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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

is it me or him?

33 replies

lovemenot · 07/01/2013 02:55

So my dh is very emotionally unavailable. He gets defensive, not only when challenged but also when I want to talk about something he doesn't want to talk about. He has absolved himself of all discipline of our 13 year old daughter. Other than a perfunctory kiss goodbye etc there is no other physical or intimate connection. Earlier in 2012, he handled a family situation in a way that addressed his needs but totally ignored mine. In fact, that I might be very hurt never even dawned on him. Another situation a few weeks later resulted in him calling me a fing bitch over and over. He refused to discuss or apologise, I refused to accept being spoken to with such disrespect and when forced to discuss he said he reserved the right to call me a fing bitch if I deserved it. I said we would seperate, he then apologised for his intemperate language but not for the hurt it caused. Currently we are in the middle of a silent row....he bullied our dd and when I called him on it, he reacted aggressively and stormed out of the house.

So I'm in stubborn mode. I have always been the one to open the dialogue on sorting the issue. He will turn it back on me, I will get fed up trying to be heard and the issue remains unresolved. This time, I'm trying to hold out on the fixing. I really want him to care enough to want to sort it out. I'm still waiting......26 days now.

But over the holidays with time to think and ponder and talk to my sisters, we each acknowledge that how we handle confrontation is not always healthy. We all have a tendency to build a wall and hide behind it lest we get hurt. Some families can have a screaming match and all is forgotten five minutes later. We tend to internalise and self-protect.

So of course, with dh being the way he is and me being the way I am, am I sabotaging my own relationship or is my instinct to self-protect a learned behaviour or a true instinct?

I know that online personality tests etc are notoriously unreliable and that only a specialist can diagnose any PD but the Hare test shows my dh as being strongly NPD. He hates being wrong, will turn the blame on me, is emotionally unavailable, is aggressive, curses other lowly humans, believes he is superior, believes himself to be highly intelligent etc etc.

(Thank goodness I am back to work tomorrow as I really have had too much time to think )

Am back to counselling tomorrow evening so will discuss all this with my counsellor, but interested in your thoughts - assuming, of course, that my thoughts make any sense!

OP posts:

tallwivglasses · 07/01/2013 03:03

He called you a fucking bitch over and over again. Then gave a piss-poor, half-hearted apology. Not good enough. And if you think it is, please look at it from dd's pov.

tallwivglasses · 07/01/2013 03:06

And I should have added, you've spent nearly a month waiting for him to start talking. He's wanting to grind you down op.

ThinkAboutItOnBoxingDay · 07/01/2013 03:10

He is horrible to you and his daughter. Why on earth do you want to be back on speaking terms?

Grumpla · 07/01/2013 03:24

It's him.

Allergictoironing · 07/01/2013 08:09

List the things you've put in your OP without the "chat" in between.....

Emotionally unavailable
Defensive & won't talk about anything HE doesn't want to talk about
Addresses his needs & ignores yours
Repeatedly calls you bad names, won't apologise for the hurt it caused you
Tells you you deserve to be called names, and it's his "right" to do it
Bullied daughter
Stormed out like a stroppy teenager

Then again, you sum him up quite well in this sentence He hates being wrong, will turn the blame on me, is emotionally unavailable, is aggressive, curses other lowly humans, believes he is superior, believes himself to be highly intelligent etc etc.

So explain to us why you want to be on talking terms with him, or even live within a few hundred miles of him? And please don't say "for DD's sake" because this is a very bad environment for her, as she is learning that this behaviour on the part of any future husband is normal.

Sugarice · 07/01/2013 08:33

Does he have any good points OP because reading only makes me wonder why you're still living under the same roof.

Being called a fucking bitch and 'reserving the right to call you one if you deserved it' would be enough to get his hook well and truly slung!

overmydeadbody · 07/01/2013 08:39

It's him. He sopunds awful. Why are you even with him?

CailinDana · 07/01/2013 08:42

I absolutely boggle at the way some people talk to their partners. DH has never ever called me a name in 11 years and vice versa - it he ever called me a "bitch" even once it would do serious damage to our relationship -I would expect a grovelling apology at the very least. The fact he called you a fucking bitch over and over and then claimed he has the right to do that "if you deserve it" WTAF????? is beyond unacceptable. What about if he decides your daughter "deserves" to be called a bitch or a slut?

It's time to end this relationship now, there's no point in trying to save it. I'm surprised you have to even ask - where did you get the idea that you had to put up with this sort of treatment?

CogitoErgoSometimes · 07/01/2013 08:49

This man is abusive. He abuses you and is going on to abuse your daughter. If you're trying to say 'I'm as bad as he is' then you're simply not good for each other. I don't see any point in sticking around for more punishment.

AlmostAHipster · 07/01/2013 09:00

OP, your tolerance of abusive behaviour has gradually become so high that you can't see how awful this is. I get that. I've been there. You've written this post wondering if there's something you can do to save the relationship. There isn't.

Protect your daughter, if you can't protect yourself right now. End it and get her the Hell away from him before he does her any more damage.

JamesAndTheGiantBanana · 07/01/2013 09:15

Oh god. I remember once growing up my parents didn't speak for 6 weeks, I was made to be the go between, the atmosphere was horrible. One of the worst times of my childhood and I remember begging my poor mum to just apologise (it wasn't her fault, dad was just an almighty turd, these things would always carry on until she apologised even though it was always his fault. She was trying to change that bless her)

Leave him. There's a whole world of better men out there, he doesn't sound like he brings anything positive to the relationship!

