"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's January 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see <a class="break-all" href="http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/440839-but-we-took-you-to-stately-homes-a-thread-for" target="_blank">original thread here</a> (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn?t have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

Follow up to pages first thread:

I?m sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don?t claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

I have cut and pasted this because I think it is fab. Just in case anyone misses the link.

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

oh for you midwife! when I read that I was tempted to say, that your response here might have been the best thing to text in reply! It would feel good wouldn't it? grrrrr disgusting dispicables.

well done for refusing to hear the vitriol and diatribe! I don't think i'd have been strong enough to stop listening.

They used to tell the story of me walking up the road crying with my little suitcase & being brought back by a neighbour & laugh about it. How funny!!!

Mine seemed so normal because looking back I was quite isolated, the only kids I mixed with were my cousins I never realised I was lonely stupid as that sounds till one day a couple of years ago I saw photos classmates had put on FB- sleepovers, brownies, tea at each others houses, parties. It had really never occurred to me that any of these people saw each other outside school!

I ran away from home at 14, just couldn't take anymore. Fell into even worse company but it seemed at least to be of my own choosing. I was a real mess when the police finally (months) brought me home. I tried twice more to run then just gave up. My mum demanded an apology from me for the embarrassment she'd suffered.
As soon as I was old enough to get married I 'found' a candidate and left home. I have wasted so many years wondering what the hell is wrong with me.

midwife oh yes, fucking hilarious! grrrrr.....

Oh oopla does this mean you are not wasting any more? so saddening that you ran away at 14, but i do get that, it felt to me somehow the most appropriate place to be, on the streets (when home isn't home).

them rolling out that story time and again for their amusement just reminded me of a friend years ago telling me about her mother waking her up out of bed as a child, when she would be drunk with friends over so that she could have her daughter dance and sing for her friends' entertainment! - hope that made sense! the child [my now grown up friend] the drunken mother's friends.

God that reminds me of Postcards from The Edge - Carrie Fisher's autobiography - her mother Debbie Reynolds who used to do that sort of thing!!

midwife that's heartbreaking.

I got very angry once

Midwife, how cruel they were

Oopla, i know what you mean about all the nice things others were doing. I didn't realise until I left home at 18 that it was not normal not to have any pants as a child and wear your brothers old y fronts. My parents were not poor they just didn't buy me underwear. Don't get me started about periods.

Oh my goodness, unschool!

Unschool that's just awful. It's all so unnecessary isn't it? I used to go to ridiculous lengths to conceal the things we didn't have.

My daughters about to hit puberty and I can't imagine not being in tune with that. It's just cruel.

I'm so sorry they did that to you

but nothing changed! - I had 'just been angry'

hi everyone, i was hoping to post here to get some stuff off my mind, have had a bit of a sh** week tbh. I posted here previously maybe 7 mths ago or so, under a different name (I was the one who witnessed her older sister get hit daily most evenings with a stick which was kept behind the sofa in the tv room) Since having my own DCs I have been utterly exhausted with my own thoughts of how bizarre my upbringing was by two supposedly repsectable teachers etc etc. For 10 years now, if toxic DM wants to contact me (we have always lived apart, since I went to uni age 18) then 500 miles away, then other side of world, then now 300 miles away) she will ring my phones - home phone will ring up to 66 times, I've counted. Luckily mobile goes to answer box after several rings, but I cannot bring myself to listen to her voice.

I have had a busy tiring week so far, DH (lovely lovely DH) is away with work, I'm doing the SAHM thing which is fine.

But - I feel knocked back 1000 steps because she keeps ringing and ringing. I don't want to hear her voice this week. I've been going to sleep straight after putting kids to bed. I NEED NEEED NEED my quiet times, something which was very very lacking in our house - I refuse to call it a home - growing up.

I don't know what I am asking by posting here. Maybe just am I justified in not answering her calls? At one point the phone dropped out of my hand as I looked to see who was calling on the caller display and it turned itself off. I took it as a sign that it was to stay off.

