Kissing during sex

[Seekingthezone]

When DW and I had sex she would always refuse to kiss during the act. I found this odd as GIfs prior to marriage had always kissed. I found it quite sensual and part of the joy. it was a simulation as well. it was dental hygiene getting in the way either.

it seemed really odd to me that we could be in the middle of the most intimate thing that a couple does and she felt uncomfortable kissing during it.

Any one else come across this or have views why she would not kiss.

She will kiss to say good night. But that is a dry very quick kiss. No passion.

Btw married for 10+ years but it has always been like that.

Thank you CabbageLeaves. Very nicely expressed. Hounded is the word.

I am not aware of my OH using
mumsnet.

When I see where you are you going with the question about a female contact to discuss these issues is I may answer. For the moment that is a leading question that I am not answering. Damned if I do. Damned if I don't.

A simple yes or no would suffice

I'm not keen on kissing either, I didn't mind when we first met but it does nothing for me now years later. I can't really breathe through my nose very well so I have to alternate between kissing and gasping for air, it ruins it because the whole time I'm thinking "running out of breath... getting uncomfortable... get off me!" and wondering if my breath is ok etc. It's not romantic or sexy, and it has nothing to do with my partner who is a perfectly good kisser.

I've had (not in the biblical sense) a lot of bad kissers though, from a guy who kissed so wetly I felt like I would drown. I was a brief kiss, less than ten seconds before I quite literally shoved him off me and shouted at him, it was that bad! but I'll never forget it as it makes my stomach churn just thinking about it. Big fat slack lips all over my face. ALL THE SALIVA IN HIS MOUTH was all in/on mine, slack tongue sloshing all over me Writing this did not help my morning sickness at all, ugh.

Then there was the skeletal guy with no lips who gnawed at my face and chin and left me really red, sore and with a hicky next to my lip. It hurt! And of course the 0-60 guys who only seem to have one mode: Full on passionate snogging with fully open gob and whole tongue exploring your back teeth all the time.

Could you unintentionally be a bit of a 0-60 man? It's a bit intrusive.

James.. I had not thought of it like that. It is not the case though. I tried in different ways and gently. As part of the foreplay and also mid-act so to speak. Non worked and I backed off.

It struck me it could be one of two things.
1 she is not a kisser. Shame but it is the way it is.

2 she really is not into me as much as I was to her (puns aside) since women are apparently able to have intercourse in a more detached way than is the case with kissing [learnt from an earlier post]

I have tried to discuss issues in the past around the physical side of the relationship but was told I was always going on about sex

This is sad.

seeking i would add a no.3 to your list at least re:the kissing. It may just be that your kissing style doesn't suit her. Which would be the easiest of the 3 to rectify if that is the case?

You say you feel the relationship is deeply troubled. What's your gut feeling about this? Is it the mismatched sex drives? Is her sex drive lower than yours do you think, or is any lack of intimacy a symptom of something wrong in the relationship?

I hope you don't feel hounded here.

I would add a 4) You are seeing another woman and she is aware that you have emotionally detached.

It really isn't a leading question, and actually, I have asked a woman on this site the same thing. Her answer was yes.

It's the wistful reflection on investing in the wrong genetic bank that raised my antennae. That's a classic line for someone who is thinking how much happier they would have been if they had married someone else. A specific someone else.

There's a book called Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass you should read, if any of this is accurate at all. The thing is, there is a process when someone has an affair, if they are basically a decent person who loves their wife, as opposed to a happily compartmentalised philanderer. Decent people need to justify something they feel at gut level to be wrong, so they frequently begin to examine all the things about the spouse they dislike/find annoying, detach emotionally, tell themselves the marriage is a disaster... and then feel they have permission to have an affair. It's a pattern that crops up on Mumsnet over and over and over again, and actually it's a pattern you see in women wondering if their husbands have begun an affair - that detachment from the relationship, and sudden hyper-critical attitude in what used to be a normal relationship.

TBH if you didn't have such a woman in your life, you'd be indignant in your denials. In focusing the indignation on being asked the question, you've sort of answered it.

Honestly I think you need to have a long, cool think about what you can do to salvage the marriage, because putting your emotional energy into another relationship while nominally continuing with the marriage is guaranteed to hurt your wife terribly, and destroy the kids. You're emotionally detaching and it sounds like you are doing it so you can blame her for the marital collapse, rather than an affair. If that's unfair then I apologise, but this is not a new situation here on MN. It happens all the time. There's a sort of script, even.

Incidentally if she's never used tongue when kissing it really could be down to tongue-tie. A badly tongue-tied adult may well have insufficient mobility to kiss that way - they can only use lips. If it were emotional/sexual in origin then it would be a new thing, not the way it's always been.

I don't really like kissing during sex and I fancy the pants off my DH. I just like to concentrate on the other feelings and the things in my head. I know my DH would like more kissing so we do it sometimes but other times not so much.
I know you've mentioned a lot of other issues but in relation to the OP, it could just be that she's not a fan of kissing with no deeper meaning.
Hope you get happier in your relationship, however things are resolved.

why does there have to be a reason why she doesn't want to kiss??