JamesAndTheGiantBanana · 07/01/2013 09:17

Meant to add, she stayed with him for me. And the whole time I was wishing he'd leave! Ask your dd how she feels.

Original poster

lovemenot · 07/01/2013 11:56

Thank you for your replies :-) I guess I'm trying to figure out if I have enabled his behaviour by not calling him on it more often, and not expressing my needs more clearly.

I'm certainly not "just as bad as he is". I never ride roughshod over his or anyone else's feelings or opinions. I have never called him names (unless you count referring to him as a grumpy shite when talking with my sister). I have brought my daughter up to respect and be respected.

I'm not afraid of this marriage ending, and if he ever called her the names he called me, it would be over before the words finished coming out of his mouth. And yes, I am aware that her hearing him calling me those names is abuse of her. He hasn't done it again - yet.

I guess I'm still in that place where I'm reluctant to label him abusive, without first identifying my contribution to it. As always, there is his story, her story and the truth.

OP posts:

CogitoErgoSometimes · 07/01/2013 12:02

Why do you think that someone's abusive behaviour needs to have a contributory element? Abusive people don't need a contribution, just an excuse. Don't provide that excuse. Also, please don't offer your DD up as the "canary in the mine" to test whether he really is abusive or not. You know the answer to that and the poor girl doesn't have to suffer just so that you can have confirmation.

olgaga · 07/01/2013 12:10

Forget about whether he has a personality disorder. He's abusing you, plain and simple.

Why are you looking for excuses for his behaviour? He isn't behaving like that because you have "enabled" it. He's behaving like that because he wants to. Nothing excuses that kind of abuse. It's intolerable.

I feel sad for your daughter growing up in a household where her mother is abused but hangs around trying to blame herself. What kind of example is that giving her?

Ask yourself this. Would you be happy if you knew your daughter was being treated like this by a boyfriend or husband? What would you say to her? Would you be telling her to examine her own behaviour or would you tell her to get rid of the bastard who is abusing her and treating her with such disrespectright now?

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 07/01/2013 12:10

if he ever called her the names he called me, it would be over before the words finished coming out of his mouth

Why not afford yourself the same respect as you would give DD?

You are just as deserving.

Allergictoironing · 07/01/2013 12:15

TBH whether he's "officially" abusive or not, if you aren't happy in your marriage you don't need any excuse to leave.

CailinDana · 07/01/2013 12:56

You have not enabled his behaviour. I guarantee that 100%. My DH would never ever call me these names, no matter how much I "enabled" it. A person chooses what to say, you don't put those words in his mouth and force him to use them and no matter what you do you don't ever deserve them, ever. You absolutely cannot take responsibility for him calling you a fucking bitch because nothing you could ever do would make it your fault.

I feel sorry for your daughter that you're waiting until she gets hurt until you protect her, despite the fact that you know she's in danger.

Mu1berryBush · 07/01/2013 13:00

Your way of handling some things may not be text book perfect but

he called you a fucking bitch over and over
worse imo he says he "reserves the right" to call you a bitch

So, he considers himself entitled to abuse you. He is the judge of what behaviour is acceptable.

he sees your 'flaws' and will criticise you but won't accept any criticism
he's aware of his own needs and they are met; he makes sure of it but he doesn't notice your needs. Whether he cares or not he just doesn't see your needs.
you're not happy. please don't make the classic mistake of investing a lifetime's effort and love into a dead marriage. It just isn't worth it.

time to go

Mu1berryBush · 07/01/2013 13:07

Agree with other posters. My x has npd too I'm sure of it, massive sense of entitlement, he expected my FULL support all the time, but never gave me a thought or a kind word, financially everything was set up to suit him, I did everything around the house and he criticised! but now that I'm free and it's all behind me, it doesn't really matter why he was abusive. He just was.

The issue was that I chose to accept it and put up with it. I can't believe I did that now. I can NOT believe it. WHY did I?

OP, My x will always believe that I was massively at fault when I was only trying to have a voice (a small one) but after a while apart that begins to matter less to you. Any woman who didn't put up and shut up with his controlling ways was going to be labelled mad/bad/bitch in his book. Let them get on with it from a distance.

ImperialBlether · 07/01/2013 20:52

Can you think of somewhere far, far away that you and your daughter could go to? The further you get from this man the better.

I'd go to a solicitor and start to get things moving.

Original poster

lovemenot · 07/01/2013 22:23

Went to solicitor this morning, got info on legal situation re the house etc. I may end up moving out as he won't give up this house without a fight, but he will be obliged to support our dd and me. Solicitor will send me a list of mediators.

Went to counselling this evening. Am getting closer to being ready to admit it's over. The silence of the last four weeks has left me numb. One minute I'm veering towards anger, then swinging back towards fear, then devastation. But I can't hold on to one emotion coz I'm afraid I'll breakdown and cry for ever! Once the tears come, I'll be able to deal with all this head on. I'm actually afraid to talk to fw but I know I have to.

I'm getting there!

OP posts:

olgaga · 07/01/2013 22:31

Well done, it helps to initiate things, get the process moving. Making decisions helps you feel more in control rather than stuff just happening to you.

TisILeclerc · 07/01/2013 22:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mu1berryBush · 08/01/2013 13:58

I hear you with the house. some battles are too big to win. let the house go and aim for the financial support far enough away that it is a fresh start and he can't drop in every ten minutes

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