"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's March 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly use it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Thanks Fog, Biscuits and Dontstep for your replies. It's reassuring to know that i am not alone, but sad that other people feel that way too.

I also find it hard to phone people incase They don't want to talk to me. I feel that i am being a 'nuisance' in a lot of situations eg if i have to asksomeone something at work, feel that my husband is doing me a favour when he spends time with me, staying over at someones house etc. I find myself putting off phnecalls or approaching people and i apologise a lot.

Things are so up and down. I feel happy and accepting of who i am, but then something little can send me into self-loathing. I do think that this is mostly improved though when NC, but it's still early days for me so will have to wait and see.

Hi all

Thanks for all the replies I am working my through them. For the moment dd is safe but I have to make a decision either way soon. It's just so dam hard particularly as I always get people coming up to me to tell me how wonderful my parents are

I honestly want to shout at them "not to me they are not" they are fab with my dsis and her family and are brill with my db how us a fuck up and if I had done 1/10 of he had would have probably have been disowned he needs there understanding and love! Also neither dsis or db deal with any if the hard stuff like parents needing to go to the hospital, looking after parents house, dealing with any issues at all I have do it all

Milly I 100% agree I always feel alone dh is great but like all couples we have ups and downs and he just never seems to think of me. Ie after over a decade he doesn't know what type of ice cream I like. I'm bit sure it is his fault though I think I hide a lot myself away, it's the only way I can protect it and keep it safe

I had a brilliant career highly respected in a very difficult field but I used that as an reason to keep myself to myself. Worked long hours etc so no time for friends etc i worked the first 3 Christmas i was with my exdh (deceased)

I can't take a compliment I just don't think that people mean them I y s w I m?

I have a tendency to feel that people are laughing at me behind my back, I don't think there is one person I trust, the people I did are gone now.

Sorry this has turned into an all about me. But honestly Millie you are not alone I know you will some fab help on here (drone much better people than me) in with you

Ocscalito Many thanks for your reply and well wishes.

It took a long time to realise that I needed to speak to someone regarding my childhood. In my culture, seeking help is seen as a sign of weakness and has a stigma attached to it. You are meant to just carry on and act like nothing happened, vis-à-vis get on with it (while inevitably passing on the sadness to your kids). I am continuously berated by my family for cutting them off and having an opinion as to how I was raised and what I was exposed to. It has since come to my attention that most family members were aware of some of the neglect my mother subjected me to, but refused to act upon it, but were quite willing (and happy) to use it against me in an argument recently. Satan (if you exist) come and collect your forgotten brood = my mothers family

Milly I could have written your post word for word, save for the NC reference at present ? but I am working on it.

Hi everyone,

I've been dipping in and out of this thread but today is the day I am making changes.

Just back from a break to visit my DPs. It was a disaster. My dad spent the whole time tutting, swearing and being generally irate at anything from traffic lights to waiters and as always my mum just let him carry on. He sulked whenever I suggested something he didn't want to do and by the end of it my stress levels were through the roof from treading on eggshells (my IBS is playing me up terribly, having trouble sleeping- it's like being a kid again)

I fell out with DM today and she now isn't talking to me. Apparently I shouldn't have had my DD if I wanted to put my career before her (I have just turned down an amaz

Ooops...wrong button.

I turned down an amazing promotion as it wouldn't fit in with childcare. I called my mum to talk about it- obvs I am disappointed as the extra pay would really help us on our way to buying a house instead of renting and build some savings to look after our family. But that makes me a bad parent because I am putting my career first.

I have been crying for 2 hours now. I am so so angry. I have had enough of all this crap, the hangover from my childhood. I know I can't blame my parents for everything that went wrong in my life but I can't help but feel if they had been there and behaved as parents should then I wouldn't have had so many issues as a teen/young adult.

Of course they don't see it that way. What do I have to be depressed about? Well maybe it's the abuse they said never happened (I was attention seeking apparently) or maybe the fact I was repeatedly raped by my older boyfriend when I was a schoolgirl. Or perhaps the inadequate feelings that stem from never being told they love or care for you.

So here's what I am going to do- this is the last time they will make me feel this way. I am off to town to buy some books about parenting and starting a journal about my feelings.

The hardest thing will be cutting contact right down- I dot have many friends (never feel like I fit in or am any good at friendships) so I tend to be in contact with DM a lot. But it needs to stop. I need mutually supportive interactions but this is a one way street. Any advice how I can cut down without so many feelings of guilt?

So sorry for the rant! I just feel like I am having a breakdown. This one silly argument seems to have brought years and years of feelings to the fore.

