To be worried about the future

[teacherandguideleader]

I live with my boyfriend and we are very happy together. We live in the house he owns - no issues with that, it may be his house, but it is our home.

It is getting to a point where in the next couple of years we will probably consider having children. Boyfriend doesn't want to get married - it is not something he sees as a necessity, doesn't like a fuss and is also worried about if he married someone and it didn't work out, they would be entitled to half of what he has worked hard for (I totally understand that and it is not my intention).

My worry comes from what happens if we are happily living together as a family and then something happens to him. I know that legally I would be entitled to nothing and I don't know where that would leave me. In addition, as an unmarried partner, if I was to inherit his house I would have to pay inheritance tax which is out of my budget and I would have to sell. Also, he is older than me so the likelihood is I will outlive him, and I'm scared about what could happen then.

If we have children together, I am fortunate enough that we could be in a position where I could be a SAHM - however, that means I then have no financial security in terms of if we split or something happened to him as I would have quit my career. I would also struggle as a pensioner as I would have no pension and I don't know if I would qualify for his (assuming we do not split but he dies first) if we are not married.

Part of me feels like if we are to have children I should insist on us being married, but I am not sure if I am being unreasonable. I have no intentions of taking him for a ride and I hope we don't split up (I would be more than willing to sign documents to this effect, although not sure I would feel the same if I gave up work to look after our children and then split because he had been unfaithful for example). I'm more worried about if something happens to him.

I guess this is more of a WWYD, but would it be unreasonable to almost 'demand' marriage before children?

Sorry this is so long, didn't want to drip feed information!

His immediate reaction was 'but my salary will be our salary' so I don't think he has quite the attitude some people seem to think he has. I may be doing him a huge disservice with my worries.

He sounds like a good guy with a responsible enough attitude, but perhaps he just hasn't quite thought all that much about the practicalities of having children. Many blokes don't.

That doesn't mean your worries aren't valid.

Next time this comes up, I'd ask him if he wants children. As in, actually want them as opposed to kind of just assume they'll happen one day in some uncertain future.

If he says he does, ask him how he thinks you'll work together as a family to raise them. Who'll bring in the money, who'll do the childcare, who'll do the housework, who'll pay for childminders etc. Talk about these things in concrete detail, not in a vague "my salary will be your salary" kind of way. This is the kind of conversation that separates the men from the boys. It would tell you whether or not you have reasons to worry about a future with this bloke.

I would also advise you not to thing of marriage as a blanket solution to all financial insecurities. Giving up your job and your livelihood is a big risk to take even in marriage. Make sure both you and him understand this risk before you agree to it.

Even if you don't marry or have children, if the relationship fails you would be comfortable to walk away and start again with just your salary! Perhaps after 10 years or more!

Why don't you wait a couple of years and see if you can save up a deposit on a flat that you can rent out, at least you would have some assets of your own.
You still don't sound like a team to me...

I think that you need a heart to heart to him about your understandable financial concerns.
I think it is purely a case of he hasnt thought things through as much as you have, he hasnt thought about things from your angle, and he probably isnt fully aware of the financial stuff from your angle.

From what you have said, he sounds a decent bloke, so I think it will all turn out ok.
Good luck.

Yanbu. Maybe you don't need to have that conversation yet but you should defo have it before you have a baby. Pregnancy and childbirth is still a major undertaking in this day and age - your body will not be the same again and you may be risking health issues and trauma. Also the typical woman loses 80% of her future earning power when she has children. It is not unreasonable to expect a commitment from him before you take that leap.

My DP earns considerably more than me and when we met was comfortably off with good savings. I was in debt. When we moved in together I paid a nominal share of rent and bills until my debts were cleared and I'd built up small savings. When we decided to have children, we bought a house together using his savings but in both our names as joint tenants. We have wills, life insurance and he proposed when I fell pregnant. This is what a loving partner who is truly committed will do.

Hope that did not sound smug! I felt v guilty at first about not bringing more to the table financially. We had an IFA advise us and remind us about everything eg I have named him as a beneficiary on my pension scheme. Nature has a way of balancing things out - I was the one who had to go through childbirth and as bf, all the night feeds!!

talk to him Op and get all this out in the open, you can speculate for weeks and just feel worse, he may suprise you with his response if you talk. he may think its you who does not want to get married etc etc etc, just have the discussion

I'm not a fan of marriage at all but if you are planning to be a SAHM cohabitee you'll be in a weak position. DP and I had 3 children without getting married but we have a house in joint names, and we both earn, have our own pensions etc.

