So it's not all in my head then:( (long)

[MerlotforOne]

Can't quite believe I'm writing this, but need to get it written down before I minimise it again.
This morning, DH and I both a bit tired, DS (3) acting up a bit. DH offered to take DS and dog for a walk so I could get some peace. DS was being difficult about getting his coat on and DH was acting as though his temper was getting strained. He muttered 'I don't work hard all week to come home to this!' And then pinned DS on the stone floor and wrestled him into his coat. DS was sobbing and I wanted to comfort him, bu DH snarled t me to go upstairs and let him get on with it. I would normally retreat at this point so as not to provoke him, but today I decided not to and stood m ground.

He asked me again to go and I said if he was upset he should take the dog out and clear his head, and leave DS with me. He said 'you really don't want to push me just now' and I asked why he was threatening me? He walked over and shoved me really hard through the doorway into the next room and onto the floor. DS saw this and ran over to me. We both somehow ended up upstairs and DH followed us up and stood there saying I was over-reacting as it was only a shove had provoked him so i deserved the shove.

I was crying and DS was upset and brought me his muslin and dummy . I refused to let DH touch me and he told me again I was overreacting and denied the comment about me deserving it, said I had made that up. He then took DS and went for the walk. I haven't been able to send being in the same room all day, but daren't leave in case he gets really angry and does something worse.

He has only physically assaulted me once before, 8 years ago on holiday, and was so drunk at that time that he passed out and claimed no memory of it. He can be grumpy and I feel I walk on eggshells and that I have to justify myself a lot. Since the incident 8 years ago, I've always backed down before he lost his temper, and fooled myself that he'd changed, but I discovered mumsnet 6m ago and have been reading a lot on this board and feeling increasingly uneasy that quite a lot f it applied to me.

He is not at all financially controlling, but was very jealous and quite controlling of my social life (back when I had one) and can be quite argumentative after a drink (not that he drinks much these days). He can also be loving and affectionate and we have long periods of time where everything seems fine, but I've been excusing his behaviour for a very long time and now there are really no excuses left.

Don't know what to do really. Thoroughly miserable and very confused.

Talk is cheap, Merlot. He can't claim that you can trust him to never to do that again because he doesn't know that, it's a process that can take years. Lundy Bancroft goes into some detail about his later in his book.

At the moment you need time and space to process your emotions. Is it appropriate for him to have such regular contact with you, if that's the case? My ex had no respect for my requests for space, another boundary crossed.

Oh, cross-posted with half the world it seems.

To clarify: of course DH and I have both got DS into clothes when he didn't want to before. The difference this time was the intensity and anger rather than just being a bit annoyed, and the fact that he was on the stone floor in the kitchen rather than carrying him brought to the soft rug in the hallway, which is what we would normally do if we have to wrangle DS into outdoor clothes. Of course DS might cry a bit at having to do something he doesn't want to, but there was a difference this time in the pitch of his cry, he sounded frightened rather than annoyed.

I wasn't 'in his face', I was a good 10 feet away,stood in he opposite doorway to the one I was going out of.

I have never seen DH react physically in anger to DS before, or I would have stepped in. When I say I would normally back off, I mean when DH is in that bad a mood, he normally stomps about and picks arguments about trivial things and I placate him a bit until he recognises his own mood and goes off to meditate to clear his head. Over the past 3-4 years it's gradually built up to the point that much of his time at home is spent in the spare room meditating, whilst I deal with everything else! He has actually acknowledged this in the past few days.

Three,

I actually normally do exactly what you suggest, at least when it comes to outerwear. But I would draw the line at allowing a 4 year old to walk bare footed on freezing stone. That, to my mind, is actually cruel. The thing is, as an adult, you do know the consequences of their decisions, but they don't. It has somehow become popular to believe that it is kinder to allow a child to get really really cold (and I never force in mild weather) than to force appropriate clothing on. Would you let a child scald themselves rather than restrain them from touching a stove? Silly question but to me they are similar.

Where did I mention "single mothers"? I don't think I did.

Sorry, daft iPad! I was standing in the opposite doorway to the one he was going out of.