Just popping in to join this thread as I,m having problems with my mother at the moment.
I was aware of this thread but felt I was past the stage were my mother could get to me, had recognised her bahaviour and was coping with it, with minimal contact and emotional distance but she has recently upped the anti by hitting my adult daughter.

Nothing much to add at the moment, but might need a safe place to vent over the coming months as the fallout from going no contact starts to happen . I have my lovely nieces wedding coming up and I just know my mother will turn this into a drama all about her and her evil DD and GD not talking to her. So I,m sure I will be back.

Milly, Don'tStep etc, me too! I feel outside of everything. So ene up feeling alone a lot of the time.

Recently I wonder WTF I do wrong, as my family all seem to have mates etc, and i've always struggled.

That'll be down to feeling worthless cos I was told I was, wouldn't it?

Gah! I wish I could afford to go back to therapy!

Well I don't really have much in the way of advice to offer any of you, but Paintyourbox I don't really have any friends either but I still found it worthwhile to go NC. The way that i looked at it was that any relationship with my mum just caused me stress and drama. She wasn't adding anything positive to my life so I could only benefit from not having her in it.i went NC just over a month ago and have mostly been happier for it, tho felt down over the last fe days.

Anyway, here are a couple of things that helped me reduce the guilt - maybe they will help you. I wrote a list of all the things my parents had done/ said to make me unhappy and the effects these things had on my life. I also found a photo of me and my siblings as children. When I began to feel guilty i would reread the list or look at the photo to remind myself of all the stuff i had put up with and how vulnerable i was. How could anyone treat a child that way? We were so young and vulnereable - this reminds me that it is only right for me to protect myself now from further damage. Hope that helps you!

Well despite giving all that advice, i don't feel in a good place myself the last few days. Thought I had accepted my dad's decision not to contact me unless I stopped my NC with my mum. But I'm not.... I feel so hurt by his lack of contact. It throws everything from the last 35 years into doubt. Did dad ever love me? Obviously not that much, if he turned a blind eye to years of abuse and still enables mum. But I spent my whole life thinking that tho he was weak and made things worse for us, deep down he still loved me.

So if I was so stupid to think dad loved me, what about everyone else? I did most of the childcare for my younger sister and brother, up until the age of about 3-4. I dont think they remember that as they were too young, and i never mentioned it to them. Anyway, because of that i hsve always felt really close, almost maternal, towards them both. But is this one-sided too? Maybe they just go along with things to keep the peace. Maybe they don't really love me either. And what about my husband, his family, my only friend, work colleagues etc. what do they all think of me? I know it shouldn't matter but it does. How will i ever know whether these people really care for me?

And now with fathers day looming, and my much-loved MIL going away tomorrow for 2 months, i just feel miserable, abandoned and very very tearful. I haven't been sleeping much either, which doesn't exactly help. I feel raw, and completely vulnerable. I know I need to get back to thinking positive, but not sure I have the energy at the moment...

Sorry you are having such a hard time Milly I am sure your dad does love you in his own way. It sounds like he doesn't have the guts to go against your mother and so you are made out to be the unreasonable one for going NC. Have you pointed out to him that his going NC with you because you are NC with your mother makes him a bit of a hypocrite?!

I suppose we don't ever really know if people care for us. I struggle with feelings like that which make me come across as needy (and in turn probably make people avoid me!). I'd love to be laid back and carefree but my upbringing just hasn't made that possible.

It sounds like you should do something to treat yourself on Sunday. Maybe buy a new book, have a nice lunch out, just something to take care of yourself. Will you be able to Skype or email MIL while she is away?

Sleep has such a profound effect on how we feel. It really seems to dictate my mood and ability to cope. I do try to go to bed early but when I spend half the night tossing and turning I often think I may as well stay up and get something useful done!

Hugs to you, Milly.

My feeling on love is that Dad did (possibly does) love me, but he's so damaged and broken himself that the love got twisted up inside him, and when it emerged, it wasn't recognisable as love any more.

I don't mean this as an excuse for him though. I'm not prepared to say 'well he was damaged, so it was OK that he hurt me', or 'he's been through a lot; it's not his fault.'

The reason I don't is that now I'm a mum, I can see that it's easy to shirk responsibility the way he did. It would be an awful lot easier for me to just give in and scream and smack and remind everyone that I've been through a lot and I'm ill so they need to all just accept it. But I know that isn't right and isn't fair. I don't necessarily feel it; I have no instincts to fall back on. But because I'm aware that the issue is within me, and I don't want to just hand this on to my children, I've spent a long time researching and reading and talking to doctors and I'll go to therapy. It's hard, but they're my children, so that's what I have to do.

