage at another mother again RRRAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Hellfire, Lola :(

Flip, theres another to add to your list. Linerunners comment about taking pleasure in children being taken ill or hurting themselves in accidents. Disgusting.
I've a feeling your list is going to get longer....

I had a feeling I was only scratching the surface crushed

Horrible as it is, I'm not entirely surprised.

I can remember my stepmother forcing my sister to compete in a gymnastics competition when she was really sick, because she was "putting it on for attention".

Aw lola, how awful
Your poor dsis, just can't believe how evil some people can be. About the adoption threat, did she show you any paperwork?

I can relate to the adoption part. Especially as I was the same age as you.
When we were little, (I was 10, my other dsis's 7 and 13), my dad left us. For a few days. (silly man came back)

In the time he had left, mum told me and my eldest sis that our dad wasn't our real dad, that he officially adopted us, but he was the real father of our younger dsis. She told us our real dad was dead. Me and my elder dsis formed a close bond because of this. Our younger dsis who seemed to have a closer relationship with our mum, started calling us her half-sisters. Awful.

Any way, years later (I was in my 20's), mum told me and my elder dsis that we didn't share the same father either, that it was my dad that was dead, and dsis's dad had buggered off (wise chap). She only told us this to 'purge her guilt'. she says, and felt soooooo much better afterwards for it. Thanks mum.

The close bond between my dsis ended there and then. She didn't want to know me, and later in life, as in now, she has bipolar and schizophrenia.

I'm looking forward to the day my mum tells me she's not my real mum.....she's taking her time. Hurry up, woman, the clocks ticking!!!

Crushed, maybe you should tell her you're not her real daughter. You know this because you are worthy of a loving, thoughtful, tactful mum, but somehow you got her instead.

crushed, do you think she was telling the truth about you all having different fathers?

I see my Mum a lot in this thread.

I had a c-section with ds, they came to see me a week or two afterwards. They were there for about five minutes when she announced she wanted to go to Ikea, with me and I should leave my EBF newborn to come and traipse round Ikea with her. I said no and she sulked for the rest of the visit.

Another time I was taken into hospital for something quite serious, I rang her to tell her and she said "oh no, well you will let me know how you get on won't you?". Didn't come to be with me or even visit while I was in.

Most recently she told me that women who are domestically abused should be stronger and not let it happen to them, when I called her on it she said "well when you're like this I can see why your ex was like he was with you". He was extremely abusive towards me.

She has always tried to triangulate family relationships through her. I have virtually no relationship with my Dad because of this.

Every special or important occasion has always ended in a row and her having a massive sulk.

She goes none contact for months/years on end.

She has has fallen out with every single family member.

I feel like I've had enough but can't quite give myself permission to end the relationship. My kids love her and always ask when we can see her. We are in a no contact phase at the moment.

When she is saying spiteful things to me she gets this weird look of pleasure just before she says it, I always know a zinger is coming.

I could go on and on and on .

Sorry for all of us on here dealing with this kind of thing.

My mother can tick every single box on that list that was up earlier.

It's too exhausting to go into all the details over the past 45 years but she managed to have me in tears on Mothers Day. She had a bad fall and has just come out of hospital - i went early to visit her with a balloon, Roses and a nice card. My daughter wanted to make me Breakfast but i felt i had to rush to see her and i took my daughter (aged 10) with me. She was weepy on arrival so i knew the signs weren't good.

Looking back i fell into her Trap. She spent 15 minutes moaning about how cruel and horrible my dad was whilst he was in the kitchen. My Dad is a classic Enabler, he is a lovely Grandad and wonderful father but he excuses her vileness and her abuse of him. He dotes on her and is totally dominated by her. I am the only one in the family who checks her behaviour on occasion. My Brother says nothing so is Golden Boy. I tried to focus on something positive and said why don't you try to get well then you can go and stay with your friend in Spain. Her friend is always asking her over and if my dad is so' horrendous' then the break would do her good. Because she likes to be miserable and make everyone else miserable she turned this around to me never having been a good daughter and just out for what i can get and how i should be keeping her and dad together
Then she told me to get out! I know she will not contact me and i have never heard her apologise to anyone ever for the way she acts. But my dad knows how upset i was and he hasn't rung me. He will be hoping i apologise to her to keep the peace when i know i did nothing wrong.

I did think she was getting easier as she got older but this has been a wake up call. The constant Hypochondria before this is draining - she has visited every hospital in the area but no one understands how ill she is and how she hasn't got long. They have all told her she is fine but they are all wrong and she is the expert.

