Family disapproval of my 'naughty' child is out of control - what do I do?

[ICouldBeYou]

For various reasons, my 4yo has been generally labelled as the 'naughty' child of the family. I am not blind to the idea that I am being blinkered, but I am fairly sure that he is behaving in a very similar manner to his peers and cousins - some of which is 'naughty' behaviour but that I am working on with him (I've started 123Magic although we were using other discipline before...not 'nothing'!)

Long story short, today my son throws a stick which hits his Grandpa and Grandpa reacts by picking up DS, shouting at him ("this hitting must stop!" which is reference to the fact that they think he is the only child who has hit another despite dodging his cousins' claws for the past fortnight without retaliating), squeezing and shaking him and then actually taking him behind shed out of sight of DH to continue shouting and squeezing. DS obviously terrified, DH in shock and shouts at his Dad, I don't hear about it until my return at which point DS claims that he didn't mean for the stick to hit him...

DS has been punished for throwing stick but what now? MIL already announced in public that I wasn't a good parent, and I know that they discuss us with other members of the family and how much our parenting is lacking but surely resorting to roughing up a 4yo is not what they want?!

Do I say anything to FIL? How do I stop DS from carrying around the label they have given him?

The bit that stands out to me is actually how they like to tell you that other locals are only being polite when they appear to not have a problem with your DS - this is clearly bullshit and even if it was true (I would not believe it for a second), it is not their place to speak for others anyway. They sound absolutely pathological. It's like they've fixated on your DS as the 'root of all evil'. Some people do this in their family; make one person, usually someone vulnerable, somehow the receptacle for all bad feeling by labelling them negatively. Quite possibly they are calling him bad in lieu of voicing annoyances at work stuff with your Dh, or similar. Whatever it is, they will psychologically scar your boy for life if you allow them to carry on. You are NOT powerless in this situation and must act to protect your child. Because if you don't, the vile things they say about your son will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Even if your son had hit his Gf deliberately with a stick, what the Gf then did would still be totally out of order and, more importantly, out of control. His reaction was totally overboard and shows he is choosing to vent his temper on your son to make himself feel better. It sounds scarily disproportionate. What is worse, now he has acted that way and got away with it, he will allow himself to enjoy the 'fix' of punishing your son so nastily and scarily again and again, and once it loses its thrill, will get progressively worse.

Do you think hewould be capable of seeing that he was in the wrong?

You're probably right Holla, it probably is OTT, but I'd be doing it regardless (if how the Op describes it is true & I've no reason to believe otherwise) as there's no way I'd let anyone treat me or my children in this manner!

[Although I'm sure your way would be much better long-term! ]

Yes that's a good idea fil. Punish aggressiveness with further aggressiveness. I would seriously go mental how dare he?
Yes stand firm and keep him away.
I used to think my dgs was naughty then I had dd2
Humble pie was eaten by me.

Yr PIL are weird. If they were the average type of person and really couldn't stand your DS, they'd avoid him or arrange family time when he was under both his parents' control. They are the problem here, not you or DS.

I suspect that the posters here suggesting scapegoating have a point. And DS is FOUR not 14, which doesn't make PIL look any more reasonable.

On the other hand, being shouted at once doesn't kill anyone. If DS has got any sense, he'll know to stay away from his grandfather, which, frankly, looks like a great idea from here. Minimise GF to DS (Gramps is ancient and was shocked etc).

Do not turn this into an intergenerational row between you and PIL. They're difficult enough already. Encourage DS to be resilient about what happened & avoid PIL in as many small ways as you can think of.

Sounds like a really difficult, toxic, enmeshed family set up and I think you need to distance yourself and your boy from them, I really do. Is moving at all possible or are you stuck for financial/other reasons?

That sounds awful...your DS must have been terrified. :(

Not that it matters, but did he deliberately throw the stick at them?

I agree with Holla ...a firm talk with FIL followed with "this is what we are doing for discipline, we could use your support."

Sounds awful, especially to typecast any child as "the naughty one". Why do people DO crud like that?
How supportive is your Other Half? He should be dealing with his relations, not you.