Dad chose to get no help. He took the role of victim as an excuse, and it was always everyone else's fault.

Sorry, once again, this post has turned insular.

Thanks Paint and Fog for your thoughts on things. Paint - I know what you mean about being needy. I am sooo needy and insecure. I get jealous a lot too, not just with my husband but in friendships and family situations too. I can fake being laidback and carefree mostly but its all an act.

I also agree about doing something nice on Sunday for me. I have taken a few days off work next week too, as can feel i need a bit of a break, so will do something nice then too.

Fog - i agree with you about it being easier to scream and shout. I think my dads life motto in everything has been 'i just want an easy life. No hassle.' he is not a cruel man, but he is very good at inaction, and stocking his head in the sand. He is a very weak man.

'i just want an easy life. No hassle.'

But he's got children, so there is likely to be some hassle. I don't think many people actually want hassle, but if your a parent, and there is suddenly hassle, then you step up to the plate. It's part of the job, as it were.

Anyhow, I sort of want to say 'I'm sorry for your loss', because it is a massive loss, finding out someone that you thought of one way is suddenly completely different. I'm sorry, and yes, if you can find a good way of spending time on Sunday, then go for it.

I completely agree with you Fog. I don't have children but i do know that there are many other times that people need to step up to their responsibilities. My dad completely sticks his head in the sand. He is very good at denial.

Logically I can tell myself all the right things... That it's HIS loss, and I'm better off knowing where I stand. But on a personal level, I just think how can you just stop contact like that because things are (in his words) 'a bit awkward' now. Also part of me feels like it is karma: i cut mum off, so dad cut me off. My hurt is the same as mums hurt. Then I feel guilty. And I KNOW the truth - that it's not the same at all. i never abused anyone like mum did. I thought long and hard about going NC and tried everything else possible beforehand. Dad just did it to save himself getting a load of earache from my mum... But sometimes I can't make myself FEEL the truth.

I do feel that I couldn't have meant much to him if he could just stop contact so quickly. I will do anything for those i love and am very loyal, so by comparison i find it hard to believe he really valued me if he could just chuch me out like a bit of rubbish. But then, i'm not sure he ever knew the real me cos i could never relax or be myself in their company.

"i'm not sure he ever knew the real me cos i could never relax or be myself in their company"

That one sentence explains so much. Like the other posters above I don't feel at ease in company. I always, without exception, feel I am being judged, that I have to perform, to try to be better than I really am, or people will tire of me, see through me and find me boring, bad or not worthwhile. It's exhausting.

I also felt my parents never knew me. And Milly's words have made the penny drop and I realise that I never showed them the real me. Would they have been interested if I had? I think not, they never really showed an interest in what I was or felt. I learned from birth that I wasn't enough. I had to put on an act to try to satisfy my parents and meet their standards (something I could never achieve). My Mum would say "You're representing me when we're in company, so behave. Don't let me down or there'll be trouble" Trouble was bad for sure.....silent treatment, sulks, shouting, humiliation, being smacked or being sent to bed, a suitcase full of my clothes and toys at the end of the bed and the threat that any noise and they'd take me straight to a children's home. I could never be myself as that wouldn't be good enough.

Mum's dead now and I am NC with my father. My Dad has never tried to contact me. I meant that little to him. Father's day dredges up the same old feelings for me - not sadness for the past, because I wouldn't go back to that or even being in contact with such a toxic man as an adult,....but sadness for what could have been. I look at other families who are out and about celebrating family occasions and I don't understand how it can make them feel happy - the thought of having to socialise with family makes me feel sick with dread. I'm truely glad others find joy in family - but I just don't get it. By some conincidence (or perhaps not) My DH and my best friend both had toxic, abusive parents too - only with them am I ever really me. I'm so lucky to have them.

Thanks for reading and I'm sorry for this outburst, Milly's brilliant words just sparked something and that just poured out of me.

That is exactly it WindingDown - feeling like I have to perform... To represent myself in the best possible light to them. Before I would visit, I would spend a week or more agonising about what clothes to wear, how to do my hair, agonising over a spot that decided to show itself and would get up extra early to perfect my make up, then after more than three hours drive to get there I would park round the corner to retouch my make up, check my hair and straighten my clothes! Sounds nuts when I write it down! I am not a vain peerson at all, but I did all that in the hope that it would stop my mum calling me fat, or other insults about the way I look! And thats just the external stuff - also walked on eggshells to try not to say the wrong thing.

