Can a "good guy" ever cheat on his wife?

[confusionoftheillusion]

I met a guy last summer and became friends. Had a drunken kiss in November. Since then have been meeting once/twice a week.

Both married and recently have started to talk in detail about the problems we both have at home. He is talking about wanting to be with me, as in leave his wife and be with me together as a couple. I think he is wonderful in so many ways but also think that if he is that comfortable cheating on his wife he must be a bit of a dick. We haven't slept together but that is due to me being pretty upfront about the fact I wouldn't do that. I am also aware that me cheating on my husband makes me a not great person either.

As always the situations either side are not quite as straightforward as we would like.

I feel an awful lot for this man. However I am so conscious that we are having an affair so it's not the real world. How would I ever know if it would work in the real world? And is there ever a time when a 'decent' man has an affair? I feel that he is a "good guy" but then logically I think that he can't be as he is lying to his wife.

You haven't upset me. It's not that, it's just that I want to be as brave as you were! You're right - when I wrote "apart from the DV and the affair" I thought "what a fucking joke of a marriage!!".

I have thought about reading the Shirley glass book but there's no way I could read it without dh seeing it... Ironic when I managed to see another man that I say that!

You'll get there.

I often used to think, if only I'd put as much thought into getting into the marriage as I did into getting out of it, I wouldn't be in this situation.

I bought Shirley Glass, btw. But it didn't really help me.

Try "Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay".

you have very low expectations for yourself - can you talk a bit more about this rocking? I thought I was doing such a smart thing marrying a man who "ticked all the boxes" (except the butterflies one) so I thought I had quite high expectations. OM has told me he will leave wife and I have NEVER asked or hinted at that. Do you mean I should expect the butterflies? I just thought a solid dependable reliable man would be the way to go! (opposite to my dad who is wonderful but was a bit of a useless husband in his younger years!)

Yes - its funny. I just really wanted to get married and start a family. I nearly didn't marry him but thought (after some bastard exes) "well he'll always be kind to me and that counts for a lot).

^ that was in reference to the comment about putting thought into getting into the marriage^

I didnt really - I just said yes.

Can I ask, when was the last time you spoke to the OM? At all, in any way?

Well, I just think that you could perhaps settle for more than a husband who has hit you. And a marriage that you don't need to go outside of to get your needs met.

The world doesn't end if you end your marriage, I promise. It's not easy, and in many ways my life is harder, in a practical sense at least. But, a year down the line, not to have that nagging doubt, guilt, misery, eating away at me is priceless.

OM sent me something today.

You're right about settling for someone who hit me. I know this might sound silly but although I always swore if he physically hurt me I'd leave, when faced with it it's not that simple. The fact he was on medication I think played a huge role as looking back I can see his mood altered when he was on them. Also since being moved off them he's been back to his normal kind placid self. So even though he takes full responsibility for his actions, I do not think of it as being the 'real' him who did that.

The point about having to go outside the marriage is a good one though. I suppose I've felt too guilty and like I'm a shit person to actually think that the fact I've done that say so much about my marriage being shit. I thought it said more about me being weak.

Do you have DCs rocking?
Thats the bit that eats away at me the most

Yes, two. That's the bit that still breaks my heart.

But in the end I couldn't see how having a depressed and anxious mum who was having an affair was in their best interests.

I did give up my OM, for a whole year, no contact, to work on my marriage. Came clean, counselling, everything.

But if it's not there, it's not there. And it wasn't, for me.

I really feel for you confusion. I was married to DH at 21 (he was 22), he was good, kind and treated me well. I didn't have butterflies either but he was a good dad and we had a good life. No DV at all. At 45 however, I found myself widowed with two teenagers. For years I would have got on my high horse about OW/OM, it wasn't something I could understand and when I saw the devastation it caused to one of my friends, I vowed it was something I would never do. My family and friends were very supportive although it did dwindle away somewhat after a year or so. I began to feel lonely, my children were treating the house like a hotel, they had great social lives and I hardly saw them. So, I started joining various clubs/evening classes etc and even tried internet dating. Some dates were bad and others were better but I began to enjoy the single life (no washing pants/pandering to a man's needs, coming in and going out whenever I wanted to, etc) and didn't want anything too serious. Single life can actually be pretty damn good. Then I met my current DP. Mutual attraction was immediate. He confessed straight away that he had a girlfriend he'd been seeing for 7 months (they were not married/no children). He said she was a lovely girl, very caring but she was not "the one". He came on to me pretty strong and I succumbed after agonising about it for a while. A couple of weeks after that DP ended his relationship with the girlfriend and we have been together now for 18 months. We couldn't be happier, but I am well aware that I was for a short time an OW and I'm not proud of that. I consider DP to be a "good" man. It has made me realise that you cannot and should not judge people unless you have been in a similar situation. One thing though, you only have one life. Make sure it's a good one. You need to be happy and if being happy is walking away, then do it. It's not worth wasting time on a marriage or man you don't fancy the pants off, just because you don't want to hurt him or your family. But decide what to do for yourself, whether or not the OM is part of the future. Being single is scary, but it can also be very liberating. If you read the threads on here about single women, most of them are happier than they've ever been. Good luck whatever you decide.

