Help me calm down and deal with DP's behaviour rationally

[angrytree]

DP is an NQT and finds his job very difficult emotionally. He works 50+ hours a week, and is permanently stressed. Today he's being observed by the head, so is understandably worried about that too. I'm 41+3 pregnant.

DP sleeps in DS's room (long story), his choice. DS is 3 and wakes up at any time from 5am onwards. DP would be getting up around 6am given the choice. DP is also permanently knackered, which probably isn't going to improve much after I give birth!

This morning DS woke early and was making a lot of noise. DP eventually sent him in to my room, crying. 15 mins later DS and I were snuggling, but DS was talking at the top of his voice whilst I tried to get him to quiet down. DP marches in, starts shouting at DS for being noisy in the mornings. When I tried to get him to calm down he shouts at me, then marches off. A few minutes later he comes back and hauls DS off to his own room 'to think about what he's done' (he's 3, ffs), then has a go at me for interfering when he's disciplining DS (er, hypocritical much? I was dealing with DS when he barged in shouting).

I tried to point out that since he's angry and I'm upset it's not a good time to discuss it, but he keeps ranting, getting me more upset, and he eventually storms off to work, shouting 'I'm furious' and 'I'm in the right', leaving me in tears.

It sounds so trivial, and something that we should be able to write off once we've both calmed down, but stuff like this happens ALL THE FECKING TIME and I'm bloody sick of it. I know DP is stressed and tired, and I do my best to make allowances and be supportive, but I've had it with him taking it out on me and DS. If it carries on much longer, our relationship is not going to last. When he behaves like this I feel like I can't bear to have him as my birth partner.

Have I done something wrong here that I'm oblivious to? Assuming not, when he is being a complete prick totally unreasonable like this, how can I rise above it and deal with it calmly? I'm at the end of my tether!

I would say if he's so stressed that he's taking it out on you and your ds like this that a serious chat is needed. He needs effective techniques to de stress and relax before you walk out on him. Sit down and talk when you haven't just had an argument. I'm sure more people will be along soon with more advice too.

Well I don't necessarily think you can blame the job for him being like this. My dh works 60 hours a week and shares parenting equally and wouldn't dream of being such an arse. I also bet if you add up your hours of work at home / childcare you're doing more or the same hours as him with a lot of stress too!

Why IS he sleeping in with ds when it seems clear to me that he'd probably get more sleep in with you? Or even on the sofa if ds is going to make some noise and wake up at 5 (as both mine have!)..

Would dh have some counselling?

It doesn't sound like you've done anything wrong.

Yes your DH is under stress, but he can't treat you and DS like that.

Can he sleep on the sofa or something if DS regularly wakes an hour before your DH has to get up?

No, it doesn't sound like you've done anything wrong. Your husband is in the wrong, he is hugely stressed and is taking it out on you. He's being very selfish and needs to find a way to change- quickly.

Is it half term next week? If so, I would sit down with him at a time when you're both calm, and tell him very clearly how his behavior is affecting the family. Make a plan together to address the issue- he either needs to see his GP, go for counseling, talk to his manager or mentor about coping with the workload, or preferably, all of the above. And you need to make it crystal clear, that it's so serious he is in danger of losing you.

He could also think about practical ways to cope with the stress- I would suggest giving himself a set time to finish working, whether or not it's all done, working in one particular room so that when his time is up he literally walks away, and looking at his priorities- anything that isn't essential gets left undone. His manager should be able to help with that.

I hope he takes responsibility, OP and sorts this out. I'm a teacher, I know what he's going through, but he's on a destructive course- and in the long term or will be just as bad for his career as for his family.

The job is no excuse for his behaviour, but I think it's a large part of the reason. He works with kids from awful backgrounds with terrible behaviour problems and I think just wants his home life to be all sweetness and light shouldn't have got involved with me then

We have a futon in the living room - I don't know why it's never occurred to me to suggest he sleep there (once I'm bf'ing there's probably no point him coming in with me!). He seems to think DS is being naughty by waking up early and wanting to play. I'll suggest it - thank you

As for counselling, I think it'd be really helpful, but he wouldn't go. He's incredibly stubborn and sceptical and just digs his heels in when anyone tries to give advice [need a 'rolls eyes' emoticon]

Something else that just occurred to me- has he tried posting somewhere like the TES forum for support and advice? Or he could try the staffroom here on MN.