I know if we are to speak again it will probably have to be me making the first move but i'm just so tired of it all. It's hard to relate to people who have 'normal' mothers. I did have a wonderful relationship with my late mother in law so i know exactly what i'm missing, unfortunately.

I suspect that a lot of toxic people come from very dysfunctional backgrounds, but that begs the question, why some people turn out toxic and not others, when they have the same background? - food for thought. My mother witnessed Trauma when very young and i think her mother overcompensated with her and spoilt her - then my dad came along and enabled her and made her the centre of attention too. The fact that she behaved the way she did to me on Mothers Day infront of my own daughter says to me that i should be making sure this never happens again. My daughter does not need to go through this too. That's why i know i will never be like my mother - because my children come first.

Good idea, goodjam. I might just do that.

Smells, I have seen my adoption certificate stating my dad legally adopted me.
My dad was present when she told us about my dsis father being different to mine.
She sat there crying. I remember being in shock so not sure if they were crocodile tears.

I have seen my real/ biological dads grave too. He doesn't have a headstone, but his records say that the number on his grave matches his name.

There is a pic of my dad ( if it is) with me in a pram, but can't tell if I look like him or not as he is looking in another direction.

The weird thing is, he is buried next to his sister (if she is) who has the same first name as my eldest dsis...

also, forgot to mention in any of my posts that dad is her enabler/colluder...

akaemma, yep, the weird look of pleasure before saying something nasty......I've seen it

bringback and crushed I've only just started to think about my father as having been an enabler, just because of this thread. He's a very strong personality.

akaemma God, my mother actually had a different timbre to her voice when enjoying misery.

How can they have so little self awareness? But then I guess no one ever tells them do they? It's almost impossible to confront them, the fall out is just too huge.

I remember when my grandma died (Dads Mum) I was visiting there at the time and my Mum had spent the entire day slagging the poor woman off to me (yet another family fallout). Anyway my Dad called into see his Mum on the way home and she had died . He rang my Mum and she spoke to him on the phone then came in and said to me dramatically "may god forgive me for all I have said today, your Grandma is dead!" and that's how I learned that my grandmother had died. From then she just took over in the grief stakes, sat at the end of the table with this sombre look on her face droning on about it, absolutely loving the drama. My Dad couldn't get a word in edge ways. Honestly I wanted to punch her and I know that makes me sound horrible but I really did. Never had a good word to say about my Gran when she was alive and sat there playing the grieving relative at the end.

And STILL no one confronted her.

linerunner-my dad is the opposite. He is weak. As much as I love him dearly

akaEmma Frost: if it helps any, you have my permission to end the relationship. I am guessing your dc must still be rather young. Once children get to be 12-13 yo they start noticing who they'd rather be around and who they'd rather not-even without having the vocabulary to enunciate why. Also, yes to the triangulation. Have you heard of the Drama Triangle? Google has a number of articles on it.

DoubleLife and Lemon your experiences are truly just awful. I am so sorry for you that you had to endure that. {{hugs}}

Also {{hugs}} for everyone else.

My mother had me down as the invisible one; middle sister was golden, oldest (adopted) was the scapegoat/black sheep. Mom died when I was 18, many years ago. Middle Sister picked the flag up and continued with the incessant redicule/dismissiveness that mother taught her to do to me. I am just now 99% complete in my head with no contact with middle sister...having not seen her in 5 years. Counselling does help get through the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) and validates that family duty can have its limits.

I am beginning to see that my dad has a strong personality but was very weak where my mother was concerned. And vice versa.

Even after they got divorced they were the biggest drama in the western hemisphere and still are to some extent.

aka - can I just say I don't blame you for wanting to punch your Mum there. Not one bit.

These stories are just so sad and infuriating. I want to post something supportive but am vicious of not wanting to sound patronising.

I think to recognise what is going on and try to counter it, cope with it or even just say"nope, not putting up worth it any more" takes a huge amount of personal strength, ave ours clear you all have that in spades!

Am conscious, not vicious! Bloody hell, sorry .

Aarghh...And it's, not ave ours.

I think though that this stuff is so normal that you don't even realise until you post it here and people are about it.

Everyone's so lovely on here, it's a great thread.

My counsellor has the opinion that, because they will never change, confrontation is a waste of time. They will just deny. Its my word against hers. And, as the world knows who is superior... whatever.

(I hope I wasn't sounding patronising. I certainly didn't mean to. Sorry.)

Yes everyone thinks their family is normal because it's pretty much your whole world until you gee to the age of reason, or can go or and see friends etc.

Of course by that point a lot of the damage is already done.

Oh dear, my phone doesn't like me tonight.