The thing is, for sixteen years I never looked at anyone else. Even as a student at uni while ex-h was at home.

Having an affair just wasn't ME.

So when I dis it, it was the proof I needed that we really were over.

Not that I didn't feel bad. I did. Still do. Was a rubbish thing to have done. But, one behaviour doesn't define me, and people do things for a reason.

*did

Yeah - I haven't ever cheated either and consider myself a very loyal person so it has shocked me. The most shocking thing was that the morning after it happened (a kiss) I woke up and felt no guilt whatsoever, just a longing to see OM again.

I am seeing a close RL friend this weekend and plan to tell her everything. I know she had an affair in the past (Pre marriage but she has since married him) so I know she wont judge me but I could use some rL advice.

I have a happy life, I'm not anxious, depressed and life is easy without real stresses. So it is hard to walk away from the marriage. But if I do I feel like I didnt at least try for my dc....

rocking - are you an xh able to be amicable? Are the dcs doing ok? How old are they? Thanks for all your posts

^ she married the guy she was with when she had the affair - not the guy she had the affair with^

DCs are fine. Sad, but able to see some positives. They've made me very proud this past year, and have both said me and their dad seem happier.

Me and ex are fairly amicable. He's not happy that I'm with OM, but that's to be expected. We keep it going for the kids. Managed a nice Christmas Day together, for example.

Oh, they were 11 and 13 when we split.

I don't think your marriage is going to work confusion which is a different thing to whether it could work if given a chance.

You are too mired right now in a script that he was never the right man for you and that if he'd made you happy, you wouldn't have had an affair with a married man.

That might be partially accurate, it might not, but it's what's in your head and you are looking for things to support it, whether that's other individuals' stories or your own possibly selective memory.

Being in contact with the OM is sabotaging both your marriage and your own clarity.

Have a think too about this script you've got running about yourself being a good person who is honest in all her dealings with people apart from the isolated act of the affair. From what I've observed, that needs challenging a bit. You might be a good person, but the dishonesty that's required to have an affair is never a discrete entity and so it shows up in your dealings with others too.

For example, I don't know you or how you behave with the others in your life but I can observe your lack of straightness and honesty on this forum with people who have given up time to help you. You denied being the OP of the other thread that was too identical in posting style and circumstances for it not to have been you and you either evade completely or give a politician's response to questions about your own continued contact with the OM i.e. 'he sent me something today' (presumably to mark St. V) - neglecting to mention your own contact.

You're sabotaging your own truth by these actions and so your marriage cannot work while this is your mindset.

The truth about a situation always going to be compromised while we are seeking ways to bend it or shape it to fit what we would like it to be. Often the real truth is something that can only be seen from a position of distance and hindsight and when there is no pay-off for twisting it to fit the circumstances or our self-image.

Erm charbon - appreciate the bluntness but I said the thread about the DV was mine when you asked. Name changed cause DV always skews everyone's opinion and I don't think this is my husbands genuine nature so that action carries a lower weight for me than if it did.

But wow - you sure don't hold back!!!

I appreciate your honesty - just felt rather attacked by the post!

I've re-read your posts and I can't see where you agreed the other thread was yours. What you said when I asked you whether you had another thread about this was:

(Yes i have got another thread on mn with a different name but not about this.)

If you can point me to the post where you said something different, I will apologise unreservedly.

I posted on 02feb at 00:13:47 that I'd had a thread on here but I didn't know how to link back to it. (and I don't know how to link to that post saying that either!)

I don't want you to apologise though!

I am so confused. I think I just need time out from both men.

The other threads I've had on M.net under my normal name have been about entirely unrelated things!

From other posters' reactions, it sounds like there has been more than one other thread in the past but my issue was whether the other active thread at that point, chronicling an identical situation, was yours. You indicated in reply that it was not. That's all.

I agree you're confused, but I think some of your own actions are responsible for that.

Now that you've said that the other thread was yours and that you'd name changed because it skews responses, you might want to think a bit more about that and how you deal with information.

I agree the mention of DV skews responses because people apply their own value judgements to it. I accept that the most important judgement about that is yours, but if yours is to decide that the DV was in exceptional circumstances and that it has no true bearing on your husband's character, have a think why you changed your mind and mentioned it, quite late into the thread?

Was it to alter people's responses because until that point, posters had been quite challenging of your behaviour?

Or was it to give posters a full picture so that they could give you balanced advice?

Only you know your true motives, but I see potential parallels here with what might be going on with your marriage and the affair.

Your husband doesn't have the full picture and so his responses are skewed based on the information he does have.

You don't have the full picture of the OM's marriage and so your responses are skewed based on the information he gives you.

The OM doesn't have the full picture of your marriage and so his responses are skewed too.

The OM's wife doesn't have the full picture......and so on.

We all have the capability to skew information we give and therefore control the responses. Sometimes the results are fairly innocent, but where the stakes are high, they are not. The situation you're in is one where the information various people are skewing and with-holding is compromising others' ability to make judgements and decisions.

And that sort of manipulative behaviour tends to leak out into other areas and affect other interactions.