So it's not marriage per se that's important but you need to be careful.

Hello

We've moved this to Relationships at the OP's request.

If you want to be married then it is not unreasonable at all. He needs to realise as well that cohabitation splits can be just as messy and protracted (perhaps even more so) than divorce.

Look at this too with cold calmness. It may be your home but its still his house. If this is his residence alone i.e you are not named anywhere on either the mortgage or the title deeds, he is within his rights to ask you to leave if the relationship breaks down and you would have to leave. He is not responsible for you financially in the event of separation and would only be financially responsible for any children you both had.

In law you are treated as two separate individuals and in the event of seperation what is his is his and what is yours is yours.

You would be really left up the creek without a paddle particularly if he died intestate and you would be reliant on his parents as well to help you which they may well not do.

Also his parents are next of kin; not you as you likely realise. The house could go to them in the event of his death and you could rely on their goodwill. You as his unmarried partner in such circs would be in a dire position because apart from dealing with your own grief you would also have to deal with the fallout over the financials and winding up of the estate. You would NOT be able to choose a headstone nor could you open Letters of Adminstration for him (a part of settling the overall estate). You would also NOT be able to claim a widows pension from the state and although its around £80 a week currently, in hard times with a child or two it is not to be sniffed at.

Children like stability; even Angelina Jolie is finally going to get married to Brad Pitt partly because their children do not like them unmarried if they are together. I think some men think children to be more of a commitment but men (and women) still can and do walk away from children.

Doubtless your man has not even begun to consider how much crap you would be in if he were to die early and leave you widowed with a child or two.

He does not value you enough to want to marry you and his reasons for not marrying are to be frank pathetic (he is too easily guided by what has happened to others). Do not sell yourself short.

"Financially into our relationship I bring my salary, which is a decent wage. I obviously contribute towards the house out of this"

I apologise if I am incorrect but I assume from reading this that you are not on either the mortgage or the title deeds. (Contributions that you make towards the house count as well for nothing in the event of future separation).

I Think it's sensible to marry before having children. The financial concerns you mention are valid. That said the reasons your bf gives for not wanting to marry should give you cause for concern. Ok, so he doesn't want a fuss, that's easily solved by a quick trip down the registry office. So he doesn't see the necessity, again hopefully he'll come round when you explain the legalities of which you think he's not aware. But your last reason about how he doesn't want you to get half of his assets on divorce... That's a cold thing to say. I don't think guys who are truly ready for marriage say that. I think they enter into it willingly with a view to it being for good.

Are you happy to continue to pay towards his mortgage, then walk away with nothing if you split? Are you expected to sacw for future contingency on breaking up? Are you sure you want to bring a child into the world already making provision for a broken home? Has your bf thought that you would well end up supporting him in later life for any number of circumstances, perhaps if he got ill, loses his job or just due to old age. Where does his 'look out for number one' attitude get him then?!

Read carefully what AttilatheMeerkat wrote!

I am a widow, husband died unexpectedly at 48, just a year older than me. I was unable to claim a pension as I was too young (widows pensions no longer available). The only help available was a Widow's Parents Allowance as I had one child under 18. I believe plans are afoot to pay this allowance for only 1 year after spouse has died, so you're expected to manage financially on your own after this. I was a SAHM but we were married and named on the mortgage/deeds which meant I inherited the house and was able to claim half his work pension. I would have been up shit creek if we had not been married or I didn't "own" half the house. Beware please, you do not know what's round the corner. I never expected to be alone with two kids at 47 but I was. It can and does happen.

Might be worth posting on the Legal Thread here too. Mumblechum is a poster on there - she is a professional Will Writer and may be able to give you some good advice on the legalities of your situation.

If you both see this as a long term relationship then you should go together to get your wills written.this will be a chance for your dp to hear the legalities from a neutral third party. It will make him realise that without a will his house would currently go to his parents...would he want that? You can mention yet to be born children in wills too so can plan ahead in that way. For me marriage before kids was what I wanted. I'd also advise against giving up your career add it leaves you very dependent (and possibly bored).