Yet, my inlaws are a lovely, normal family. They have seen me in my home in jogging pants and no makeup and i don't have to edit my words. They do not judge me and show genuine love and affection. At first, WindingDown, I was like you said, I didn't understand how they could enjoy family stuff the way they seem to. Now, I love these things too...i feel blessed to have my husband and inlaws in my life. My husband's mum has been much more of a mum than mine ever was - even going on holiday later in the year just the two of us!

Anyway, the last month since going NC, I have made myself a promise, that as long as I wasn't being unkind or hurting others, I would do whatever I want to do, instead of worrying about how others might judge me. It is still a work in progress, but I feel 'more me' because of it. In the last couple of weeks I have got hair extensions (long hair was always for tarts or those in their teens, according to mum), and bought my dream car - an Audi TT. My parents are comfortably off, but we have much more spare cash than them - my husband is a doctor, but I have always been made to feel uncomfortable about any money we spent, as my parents made it an issue.

I know those things probably make me sound flash or pretentious, but I am not. They are just two of the ways that I have been allowing the image I present to the world to be more free and genuine. i like something and have not hurt anybody in the process, so I do it. The only problem is that it is so much easier to do this with 'things' rather than my words. I am still quite shy and guarded in what i say or do. Guess that will take a bit longer to sort out.

After being harrassed on the phone dh is now off to see fil tomorrow, infact he was nearly henpecked into visiting today as devious sil is there. Oh well bang out the window goes Fathers day, dh was supposed to be spending it with his own dc but he is spending a few hours with them... great. Mil is already kicking off about not seeing gc, will probably be back on here with the latest saga tomorrow

Right, need some support here. I posted about 9/10 weeks ago after a confrontation with my mother where she said some very very unpleasant things to me (for the millionth time), this time I snapped. She was standing in my toddler's bedroom & I just thought, ' do you know what? Fuck off, I'm 33!' I stayed v calm & told her how hurtful she was before bursting into tears & walking out.

I took my dc to feed the ducks while she lied to told dad what happened. It was their last day visiting, so I was the bigger person & got on with it like nothing had been said, but didn't speak to her except for 'pass the wine' type things.

Since then we've not spoken, save a few wheedling texts & texts to ask how dc were etc. normally call 1-2 times & 1 Skype with dc. She text a few weeks ago asking if I'd like to go to a play with her. That was her way of apologising, but this time I didn't allow it. I said I was too hurt & it wouldn't be a nice evening. She told me to grow up & we'd both said hurtful things (?????) we should move on etc. the next day she posted on fb about being excited about going to play with her friend. [sad

I feel much better for no contact. For the first time in as long as I can remember.

Tomorrow I'm getting on a plane to visit them for a week. I feel sick. I hate being there anyway, but I dc love them & my own gos won't be here much longer either. I also want to see other family (they all live in ni, me in England).

I am planning to get out and about as much as I can, but it's going to be hard. Wish DH could come, but he's just started new job

The trip was booked before the big fall out. Dd just had chickenpox, I wish she still did, then they wouldn't let us fly!

Sorry, didn't read posts above . Huge to all Milly don't let the doubts creep in. You sound lovely. The doubt is what your mother wants you to feel. I don't know your back story, but in my case the doubt about myself was planted to make me weak & keep me needing her. It only took me 33 years to work it out.

People don't bother with you unless they truly love you. My DB was my surrogate child too (7 1/2 year gap) I looked after him until I was 18 & escaped He is a selfish little shit who has no interest in me except to claim to be Arab uncle to my dcs. I know my friends love me, because nothing compels the. To stay & I know DH loves me, & in fact our relationship is the one that has never been even skirted with doubt. That's how I knew to marry him!

Be strong. At least you have a great mil. Mine, although kind & well intentioned is needy & bat shit crazy!

Milly you don't sound pretentious at all, actually your post made me laugh as I think you're having a bit of teenage rebellion having finally freed yourself from the shackles of your toxic parents! I think what you're doing is great!

Hi Babies I know how hard it can be going back to visit family- I miss my family but as soon as am there I remember why I moved so far away. I suppose I miss my idea of family- sharing meals round the table, going on fun trips etc (that's not what my experience of family is however!)

I have found it helps to have something arranged for every day- even if just for a couple of hours. You could pre-book cinema tickets for yourself and the dc, make a lunch date "on the spur of the moment" etc.

Is there something you can do as a form of escapism while there? Read a very good book, go for a run etc? Something you enjoy that will relieve the stress.

My dad text DP to say that I needed to sort things out with my mum and could DP "have a word with me" the problem is he also sent the text to me by accident. Not amused!

Can I ask you all, do you still love your parents? I find it hard because I love my parents very much, it's that unconditional love that will always be there. It makes me feel very mixed up, I often think about what will happen when they pass away. I know I will feel sad but so many conflicting feelings about their parenting will come into play.

