Ok. <deep breath>

[reallynotright]

DP and I have been together 12 years, 2DC, 6 & 2.5yrs and I think we are broken

We both have faults, lots of resentment, hostility and anger. It's obvious to me this is not good for the children and I am banging my head on a brick wall that DP can't see we are simply not happy or right together, and there are unresolved issues.

I have been working on and taking responsibility for my behaviour (snappy, irritable and shouty to DP and DC, resentful to DP for not helping out enough) and always try to minimise the impact on the children, if I lapse. DP doesn't have this awareness though and I don't think he can see his role in our troubles. DC deserve so much better than this, it is breaking my heart.

At times I am honestly scared I will be taking all the responsibility/blame if we break up, that DP will get nasty and I will break under the strain. He said a few years ago, during a row, that if we ever broke up he would take the children and say I was "nutty and couldn't cope".

This is deeply offensive and hurtful for many reasons, and on many levels, which he knows.

It terrified me at the time, and it was a good time later (about a year) when I felt strong enough to pull him on it and show him it as abusive. He said he didn't remember and that it was likely just a heat of the moment thing and he obviously (?) didn't mean it. We did go on to have a positive talk about if we did ever split, we would always be able to work things out positively as we usually do, and because the DC will always need both of us as parents to do that (although I realise now these were my words and sentiment to which he agreed). But it has stayed with me, that he could even think and say such a thing.

He can also be disrespectful around my lack of libido, and gets angry and hostile when I turn down his advances (usually late at night when he comes to bed and I am exhausted) and threatens to move permanently to the spare room. He has said we will not get married all the while the lack of sex is an issue, which is fair enough in some ways. I however need to hear and believe this is not an issue if my libido is ever to return (ie take the pressure away) which he struggles to comprehend.

At the same time he also says he will never leave, he is not a deserter and that he cannot entertain the idea of him living in a shared house and only seeing his children at the weekends.

So we are at stale mate.

There is a lot more. A key issue at the moment for me is imbalance in responsibility around the house and parenting, particularly since I want to return to work, developing a new venture which is enormously positive. He thinks I am being selfish and wants me to wait until the children are older. On the other hand I believe it is important for my self-esteem, and will make me a better person, parent and partner.

But, I also know I need his full support if I am to make it work. So I am feeling heartbroken and a failure on both fronts.

This is sounding awful isn't it? I am also in danger of developing a fantasy crush (would never act on) on someone who shares my passion, level and understanding around things that are important to me. I know it's just a symptom of the troubles in our relationship, but it's a crush on someone who could be really helpful to my venture so now I am likely to mess this up too.

I have made the wrong choices, and I am questioning why things have got this far. What a fuck up

Thank you if you got to the end of this and sorry if slow to repond to any replies. I am meant to be writing a funding bid but all this is floating around in my head .

I can't understand how he can hold not getting married over your head - why would you want to marry, when things are so bad anyway?

He sounds on the abusive side.
Someone who is nasty about not having sex isn't exactly going to get anyone's motors running! No wonder you have no libido.
He wants you to make unnecessary sacrifices for his 'family ideal' rather than supporting you as a person in your own right? Where are his sacrifices?
He says he wouldn't leave? Well, there are ways of getting around that - and one person doesn't get to decide whether they are in a relationship with someone else, it's a mutual thing - if you choose to end it, you have that right and he can't stop you.

If you do the most of the work in the household, what really does he bring to make your life easier? Perhaps without him there would be less work, even.

Your crush is irrelevant really, you need to focus on what kind of future you want and not have it revolve around the man you're with.

I think the reason the conversation about what you'd do in the event of a split stayed with you is because it's actually what you'd like to do. There seem to be a lot of fundamental incompatibilities but what bothers me most is the 'resentment hostility and anger'... you may be able to tolerate that kind of treatment as adults but I wonder what effect it has on your children to live in such a destructive atmosphere. It's significant you've never married despite having two children together. He's saying it's 'lack of sex' but, given that your eldest is six, that sounds like a great big excuse to avoid commitment & keep his options open. Some men I know equate 'marriage' with 'divorce' and 'being taken to the cleaners' for money.... and avoid it at all costs.

BTW... if you can develop a fantasy crush you don't have libido problems at all. You simply don't want to have sex with your partner. That's quite a different thing. Nothing to do with a damaged psyche or physical problem

If you want to fix the stalemate you either need to both engage wholeheartedly in relationship counselling to resolve your differences... OR... you skip that stage, talk to a solicitor and start the process of formal separation. He may not want to be a non-resident parent but sometimes we don't get what we want in life.