A lot of experienced teachers will have advice about websites, assessment etc that he may not be aware of as an NQT. If he's in primary, let me know if I can help in any way.

Thanks for the practical advice, Pozzled. Yes, it's halfterm next week and he'll also have two weeks' paternity leave, so I guess it'll be a good opportunity to discuss it properly. Unfortunately we can't talk tonight as my mum and sister are arriving today.

The really difficult part is going to be getting him to realise that he's being completely unreasonable. He can hold a grudge for years, and is currently running on a very short fuse, so just opening a conversation without it blowing up in my face can be extremely tricky.

Sleep deprivation combined with stress can make people do some crazy shit!! I've been an NQT and also work with very challenging children but I do try not to let it affect my DH or DSC.

I would suggest first off that you ask DH to sleep on the futon if he really doesn't want to sleep in with you (though I imagine the lack of closeness and physical contact of sleeping together isn't helping your relationship), so that he gets a proper decent nights sleep. Secondly, you do need to talk to your DS about getting up so early - maybe ask him if he could please stay in his room until a certain time (we put arrows on DSS's clock to help him know when it was okay for him to be up and noisy). Your DS will then hopefully realise that getting up early doesn't mean play time with daddy or cuddle time with mummy, but a quiet time, and may start sleeping in for longer.

Try to calm down and speak your mind clearly and calmly next time you see your OH. Good luck, and hope it gets better soon.

Fact 1: some teachers are lousy partners.

Fact 2: some teachers are lousy parents.

It is exceedingly stressful working with children who have behaviour problems but he certainly wouldn't get away with physically hauling them around and shouting at them.

If he doesn't want his own dc to develop behaviour problems, he'll rein himself in and enrol on a parenting course if he's unable to utilise the techniques and skills he's been taught at home.

Next time he treats you like dirt, remind him that behaviour he won't tolerate in his pupils is behaviour he shouldn't be tolerating in himself.

Sending you and best wishes for the impending birth of a sibling for your ds and I hope the 3 of you enjoy many snuggles together.

phoenix I think you've hit the nail on the head. A lack of physical closeness certainly isn't helping matters and makes it a lot harder to talk calmly and lovingly. I wish he'd come in with me, but there really seems no point until the baby is older.

DS has got a Groclock but we don't really use it. If DP goes on the futon, DS could stay in his room until an agreed time - that could work. Thanks for the suggestions :)

Pozzled He does use TES for lesson planning and such, but hates the forums. He's super-suspicious of the internet and hates the idea of talking to someone he doesn't know online. And he's incapable of taking advice, grrr. I'm making him sound a right twat, aren't I?

He's got Yr5, which from what I understand is the most work-intensive age group, plus several of the worst-behaved and most damaged kids in the school (small school, so not much alternative really). He's so reluctant to ask for help, but I will talk to him about it during his three weeks off.

He's been talking for ages about giving up teaching altogether, and in some ways I wish he would. Recently though he's been saying he needs to stick with it. I think I need to make it clear to him that if he's going to carry on teaching he HAS to learn how to deal with the stress better, as the current situation is making us all miserable.

I should add, in fairness to DP, that he is a really good teacher and deals really well with the difficult kids. Unfortunately though, he bottles it all up and brings it home with him.

I can't really advise you but I am in a similar situation to yours. My DH seems to shout at the kids too much and have inappropriate expectations of them. He shouted at DS2 for not making his bed last week and DS2 has never made his bed ever, he's too small to be able to shake the duvet out and straighten it. Our DS3 was born in November and since them it has got worse due to the extra stress and sleep deprivation. I have taken to quietly stating when his behaviour is inappropriate. For example, "You can't shout at him like that" or "Don't call him that name". I also intervene e.g. saying "Send him for time out" so that he doesn't come up with a ridiculous punishment. I'm just trying to get him to be more aware of what he is doing and that it's not okay. I don't know whether this is of any help to you. The other thing is that I have become aware that DH was emotionally accused and somewhat neglected as a child and I think he is suffering from not having good role models to draw on. Shouting, name-calling and what I call benign neglect, just leaving the kids to play by themselves are the methods he experienced as a child. Obviously I have no idea whether your DH has anything similar going on but it's something I wasn't fully aware of even though we've been together 17 years.

One thing is for sure, it isn't going to get better by itself so you will need some way to tackle it with him.

There are three issues here

1. His workload and stress. It's his responsibility to take steps to make this more manageable. Why is he reluctant to as for help? He is an NQT, he should be getting all the help he needs. As others have said, this is no excuse for his behaviour at home.

