Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Flip

1 2

Original poster

To be worried about the future

41 replies

teacherandguideleader · 04/03/2013 21:15

I live with my boyfriend and we are very happy together. We live in the house he owns - no issues with that, it may be his house, but it is our home.

It is getting to a point where in the next couple of years we will probably consider having children. Boyfriend doesn't want to get married - it is not something he sees as a necessity, doesn't like a fuss and is also worried about if he married someone and it didn't work out, they would be entitled to half of what he has worked hard for (I totally understand that and it is not my intention).

My worry comes from what happens if we are happily living together as a family and then something happens to him. I know that legally I would be entitled to nothing and I don't know where that would leave me. In addition, as an unmarried partner, if I was to inherit his house I would have to pay inheritance tax which is out of my budget and I would have to sell. Also, he is older than me so the likelihood is I will outlive him, and I'm scared about what could happen then.

If we have children together, I am fortunate enough that we could be in a position where I could be a SAHM - however, that means I then have no financial security in terms of if we split or something happened to him as I would have quit my career. I would also struggle as a pensioner as I would have no pension and I don't know if I would qualify for his (assuming we do not split but he dies first) if we are not married.

Part of me feels like if we are to have children I should insist on us being married, but I am not sure if I am being unreasonable. I have no intentions of taking him for a ride and I hope we don't split up (I would be more than willing to sign documents to this effect, although not sure I would feel the same if I gave up work to look after our children and then split because he had been unfaithful for example). I'm more worried about if something happens to him.

I guess this is more of a WWYD, but would it be unreasonable to almost 'demand' marriage before children?

Sorry this is so long, didn't want to drip feed information!

OP posts:

Joiningthegang · 04/03/2013 21:38

Not at all - yanbu

I would want the "security" of marriage before children in this case. Of you were 100% secure that you would be ok in the future you wouldn't be asking.

MrsMushroom · 04/03/2013 21:39

You need to post in relationjships. Do you not pay anything towards the house at all? He may have bought it but surely you are contributing now? And I would seriously reconsider having children with a man who thinks in this way.

foreverondiet · 04/03/2013 21:47

Don't have children with this man unless he agrees to get married. Big warning signs....

HollyBerryBush · 04/03/2013 21:50

I wouldnt/didnt have children with a man that didnt value me enough to marry and have legitimate children.

Yes - let the flame throwers begin. I'm secure in love and financially as are our children. Quibble all you like over 'it's only a bit of paper'. If it were indeed only a bit of paper the understandable lobblying for gay marriage wouldnt be on the agenda.

squeakytoy · 04/03/2013 21:50

I agree with Forever. If he is willing to make a lifelong commitment of having a child with you, why would he not be happy to marry you. Think twice.

WidowWadman · 04/03/2013 21:58

Married or not, giving up your career to stay at home will always leave you vulnerable.

ImperialBlether · 04/03/2013 22:05

I feel the same as you, Holly.

How old are you, OP? Do you pay anything towards the house now?

You really should post in Relationships. Report your post and ask them to move it and you'll get some great advice.

Smartiepants79 · 04/03/2013 22:07

Not completely sure of the legalities but can you get him to make a will that would ensure that you and his children were the beneficiaries of any property or insurance policies?
Would this not reassure you in regards to what would happen if he was no longer around?
You need this security if you are going to give up your career.

Bobyan · 04/03/2013 22:10

So what are you financially bringing to the relationship?
What does he get if you had kids and then died?
You need to start looking at this as a partnership and addressing how you behave as part of a team. Frankly if I was him I wouldn't be keen to marry someone financially less stable than me and who seems to already be looking at stopping working...

Original poster

teacherandguideleader · 05/03/2013 05:59

Thanks for all of the replies, I will get this moved.

Financially into our relationship I bring my salary, which is a decent wage. I obviously contribute towards the house out of this. I don't consider myself to be financially less stable - we have just followed different life courses. He is older than me, left school to start his career at 16 and lived with parents while saving for a mortgage. On the other hand, I have been to university and funded my way through a masters degree. I could not find a teaching job near my home town so had to move away at the age of 22 with no savings. I had no option but to rent and with the cost of renting where I managed to get work there was nothing left over. If something happens to me, I have no estate for him to inherit and I don't know if he would be entitled to my pension. He has much more financial security though because he owns the house, my death would not affect that.

I do not know if I want to give up work and be a SAHM. I have studied for 7 years and not sure if I could give it all up, even though I am sure bringing up your own children is the most rewarding job in the world. Some of this is because I don't want to feel I have wasted all of those years studying, some because I am worried about being vulnerable and thirdly because I don't want to be 'living off' my boyfriend. I have always worked for my money. This is something boyfriend and I have discussed, to which his reply is that his salary would become our salary as I would be bringing up the children, he would be providing (he has very traditional values).

I hope I am not coming across as 'grabby' and entitled to his house as I am not. I have had comments from friends about how I have met someone who already owns their own house and some of them are quite nasty. I would feel the same towards my bf if he had nothing.

My only concern is if we do have children and something happens to him. We would really struggle financially. From what I understand (I have been researching), but his children would inherit his house but we would have to pay inheritance tax. I don't have that kind of money. The only time inheritance tax isn't paid is if it passes to a spouse / civil partner.