Hope everyone is kind to themselves tomorrow, it's bound to be difficult for some what with it being Father's Day.

Babies - hope your trip is not too bad! I agree that it will help if you can find something nice to do every day you are there to try and distract yourself. When I visited my parents i would also plan something really nice for when i came back home eg a facial, cinema or nice meal out, as my 'reward' for having survived my time with them.

Paint - i never looked on it as a rebellion, but that sounds quite fun! Got any other suggestions for how to continue in my rebellion?

How rude of your dad to text your DP! Though i don't find it surprising - when I went NC i actually expected my own dad to do something similar. Funny how they have the notion that our partners can 'sort us out'.

As for whether I love my parents... Mum - no way do I love her. She is the exact opposite of what i think a decent person should be. I used to love her - and I'm glad that i don't anymore because my head was all over the place. I found everything too raw and was always hoping for change etc. by loving her, i guess i was leaving myself too open and vulnerable.

But even though things were always confused, there was an actual moment when my love was completely shut off as i realised what a vile person she was. About five years ago, my uncle (dads brother) was in hospital with terminal cancer (he died a few weeks later). Mum went to visit him, and became upset (doesn't take a lot). She said he sounded a bit snappy and was being rude by not chatting very much. He was very scared, and in absolute agony, so i think he deserved a break. But mum began screaming and shouting right in his face about him being a horrid person and how the whole world didn't revolve around him! and continued to scream abuse until medical staff intervened.

My uncle was a lovely and very kind man, and seeing how she had treated him i thought she really is a horrid self-absorbed person. I was so shocked by her behaviour that any flickers of love i may have had went away instantly. I do not have a single positive memory of my mum so how can i love her? I spent many years in love with the idea of a mum, but that is not the same.

With dad, it is more complicated. A couple of months ago, I would have answered with of course, i adore my dad. Now, I don't know... Maybe a bit i think. I dn't know what to think at the moment. I just feel let down and betrayed. The dad that i adored seems to have been a figment of my imagination., so i am trying to be more realistic and work out what's left.

Love. I loved my df unfailingly and still miss him. If i had understood about toxic parents and narcs / enablers when he was alive i may have answered differently but in my heart i don't think so.

As for dm whilst we haven't had the big fall out she is just a little old lady i have to see a couple of times a year. I have no feelings of love towards her, i am just numb.

Today I can't decide what's most crap; a dad who verbally abuses me and is a bully or my ExH coming by today to play happily families, when he deserted the kids for another woman and hardly sees them to due to work and other commitments. The sooner today is over, the better as far as I'm concerned.

Hi all. I've been pointed your way on several threads, but like your opening post says, I've never been sure whether my situation is bad enough to warrant joining you!

I'm a long way on my journey. I have figured a load of stuff out. But I can't seem to get to the point where I can actually love and allow myself to be loved without putting up barriers and withdrawing...

How do I do that then? any ideas

Briefly - only child; my parents were emotionally abusive all my childhood. Mother controlling; father complicit. I developed an eating disorder. 'Recovered' at uni. Always very strange relationship with them (and also with food). Married in early 30s. 2 kids. PND. Controlling husband, also verbally and emotionally abusive (spotting the pattern). I started an affair (ouch); counselling with him and on my own; I was suicidal; I left my husband and moved out. Shared residence of kids. Divorce... Still seeing the bloke I had an affair with. Then my mother upped the anti with her control. Culminated in her abusing my daughter in public and being reported to the police (I wasn't there at the time). Since then NC with my parents.

Messy. Not a nice tale and I don't like myself at all.

My kids are my absolute world; my focus is on them. But my own relationships with others are non-existent. I seem to pick men who are emotionally unavailable (distant husband; my now boyfriend lives hundreds of miles away and is now divorced but not free of the guilt from his marriage breakdown either). I throw myself at them, then withdraw. And every time I end up depressed.

So - any ideas how I start sorting this out? I have had bucketloads of counselling (£££). I understand a lot of why I feel like I do, but still don't know how to sort myself out so that I stop feeling like this!

oh and when I say 'counselling with him' - I mean marriage counselling with my now ex.

Start by talking to us here, and start by listening to yourself. You have cut from the parents, and your Ex, and you know that your Boyf is part of the issue, and not a solution. Your boyf is not the man you need in your life. The person you really need in your life is YOU. Stop it all for a while and focus on you and your DC. Learn to see what is great in you (and I know there is MUCH)

Have you done the Freedom Programme? I don't think you are ready to have a relationship with a man yet. I think you need to have one with yourself first.

Well done for finding us here, this is a start to a much stronger you!