2. His involvement in family life. How much does he do at home? Do either of you ever get any down time to just rest or do something of your own choice? You both need to have this time, even if it's just an hour a week. Make sure that it's equal. He needs to learn that we all live with stress and we can't all be a big baby about it.

3. His anger and refusal to recognise it. He can hold a grudge for years? That has to stop, it's childish and unhelpful. You should be able to talk over all these issues in a calm way with him. Can you? Or is he likely to blame you, work, your son, shout, stomp around and storm off. If it's the second option he needs to get himself off to the gp to be referred for cbt.

It's not up to you to 'fix' his personality. He has to take control and stop blaming everyone else.

StuntNun Thanks for sharing your experience - I'm sorry you're going through this too. A big part of the problem is that once he's worked himself up (and it takes very little at the moment) there is literally nothing I can do to improve the situation - I can't put a foot right. If I try to calmly intervene when he's shouting at DS, I get shouted at to stop interfering, which leads to us arguing in front of DS, which I want to avoid. I do think his expectations are unrealistic - I often find myself saying 'DS is a toddler, that's what toddlers do'.

Fairenuff 1) I agree, I need to make it crystal clear to him that it simply isn't acceptable for him to take his stress out on us. Some of the time though, he's blind to the fact that he's doing this.

2. I'd say I get a lot more free time than him, and I know he resents this, but I don't honestly see what I can do to change things. He spends nearly all his time marking books and planning lessons - I can't help with that. I do virtually all the housework, he'll help if I ask him to, but usually it's my 'domain', which is an arrangement we're both happy with. If he could have some time to himself I think it'd make a massive difference, but there just aren't enough hours in the week. I'll think on it though and see if there's anything we can do.

3. It's more of the latter, I'm afraid. I will talk to him about seeing the GP, though I would be astonished if he ever agreed to go.

I can see we're going to have to have a serious talk. I just don't think he fully realises how much his work is affecting his behaviour towards us, and he's so hypersensitive it's very difficult to broach the subject. The other day he bit my head off because I said I thought it was going to snow - he somehow construed this as a criticism of him... sigh.

angry this sounds like a much more deep seated problem than stress or overtiredness.

You are excusing a lot of his behaviour - Some of the time though, he's blind to the fact that he's doing this

It's extremely unlikely. He just doesn't like you pointing out his entitled behavioiur or questioning it.

I just don't think he fully realises how much his work is affecting his behaviour towards us

I don't think he can really blame his work for his behaviour. Regardless, it's not acceptable for him to snap at you like that and for you to be treading on eggshells around him.

If I were you I would have a good think first about what I was prepared to put up with. I would book a babysitter and have a really productive talk about where to go from here.

You need to set some boundaries for yourself and if you can't do it on your own, take it to Relate. If you allow him to carry on like this it will just get worse. He won't change unless you make it clear to him that you're not going to put up with x, y, z anymore.

If I try to calmly intervene when he's shouting at DS, I get shouted at to stop interfering, which leads to us arguing in front of DS, which I want to avoid

There is nothing more natural than wanting to step in and protect your child when you feel he is threatened. There is no way my dh would prevent me from 'interfering' if I thought it necessary. Have a plan. Pick your ds up and walk out of the house with him. Keep a bag of bits handy in the car and remove him from the situation until your dh is calm. Make it very, very clear that this is one of the things that must stop. This is not negotiable.

You're right, our relationship does have more problems than simply his stress levels, but I feel that that is the major issue at the moment and is getting in the way of resolving anything else.

I think I worded that bit about him being blind badly - it wasn't meant to excuse him, but in the heat of the moment I do think he sometimes can't see the wood for the trees. When he's calmer I think you're right - he know exactly what he's doing.

There has been more than one occasion when I would have walked out (even if only temporarily) if I had anywhere to go. It's difficult because we live in a small village, I don't drive, I have no family or friends nearby. However I do have a pretty good relationship with DP's parents, so I could conceivably call them to come and get me and DS. I've tried to keep MIL out of it so far, but I think perhaps I should be honest with her so that it wouldn't be completely out of the blue.