I think I do blame her for my younger brother's issues now in his life and also for the fact that my older sister cannot settle anywhere and is off, far away from me. But she is happy there, so I am happy.

I just am angry so angry with M for all those wasted neglectful years - I never felt 'clean', prepared for school. Always felt I was odd one out, didn't know how to do anything socially well. But was clever. But she was more interested in her career and fixing up her next house.

Thanks for reading and letting me get this off my chest. I hate how it all comes back to haunt me sometimes. There was nothing I could do back then to stop the horrible evenings happening. And that makes me so so sad and angry.

and yes unschool the periods thing - when mine started, she waited in the car outside the supermarket and sent me in to buy liners/tampons. As I opened the car door she said, 'but does it make you feel dirty having your period'

I mean FFS. I have a daughter now, and I'm damned sure that isn't something I will say to her when she's a teenager.

I still don't understand why people have children they clearly don't want, treat them appallingly & yet badger them for contact as adults ?

Thanks midwife you have put it so succinctly, why is she so bothered in wanting to phone me, the calls are usually dominated by her social goings on, who said what etc she is such a gossip and i suppose on my surface the first thing i think is why she deserves contact with me or my dcs after so many years of being violent in front of me. Watching her. Fkashbacks of watching her in a rage come to me every 6mths now and stay for around 2 weeks. Awful.

welcome Oldtoys sounds awful, sorry

Children are just things to them I reckon, things to serve them, but everything but us annoyed them, only the bits that make them look good do they want. Then once we're adults they can continue to show off by proxy, but also be supported by us now or used as the housekeeper/general dogs body before leaving home

Well she doesn't deserve contact, only she thinks that, or we slowly do after a while. I went NC many years ago but felt the total bad guy girl. It was an awful struggle to break away, but at the same time a huge relief and all the drama left, and my night terrors. So I can, with this distance now, say I would just block her number... but you will choose your own path through however you feel comfortable with as you don't have to put up with anything, you've already had to put up with far too much from wat you 've said here. I hope you can find a way of being comfortable and happy without her! xx

Such supportive words thanks FairyFi, we last spoke 10 says ago and during the call my Ds dropped a dinner plate accidentally (she tends to call during mealtimes knowing dinner would get cold)

so I said 'have to go!!! Byeee!' And hung up on her. She didnt sound pleased but I didnt care. Hugged DS and swept up the broken plate thinking that had that happened when i was a child all hell would have broken loose. So many memories. Exhausting. Does anyone else just find it all exhausting, knowing a parent is out there wanting to contact but to hear their voice is too debilitating mentally to listen to?

My Dad pinned my son down when he was 4 (7 years ago) and beat him after he fiddled with the cutlery. I grab him from between my Dads legs but still allowed contact with them. Wow how could it have taken me so long to see how toxic they were. My parents blame me for their bad relationship with my son (he won't talk to them, swears at them and says nasty thing to them). They say i have brainwashed him against them! Yes I find it exhausting to say the least.

yes extremely exhausting it was - now no, only the sometimes whistful thoughts of wouldn't it just sometimes be nice to not be without family, or to have some help to share the load, but I made my choices so I gotta live by them. Now if anything goes wrong everyone can just blame me again !

It's mentally exhausting because its all precious energy wasted on people who give nothing back. Just take take take. Vampires.

I'm feeling it today, a family member has been placed on the sex offenders register. I know a whole can of worms is about to open and my dm is heaping guilt onto me by text. If this is some kind of test of character I really hope there's a good prize at the end.

Like a nice new pair of boobs or better teeth

Good on you Fi- tough choice I'm right at the point of NC, it must be hard.

1st prize: to have had a different family

unschoolmum

The sound of the phone ringing makes me cringe never mind hearing her voice which is now all babyish & weak as if she's at death's door. She's been "dying" since she was 49. She's 73 this year. My father never speaks to us on the phone. He used to go to Tesco's when we visited. He just sends nasty texts & emails instead. I actually hate them.