I love my DH and find him SO sexy, We have a very active, varied and unusual sex life. Yet we do not kiss during sex. We are very affectionate, always kissing and cuddling generally, but just not during sex!

TwoFacedCows - lucky you and DH

I totally accept a relationships is not going to be wild forever with us hanging from the chandelier. But it seems reasonable to expect something meaningful - be that interest in sex or passion/warmth/kissing/cuddling outside the bedroom but there was none of that for years. The kissing was just one aspect of that poor physical side that stuck out and so I was prompted to ask others about it. Hence the post.

I now see sex was granted to keep me quiet. I suspect that was true for a long time. It always took place at the the same time at the weekend, within a small timing window. Then it was coldness during the week until the next weekend. Not allowed to touch at night in bed, never mind have sex and sleep blissfully afterwards.

Not even a quick cuddle or kiss in the morning either. This went on for years. I questioned it mulitple times away from the bedroom and was told she had to get up, she didn't feel well, she had to get up for work etc. etc. She does not/did not appear to miss the connection, the physical side of it.

I guess the frustration is all mine as I still want that level of connection with DW that a close physcial relationship brings. Even after all these years

I have to face up to the fact it is not being reciprocated and maybe that is the crux of it. The switching off by DW and the rejection that directly delivers to me. It would be definitely be time move on time were it pre DC but I am where I am and I need to see it though. Managing the imbalance is tricky.

The other issues of leaving the job etc. (mentioned in another thread) come on top of this core issue and compound the frustration. You put up with more s**t when things are good .

Hi, Could it be that she is going through menopause? Sounds a bit that you might be at that sort of age? She quit work - was that due to stress? Stress interferes with the sex urge and mild depression will often start with withdrawal from relationships.

Sadly I feel something else more serious has gone on with your wife she isn't letting you know about. She seems very defensive. You could try and push her to go to Relate, but she may not open up. You may have to really shake things up to get her to take you seriously. Don't keep putting it off to deal with this problem, as the longer you leave it the more vulnerable your relationship will be.

Don't feel too bad about feeling negative about her. This is normal. Mother Nature is telling you to give up on her and spread your wild oats elsewhere. That genepool comment is exactly right! That's what Mother Nature wants you to think! But don't give up on her just yet. Too many people on these forums tell you to leave at the first sign of an issue. That's just running away and you won't learn from it what went wrong and probably repeat the same mistakes. It's bad for your children. They will see a failed relationship and won't know how a good relationship will work. In the teen years when they become more difficult to control they will challenge your authority over them because they see you as having let them down. Think how much better it will be if you manage to work through it, for all of you! Some of the best relationships are based on getting through the tough times. We only really know a person when we know their "dark side" as well as the side they prefer to show us, and we all have a dark side. Relationships aren't just about a marriage certificate and job done. They are a journey.

Greer.

Hmm. Well if bad breath and smoking are ruled out then it must be the wet kisses. I can't stand wet kissers. Even people who kiss me on the cheek and leave it wet makes me a bit queasy

Same here FNelson. I absolutely hate drool, and unfortunately in my experience a lot of men think "passionate" kissing is about sticking their tongues as far into my mouth as possible whilst poking about around my teeth and generally smearing me in spit. Euw! I find good kissers are rare, but I love kissing when I find one. If someone is a "bad" kisser I avoid it as much as possible. Even with a good kisser I find it difficult to kiss and fuck at the same time though.

I dont enjoy kissing during sex. I like a little kiss beforehand and afterwards, but during sex I just dont find kissing that sexy...

I avoided kissing me ex as much as possible. he was like a washing machine, shoving his fat slobbery tongue into my mouth and wiping it round. so he got closed mouth dry kisses. when he managed to rein himself in long enough for me to take the lead i loved it, slow sensuous kisses with a tiny bit of tongue. he would go wow then dive straight back in again with the slobber. so he never learned what i liked so he never got kisses. he was shockingly bad in bed and incredibly selfish as well

I think, OP you are very comfortable seeking advice about your wife as 'the problem', but when posters try to get more of a sense of the context, you are being very selective in what you will/won't disclose. I am sure that this will play a part in your relationship issues. It doesn't matter how much or how little you choose to share, if you see yourself as not having a part in it, that can be a tremendous turn off in a partner.

It's clear that, for reasons unknown or undisclosed, there is a lack of emotional attachment between you. Staying together for the children is not generally considered best for the children. Children learn about relationships from their parents and this unhappy marriage is not a good example for them.

Greer123 - good words thanks.

kittybiscuits - not exactly. I am more than happy to accept I am part of the problem. I want to know what to do to sort it out which is why I naievely entered into this website looking for answers. I have some answers and have leanrt a few things. Much of it has become shadowed in personalities though as people replay obviously well rehearsed views and prejudicies in some cases.

I have now come to see the kissing as not the real problem. After lsitening to other it could well be the way the DW is and I attached too much importantance to it. But given the ack of communication then I attached more weight to it.