DP just rang. He said he was sad about this morning and he loved me. Sad but not sorry, hm? Anyway, I was calm and nice about his observation (he did well). He agreed that we needed to have a long talk once my mum's gone and the baby's born (being induced on Sat). I need to be firm - thank you for reinforcing what I'm feeling and helping me see more clearly!

having a new born is going to raise stress levels and impact on sleep - you ned a concrete plan to deal with this for the next six weeks or so.

ds will be impacted by new sibling too.

sit and discuss scenarios and how to deal with them, who will get up with baby; who will deal with ds if he also wakes that kind of thing.

and a plan B if you need to get away with both dc for a while and leave dp to focus on his work.

In some ways I feel like I could have written your posts AngryTree. I can just see myself telling DH it was going to snow and him retorting, "Well what do you expect me to do about it?" Could there be anything you are doing that makes things worse? For example I have a tendency to mutter things under my breath and that annoys DH. Also I can be quite jokey with him and he doesn't always appreciate that. I trying to work on these things for him, it's not all one-sided.

If your DH is quite touchy it might be best to tackle matters indirectly. For example don't say he mustn't shout at DS, say now DS is going to be a big brother let's start disciplining him by, e.g. time out or whatever your parenting preference is. If you appear to be criticising your DH he may reject what you say (unless he genuinely realises he is screwing things up and wants to improve). One I find useful is, "Oh I heard was a good method of..." because then they think this is coming from some more knowledgeable source. For example, "I've heard the best way to get kids to eat a variety of foods is to ask them to at least try everything on their plate, even if they don't eat all of it" rather than saying "Please stop forcing DS to finish all his food."

Good luck with your induction on Saturday.

time out requires hands on parenting - it aint gonna work at 5 am. you need a differnt morning solution which doesnt invovle active time-out-ing... and some flexibility when you have a newborn and ds may be feeling left out... sending him off for "waking up early" isnt going to work. he is three - let him come and snuggle with mum(and baby) in the mornings. without risking being shouted at and hauled off .

It was just an example of how to gently get her DH to make changes without him getting upset at having his parenting techniques criticised.

I disagree StuntNun. OP needs to be able to talk straight with her dh and not have to pussyfoot around him.

Oh I heard was a good method of..." because then they think this is coming from some more knowledgeable source

Because you wouldn't be clever enough to think that up? Because he will accept someone else's suggestions but not your own? Why is that, do you think.

OP you and your dh need to sit down together and agree parenting strategies. If he says 'Don't interfere, leave me to it', you could say 'I will agree to that provided that you don't shout or use inappropriate language or physical force. Otherwise I will step in'. Then you both know exactly where you stand.

The trouble is that your dh loses his temper and then he doesn't act rationally. He needs to recognise this before he can overcome it.

hmm..maybe; but actually boundary setting "I am not prepared to put up with you shouting at DS unless he actually doing something which puts him in danger" . full stop.

"let's work on teaching him to be quieter in the morning" .

what's he gonna do when baby wakes up and cries in the night?
shout at baby?

i think op needs to be clear and tell dp - if you stressed and need to shout - count to ten and go outside. you have no excuse for shouting at me and ds. she says "stuff like this happens ALL THE FECKING TIME "

is shouting a "parenting technique"? discuss...

to me it isnt "parenting techniques" but about shouting ("disciplining"??? has there been a discussion with op and awith ds about morning routines, being quiet, what to do if he wakes up early? have they both been there to train him and teach him what to do if he wakes up early? bearing in mind he is only three... ) and the dp making it a bad atmosphere for all. the dp needs to quickly learn some stress management - coz next week things are going to be more fraught wih a new baby...

TBH, he doesn't seem a very nice man.
Particularly as you mentioned that he can hold grudges for years.

You can phrase things in a nicer way and ultimately walk on egg shells.

But he has to recognise that he can't be this grumpy, and shouty at you and your small DS.

As someone else pointed out, you should really address it before the second child is born. It can only possibly get worse with a small baby in the house.

Also, his behaviour is NOT your responsibility.

He's responsible for getting help and for controlling himself around his family.

Even if the OP's DH has an epiphany and decides he's going mend his ways, it's impossible to do this overnight as the stress and the bad habits are difficult to overcome. I would advocate making small changes and that's the tack I'm following with my DH's similar problems. Maybe I'm over-empathising here but it sounds like the OP's DH is touchy and sensitive and won't take kindly to being told what to do. By introducing new ideas more subtly he is more likely to incorporate them. That's just my thoughts on the subject. It's up to the OP to decide how she wants to proceed. If she can get lots of ideas on this thread then she'll have a fund to draw from to find what works best with her own situation.