Short message as on phone, sorry. Agree that you are making all the sacrifices here, also think that the resentment, anger etc would disappear if you were able to develop as a person which means your business venture and non-parent side. I think your crush is because your friend/ business partner recognises and sees potential in part of you your husband refuses to let develop, if that makes sense.

I'd agree with every word of dequoisagitil's post.

When I see comments such as We both have faults, it suggests someone who has reflected long and hard, and frequently, on their behaviour. This often happens when there is constant conflict and blaming by one party, leaving the other hurt and trying to figure out what they've done.

And you've been working on taking responsibility for your behaviour. This too tends to occur when someone is worn down by conflict and low level abuse (or maybe not so low level) ... They begin to snap at people, feel guilty, and try to improve, pretty much on a continuing basis. It's exhausting.

Not helping in the home; telling you you're nutty and unable to cope; threatening you with taking the children; pretending not to remember or that he didn't mean something hurtful; responding with anger if you turn down sex (meaning you're a hair's breadth from giving in for a quiet life); telling you he'd never leave; and trying to stop you working ( so he'd have financial control - not to mention making you miss out on something that's important to you)... These are all typical controlling/abusive behaviour patterns.

In your shoes I would keep going with your enterprise, write that funding bid, and find someone in RL to talk to. Relationships shouldn't be such hard work, and when they are, something's badly wrong.

Thank you both.

dequoisagitil re: marriage, before the post-dc issues set in, we always said we would get married when we can afford it, which is a long way off since I am not working. In an ideal world we would be embracing our capacity to accept imperfection in ourselves and each other, but work at constantly changing for the better - marriage would be an open commitment to that in my eyes, since we have already made a life time commitment through being parents together.

I think it may well now be a case of rose tinted specs.

Cogito I absolutely agree it is not healthy for the children, even with every effort to shield them from that behaviour. Things have to change. And I hear what you say about libido - I can say it was most def a physical thing for a significant time, no-one on earth could have made me want to participate in penetrative sex, and I was in denial about that for a while so shut down, which I know isn't DPs fault. I thought I'd never be able to have sex again.

But it is different now, I agree. In part due to his hostile reaction during that time, particularly when I opened up to him about the physical damage. He found it vey hard to go at my pace without me feeling pressured to do more, but we did manage it eventually.

And now, it's interesting my libido has increased since beginning my venture. It's making me feel good about myself, but also exposing that it is not our relationship making feel good, which is bad. I'd prefer sex to be a result from spending quality time together and an early night with dvd cuddles etc, rather than being woken for an after-the-pub quickie. I have made that clear and am sticking by my guns to no avail (I am punishing him and witholding sex apparently).

dequoisagitil is very right to talk about sacrifices.

It is good to have had an opportunity to think that through, and I will also think through your other points too. Thank you for your posts.

x posts! will read the others now, thanks

snowshapes that's made me weep. That is exactly it. This man (who I hardly know) shone an absolute beacon into who I am, and made think about who i could be.
I am terrified of a split. I take my decision to have had children with a life partner very seriously. It's all so inconceivable.

Ladywordy thank you too.

" I take my decision to have had children with a life partner very seriously."

Doesn't mean you can't take the decision to remove that life-partner but enable them to have a constructive relationship with your children equally seriously. It's not wrong to make a mistake.

"I'd prefer sex to be a result from spending quality time together and an early night with dvd cuddles etc, rather than being woken for an after-the-pub quickie"

You and probably 99% of the female population....

Cogito, both points very true! (and the latter made me laugh so that is good )

I whole-heartedly want him to see and understand that perhaps he's made the same mistake I have in choosing me. I think he could be much happier with someone else. I think we are going to need a counsellor to help with this, him in particular, but I'm not sure how much a reality that is.

The practicalities scare me shitless though - I have no money other than a big overdraft facility and am investing everything I do have into the venture. We live in a rented but bigger house than either could afford alone.

Thank you all. I am going to take a break now and get on with the bid, since I have practically forced dp to take care of the dc while I do, having got nothing done over the holidays. He can and does help from time to time, just not always reliably and I am fed up with it being such an exhausting process.

You can't make someone see your point of view, especially if they have a lot invested in the status quo.

Don't insist to yourself that he has to agree it would be best for both of you to split before you can make that leap - he may never see that. And it's not your responsibility to make him happy about breaking up if it comes to that.

That's very true. I guess I can see that it would be better for the DC if he did, and trying to make it happen. Counselling is the way forward.

Re: doing my bid. Yesterday I asked DP to take DC out for a walk and maybe to McD's for a treat today so I could have some time (he let me and DC1 down yesterday by not doing this when he said he would: instead half a day in bed, then out to a couple of hours work, back at 4pm). I said I'd be doing the same today.