I have two nephews who were burdened with that label when they were about the same age. They were known to their GPs and aunts/uncles (including me) as "the terrorists" - they broke stuff, tore up the place, embarrassed GP in front of friends, never intentionally violent or malicious but would occasionally hit someone by accident as with your DS and the stick.

A couple of years later and they are... absolutely lovely. Chatty, bright, sunny little guys, lots of friends, exceedingly polite, and no longer known by any unflattering nicknames.

I don't know what my DB and DSIL did in terms of discipline, if anything. They certainly never had any lectures from any of us on how to handle it (although embarrassingly quite a bit was said behind their backs.) They also live a long long long long way away from both lots of family so contact was limited although I don't think intentionally.

Perhaps you just have to minimise contact as best you can for these difficult years when behaviour can seem out-of-control. Sometimes GP find it easier to handle an older child anyway.

I would have liked to pick that stick up and hit FIL with it had he shouted at my DD like that. Accidents happen.

I would hit the roof in anyone did that to my child! You have to say something to him otherwise he will think its acceptable to do this again and it's not. You need to make it perfectly clear that if something happens you and DP will decide on what discipline method you will use and no one else

My fil is on at my dds constantly actually. They are little but it's dont touch this and that etc bossing them about. He recoils if dd2 needs a nappy change or is a bit sick.
I'm just wondering where that will lead after reading thus thread.

My DNephew was labelled by my DS's inlaws. They didn't like him. This was years ago but DS is furious that she didn't put them straight at the time, also, due to longstanding family issues, her DH was useless.

I would go to DFIL with DH and firmly tell him his behaviour is unacceptable.

I would reasssure DS that grandpa is being nasty/ ridiculous and he mustn't worry.

Maybe DS reminds DGF of a younger brother or something. There was a prog on Radio 4 this week, Book of the Week, a psychoanalyst describing cases and one was a girl with bedwetting probs, she was the problem in the family, as the girl improved the family (previously distracted by her 'problems') discovered deep relationship problems.

bookoftheweekprog
Not sure if this link is the actual prog, it might have been a different day.

Maybe didn't explain well but the radio prog was about a 'problem' child when actually the problem was between the adults.

Why would 'the family' in OP have it in for one child, sounds unreasonable and unfair.

Thank you everyone for your messages, support and perspective
DH is fully supportive, he didn't intervene sooner as he didn't realise what was happening right away. I think he was more shocked than me having witnessed it, iykwim.
He made it very clear at the time that it was not acceptable, although tempers were running high.
DS hasn't mentioned it again, and I know that raising it with FiL will just trigger a lecture on parenting which I can't face right now. I think I will bide my time and try and find an opportunity when I am less angry to tell both pil - then they can't dismiss it as being said in anger or anything.
Mowing is not an option but DH and I have agreed to start being more aware of how differently we would do things if PiL weren't right there and try to aim to do that instead of what we think they might 'approve' of. It's a start!

And I think the posters who have suggested that it is actually issues between the adults being taken out on him is quite likely. Lots of simmering! But the last time I confronted unacceptable behaviour we ended up severing contact for months and it was awkward and horrible for everyone. And was only manageable because I had one small child who was too young to notice really. I need to work out a way of minimising their (pil) behaviour so as to protect dc without having to completely avoid pil... Sigh

I would be inclined to be proactive about this and have a chat with your PIL where you reinforce the boundaries:

He is your son

They have no right to criticise /label/ punish him

You hope this won't happen again (or you may have to reduce contact)

You don't need to justify / excuse / explain your position

End of

You don't rely on them for childcare do you? This sounds very unusual for an occasional weekend visit with grandpa, it sounds like the man has been pushed to the edge. Sure, you are the parents and discipline should be your domain but it's their house and they should be able to have rules in place too. I just read another reply and they said that you live and work with them? I think you should definitely get your own place.

No, we don't live with them, just very close. This happened at our house but, even if it had happened at theirs I'm sure I would still be upset at the extent of fil's response to my son.