So to now and how do you have a dialogue with some that with someone who appears to be closed and comes out with words to the effect that "...that is the way I am now...". That really throws down the gauntlet.

Fairenuff - fair point. I have being try to keep a lid on my frustrations for the sake of DC but it does become waring day in, day out for years on end. I still see the split as worse than the staying together. We would not know that for sure though until both had happened and we compared. A bit like the movie Sldiing Doors.

I love open mouthed kissing during sex. It was part of lovemaking with my ex OM and i treasure that memory.

So to now and how do you have a dialogue with some that with someone who appears to be closed and comes out with words to the effect that "...that is the way I am now...". That really throws down the gauntlet

You don't have a dialogue with her. Because she doesn't want to talk to you. She doesn't want to kiss you, cuddle or even touch you. She certainly does not want to have sex with you.

She is not throwing down the gaunlet. It's not a challenge it's a way of telling you that she does not want sex with you.

I now see sex was granted to keep me quiet. I suspect that was true for a long time. It always took place at the the same time at the weekend, within a small timing window. Then it was coldness during the week until the next weekend. Not allowed to touch at night in bed, never mind have sex

There is nothing you can do to get a sexual or emotional relationship back unless she wants the same thing. And she clearly doesn't.

Your choice is to stay in the relationship as it is and you all suffer. Or separate and give both yourself and your wife the chance of finding happiness.

You cannot change her, you can only change your own behaviour.

Btw why do you want to have sex with someone who finds it so distasteful?

All very well put, Fairenuff.

I would also add:

Or separate and give both yourself and your wife the chance of finding happiness ... and give the children the same chance of happiness too. The tension must be palpable in this household.

faiefuff - brutal, but spot on really. Although i tend to think there may be a little more hope than you suggest.

Firstly, staying together for the children is a recipe for disaster OP. You've mentioned how you may have handled things diferently 'pre DC' a couple of times now. Children do pick up on the machinations of their parents relationships even if you're doing your level best to cover them up. You may think ''as long as their lives carry on on a good even keel and they are not seeing us rowing then everything will be fine. I/we are adults and clever enough to make sure they are none the wiser''. This is fantasy, sadly. So perhaps try to put 'staying for the children' out of your mind while you think about what to do for the best.

I still see the split as worse than the staying together. We would not know that for sure though until both had happened and we compared

• few people relish a split. But i think you know the time is right when

a) you can admit to yourself that the relationship is making you (both?) miserable long term, and the thoughts of jumping through hoops to put things right feels like too much effort. You only get one life. You're entitled to find a way to make that happen, moving forward responsibly and kindly as you can, for both of your sakes.

• and/or b) - there are kids involved who may being damaged by seeing an unhappy set of parents.

It might feel as if you've gone from a fairly simple question about kissing to discussing divorce here on your thread, but, as you say yourself, it's obvious the kissing issue is just a tiny tip of an ice-burg. To talk about the kissing and even the sex, tbh, at the moment, seems to me to be like shinning a torch into the Grand Canyon at night and be trying to work out the whole picture.

Your DW has effectively shut herself off from you, physically and mentally.

Re: the physical side of things, i'm finding it odd that you say this could well be the way the DW is. I feel you should know, y'know?!

You're entitled to be happy* and to find a way to make that happen ....

Hi "seekingthezone". If you leave your wife she will take the kids, probably take your home, you will have less money to spend. She might then make it difficult for you to see your kids. She may very likely take up with another man, who will then be the father of your kids. Maybe he won't be the step-dad you would have chosen for them? She might (without realising it) bring home guys that turn out to be a danger to herself and your kids. Maybe I'm getting old and cynical but I don't really see divorce as some kind of panacea - seen too many disastrous divorces and second relationships for that. Divorce will change the nature of your troubles but won't make them go away.

In any case, do the kids really see much trouble at home? I'm guessing this problem is mostly on a slow-burn which bursts into flame once in a while. We used to believe tension at home was a big issue for kids back in the 70s/80s but those theories have died a death 20 years ago at least. Psychologists now believe that all relationships have problems at some time and the best scenario for kids occurs when the parents successfully work through those problems.

A positive balanced view there Greer...

I'm divorced.
she will take the kids We didn't have a residency order leaving kids are free to decide.

probably take your home We split the house 50/50.

you will have less money to spend He doesn't pay maintenance but yes he does have less money cause he's no longer sponging off me...

She might then make it difficult for you to see your kids I have facilitated contact repeatedly for my DCs sake but his social life seems to hamper his access.

She may very likely take up with another man, who will then be the father of your kids I have 'taken up' with another man who is NOT the father of my kids.

Maybe he won't be the step-dad you would have chosen for them? It's not up to my ex to choose the step dad for his kids (how fucking controlling would a man have to be to decide that was is role???)

She might (without realising it) bring home guys that turn out to be a danger to herself and your kids The man I was married to was the danger! I suspect a patriarchal moron would feel differently and blame me however.....