Boyfriend and I have mentioned marriage before when one of my friends got married. I haven't mentioned it since as I haven't wanted to give him the impression I'm forcing the issue as I am trying to take him for a ride as I'm not - if we were to marry I would be happy to sign documents saying I'm not entitled to anything if we split. If we start seriously considering children it is something I would want some serious discussions over.

OP posts:

Morloth · 05/03/2013 06:23

I wouldn't have kids or give up my job with someone who is thinking the way your boyfriend is.

You will be leaving yourself and any children right up shit creek.

Men don't just leave, they can get sick and/or die. As can you.

Based solely on what you have posted here, I wouldn't marry him, I would leave him and find someone I could trust/trusted me.

Whst happens if you sign a prenup, you give up years of your life raising his children and he walks out?

The game changes when you have kids.

Fairylea · 05/03/2013 06:32

There is no sense of "us" here, only two separate people.

When you have children together that completely changes.

I owned my house with my mum when I met dh. No mortgage. We brought my mum out so we needed a mortgage to do that and now I am a sahm and dh pays the bills and the house is in our joint names. I was prepared to do that because we are a family and our money is our money no matter where it comes from. We have two dc- an older dd from my first marriage and ds 8 months.

We put all our income including dh wage into a joint account where everything comes out of and split spending money equally.

You will never be happy as a sahm unless you can learn to see yourself as equally earning a "wage" through the childcare and housework element. I am entitled to half the money because my role in the family is just as valid as dh's.

Just something to think about.

amillionyears · 05/03/2013 06:53

What is he saying about the potential financial state he could leave you in?

allgoodindahood · 05/03/2013 07:10

You say he has very traditional values op, yet that doesn't include marriage? My MIL is in this position. She's been a sahm most of her life and the house is in her long term partner's name, not hers. My dh isn't his biological son. She is worried about the v real possibility that her partner will die and she will be on the street. Her partner hasn't even confirmed that she is included in his will. Marriage offers you important protection esp where you don't own the house. I own our hse but still insisted on getting married so dh gets equal rights. If he won't marry he needs to add you to the mortgage or a new one.

Morloth · 05/03/2013 07:13

What is the point of getting married to someone you can't trust?

It just doesn't make any sense.

Corygal · 05/03/2013 07:22

OP, it looks like BF wants his cake and eat it.

I'm worried about how much you want to be independent, to be honest - self-financing single about town sounds great, but the minute the baby arrives it can turn into shat-on single mum working 2 jobs very easily when the child's father has attitudes like this.

Original poster

teacherandguideleader · 05/03/2013 08:09

I am not quite sure where the idea we don't trust each other comes from, we both trust each other and have no issues in our relationship. We actually have a happy relationship where we split chores 50/50, spend time together and also enjoy doing things independently from each other.

I hope things work out between us, but I am not naive enough to go railroading into having children with someone without being sure that I am as secure as I can be beforehand. I also know that things go wrong sometimes - we never know what is around the corner.

I don't actually know what my boyfriend's reaction would be to me saying I want to get married for the security in case something happens to him as it is not a conversation we have had yet. He is not that aware about legal issues and may not realise that an unmarried couple with children have less rights than a married couple. I wanted to make sure that I was not being completely unreasonable if I insist that we get married before we have children. If after discussion he refuses, then it will be time to think again.

OP posts:

Morloth · 05/03/2013 08:11

It sounds like you don't trust each other because he doesn't want to get married in case you take his house and you want to get married in case he leaves you holding the baby.

You say in your OP, 'boyfriend doesn't want to get married'.

Original poster

teacherandguideleader · 05/03/2013 08:14

Can I also just clarify, we have discussed the possibility of me being a SAHM when I was talking about maternity leave as I would have barely any money coming in. His immediate reaction was 'but my salary will be our salary' so I don't think he has quite the attitude some people seem to think he has. I may be doing him a huge disservice with my worries.

OP posts:

Original poster

teacherandguideleader · 05/03/2013 08:17

Cheating isn't the only thing that causes relationships /marriages to break down. Sometimes they just don't work out. We trust each other.

OP posts:

Morloth · 05/03/2013 08:17

Shrug, we can only go on what you post.

Morloth · 05/03/2013 08:18

He doesn't have to cheat to leave.

Morloth · 05/03/2013 08:21

You should get married because you love each other, because you are planning to spend the rest of your lives together, because your life is better with him in it and the other way, because you want to have children with him and so on and so forth.

To be thinking this clinically at the very beginning bodes a bit IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I am practical, I have always made sure I could look after myself if need be, but first and foremost I wanted to be with DH.

LadyPessaryPam · 05/03/2013 08:22

HollyBerryBush I wouldnt/didnt have children with a man that didnt value me enough to marry and have legitimate children.

^^This. I felt and did exactly the same.

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat · 05/03/2013 08:31

I would sit him down and talk it out with HIM. My DH had been taken for a ride by his first wife and was justifiably cautious. However i said to him, 'what we have isnt enough any more I want to get married.'

then followed a discussion about his thoughts and his first wife. at that point we had been together for 6 years (and this was longer than he had known his wife to when they split.)

we discussed what we thought rather than 'feelings' cos he would have ran a mile if he thought hed have to speak about feelings!

we got married in 1997, and are still going strong.

communication is the key... but with him

Flip

1 2