Just popped down to make a sarnie. DP is downstairs on the sofa, everyone still in their pyjama's, with footie on telly. Lots of moaning and whining for me as nothing doing. I feel guilty now. DC2 hadn't had a nappy change when I went down earlier and did it myself at midday (wet and heavy but not leaking).

It's not boding well, is it. I am still going to see the same washing up, and the house as I left it, and a load of unstimulated, grumpy DC to put to bed, aren't I?

Fek.

So he's sabotaging what you're trying to do in a passive-aggressive way?

Either that or he is just darn lazy and thoughtless. I'd prefer to think it was that. I don't think he is that calculated but given he has said what I am doing is pointless and he doesn't understand it, I wouldn't be surprised.

Still a PITA and exhausting to deal with. WTF do I do?

I think I can hear them getting ready to go out. Right. PEace and funding bid.
Thank you MN. I am quick to support others and naff at asking for it, but thank you and I will be back to vent some more.

I just think it's mighty convenient that being lazy & thoughtless also coincides rather nicely with putting a spoke in your wheel. It may be subconscious rather than a calculated thing - doesn't matter, the outcome is the same.

I think you should continue with doing the bid. If you can't do it at home, go out to a library/internet cafe or family/friend's place. The dc will survive one day in front of the tv and the mess you can deal with tomorrow.

oh x-posted. I hope you're hearing right . It's always good to be wrong.

I don't even know what your venture is, and I don't know you reallynotright; but even as a stranger I can pick up your enthusiasm for your project, and feel a bit excited on your behalf! :)

Quick, sketch out that bid ... I can't stand the suspense! (just kidding)

When you come back... please consider that if a stranger feels like that, then someone who cares about you should help and encourage you every step of the way. And if they don't, chances are they are entitled and self-centred at best, and will never improve (and will be the same whoever they are with).

I was right, they have gone. But mind you it is fekking gone 3pm and a load of stress to get to this point with little in the way of loving reassurance.
So PA? Probably.
Sigh.

It's this kind of scenario makes me think of fantasy man - now he would have been up at 6, cleaned and sorted house, brought me brekka's in bed and told me how fantastic I will make my funding bid, before taking the kids out for a wildlife spotting adventure and bring home a takeaway for tea and giving me a lovely massage. All of which without being fekking asked, poked and prodded into doing so

Anyhoo - funding bid.

x-post again!

Thank you ladyWordy. It's been a long time coming

Don't overthink the relationship / breakup. Get the funding. Do your stuff. Everything will fall into place after that. It sounds brilliant, whatever it is. :)

I can tell from your posts that what would make the biggest impact on this situation for you would be for your DP to say "I'm excited for you, I know you can succeed, and you have my full support in helping you achieve your potential with your business idea". If you were to feel some level of encouragement and support from him, I think a lot of other things would sort themselves out too eg the bubbling resentment you have for him/each other.

It's telling that yesterday when you had planned time for your work, he went and spent time on his work instead. I think for me the lack of respect for me as a separate person with ambition and drive would be very hard for me to overcome personally.

I speak from experience, myself and DH have a sometimes turbulent relationship, but he recently supported me on a business venture that was a complete career change and that by his own admission, he didn't really understand! I absolutely value that support because it shows that even though we have our problems sometimes, he fundamentally wants me to be happy and fulfilled. I think that's what your DH is lacking.

You don't need his permission or agreement to end the relationship.

Right, quick tea break.

Always I think hearing that would make a big difference to my respect for him. And also acknowledgement there has been some progression in the bedroom dept instead of poo-poohing it. He has actually undone the good work by describing the last time we had sex as "barely sex" (this was the first time i have instigated sex in years). Way to go He'll be lucky if he gets any ever again!

I think he views my work as a stressor (resulting in no sex for him), when actually it is his lack of willing support that is the biggest stressor (and turn off) whether I work or not. It's probably why I am miserable as a SAHP. I am definately someone who needs my effort acknowledged. He is not someone who finds that easy, I rarely hear any praise for my parenting even.

Once before, at a crossroads about giving up work, I asked him what he thought my strengths and qualities were, what attracted him to me - he said "you're good at cleaning and good with the DC". When pushed for more he honestly couldn't think of one other thing to say, and then got huffy and accused me of fishing for complements.

I read this as him finding it difficult to express himself. I thought I could deal with that. Turns out I can't. I sure as hell won't stand by and allow the DC to be treated the same, which in a way worries me about splitting. I won't be witness to how he is with the DC as they get older, but I know trying to control that by staying together isn't healthy either.