I know I need to be proactive, I'm just a chicken I suppose!

You do need to be proactive as this is upsetting your ds and undermining your and dhs' confidence as parents.

I don't mean to be unkind op but it makes my blood boil when I see people say they are chicken about dealing with issues that are upsetting their kids. I was that kid whose dm didn't or couldn't step in when other family members acted out or overstepped the mark. The scars and consequences carry on for years.

"I need to work out a way of minimising their (pil) behaviour so as to protect dc without having to completely avoid pil... Sigh"

That aim cannot be achieved, apart from anything else this has to be a two way process. Toxic people refuse to play ball. You perhaps on some level think the PILs can still be reasoned with - if they are toxic or dysfunctional they clearly cannot be reasoned with.

Contact between yourselves and these people was severed previously due to unacceptable behaviour; who reinstated contact and why?.

Why is moving also not an option?.

Your ILs have not to date apologised to you nor have accepted any real responsibility for their actions. You cannot back down from this; your son has to come first here and if that means potentially "upsetting" the ILs again so be it. No time is actually a good time to talk to these people; they will still blame your son and by turn yourselves as his parents regardless. You as parents are also having your abilities taken into question by these people and you two as adults do not have high enough or adequate enough boundaries re your ILs.

You also need to unmesh yourselves from these people; the closeness here is unhealthy for you as your son's parents.

Poor little ds. If I were you I'd be looking for a new home and dh would be looking for a new job. It might be easier to emigrate - I'd considered it, so I don't say it flippantly.

If you don't stand up for your ds, who will? And don't take fucking parenting criticism from a man who attacks a small child and takes them away from everyone to do what exactly? If you weren't related you would have called the police I think!

You are right, I do need to step up and stand up for ds. Thanks for the kick up the backside I needed.

Contact was severed before as mil is an alcoholic (now recovering) and I refused to put up with all the shit that went with that after many years of trying to support her (and him).

In some ways she has never really forgiven me for seeing her at her most vulnerable and she thinks that I reckon I am 'better than them' and often calls me a know-it-all, or similar. Everything I do differently is a criticism of her.

Actually, there is so much to unravel that I wouldn't know where to start or finish!

They cannot be reasoned with but I know that, if I at least have my say, then I have done what's right, even if it changes nothing.

We can't move, but I will be minimising my children's contact with them until they can appreciate and enjoy them.

I'm unsure as to why you seem to be willing to accept your child being abused in your presence? Why didn't you call the police?

If you don't protect your FOUR year old, then who the hell will ffs? It's the most basic tenant of parenting to be the protector until the child is big enough to protect themselves. Fail at protection and you have categorically failed as a parent - it really is that simple.

These people are toxic and seem hell bent on passing on their issues and pyschological problems to the next generation. WHY are you allowing it?

Tell them their behavior is bang out of order when the children are not present and then follow through calmly on any boundaries you set. Make it clear that basic decency and your child's physical and emotional welfare is not a topic for negotiation.

1.If you take our child our of sight to physically assault them again we will have you prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

1. As parents, we are the sole arbiters of appropriate discipline for our child. If you have a problem with any aspect of our child's behavior then you come and tell us calmly and we will deal with it as we see fit.
2. You are not openly disrespectful towards us directly, or indirectly in our child's presence at any time. Verbal bashing of a child's parents is not acceptable. If you cannot refrain from such inappropriate behavior then contact will be terminated.

You can point out that virtually every children's centre has a class on child protection/parenting and that they are welcome to sign up for one if they feel the need.

123 magic is a very good book and helpful for all children who do not have a developmental disability. Well worth a weekend reading just to boost your confidence in your parenting abilities in the face of such nastiness. It might be especially helpful for your husband, given that the toxicity is emanating from his parents and we are all vulnerable to the emotional climate our parents create.

If your child does not respond to the methods described in this book then it may be worth getting them checked out by a pead, as mild hearing loss (due to a touch of glue ear), or short sightedness etc can often cause behavioral problems in children of this age yet can be really easily resolved.