Oh, and actually Larry, I agree with you about the no letting them get soaking and old in order to teach a lesson about coats, when there won't be an opportunity to get them warm and dry straight away. I also agree there's a difference between a hit and a shove - if he'd hit me I'd have had no further contact and would he called the police.

That's the problem at the moment, it doesn't feel clear cut. He has been completely honest with his mum and friends (they've been calling to see how I am and I've asked what he's told them and it's been pretty much identical to my version of events). I do feel he really wants to change and he is giving me space when I want it, it's just that I also feel the need to communicate how I'm feeling and listen to his reactions.

Soaking and cold...

Merlot,

What would be your ideal resolution? A divorce, joint counselling, counselling just for him and a "trial" period? Ultimately, it is up to you. Do you think your husband is a decent parent or at least could be?

Has he reported himself to the GMC?

Just to clarify.

He shoved you through the doorway, into the next room, and onto the floor. Then told you it was your fault and you deserved it. Then denied saying you deserved it. (That is gaslighting).

These actions take sustained intent, and a degree of malice. It's more than a sudden burst of temper.

He also took 1.5 days to demonstrate any form of remorse.

Those are the facts.... and it's as bad as being hit, or worse. I'm sorry.

Moreover, very few, if any DV incidents are isolated incidents: they happen in a context of other aggression, as you have described. And it's the cause of the aggression that is the real problem.

But it's so hard to find a way to a solution when you are on the receiving end: and easy to minimise.

All you can do is seek help, and be honest with yourself, as you're doing.

I don't know Larry, I just don't know. I think I have a plan, then the kaleidoscope in my head turns again and I'm back to square one .

I do think he has it in him to be a good parent, and I hope that whatever happens between us, he is able to heal himself so that he can have a great relationship with DS.

I'm not sure a stated 'trial period' would help as we could easily get through 6 months or however long, then something happens to cause him stress and it all starts again - I can hardly ask for a 10 year trial period!

I think I have a plan, then the kaleidoscope in my head turns again and I'm back to square one .

This why you need some time and space away from him. So you can clear your head and decide what you want.

Everytime you meet or talk to him he is going to feed you tidbits about how he has changed and the part of you that loves and married this man is going to want to believe that and trust him.

If he is serious he will give you this rather than keep crowding you.

"I somehow bet you are not so brave when you are out"

Actually, I am. I've taken abusive mothers to task in the past, more than once. When someone crosses a line. Someone has to say something.

I was in a DV relationship, I wasn't as good a parent as I ought to have been at that time, but there were serious consequences for me and my child if Ex was disturbed. There are things I'm not proud of, but when you know better, you do better. I NEVER pinned my child down.

My ex was occasionally violent too. But most of the time it's when you push the boundary, don't back down and make a stand. Otherwise the threat alone of the consequences is enough.

Manhandling a child in the way you describe doing sounds traumatic, and as with ALL relationships, there is NO excuse for physical force.

You exert your will over someone smaller than you, with less knowledge of what's what and that's OK is it? As for anonymity, would you admit this stuff to those that know you? Aren't YOU hiding behind the internet to brag about manhandling a toddler?

I too have no idea what Single parents have to do with your post. Are you saying that if there were 2 of you, one would pin the child down while the other gets the coat on?

Nice.

There's ALWAYS another way Larry. I stand by everything I said.

There's a mismatch, isn't there? For me, the most shocking thing was the shove (closely followed by the 'gas lighting'), but for him, the most shocking thing, the thing that caused him to really look at this properly, was coming home to find that I'd moved out.

I'm not a complete doormat, I have tried to raise the issue of his stress, workaholic tendencies, over-involvement in his parent's happiness, lack of focus on DS and I before, and he brushed them off. It took coming home to a dark house empty of DS and my personal belongings, to make him realise the problems.

I don't ever want to go through this again and I simply can't put DS through this again, but at the same time, if he can genuinely be the man he says he wants to be, we could be really good together again.

Not only would I "admit" it, I would do it in front of everyone I know as they would do it in front of me. And it is funny that both my children ask for me to dress them. I am sure you will have some (bogus) reverse psychology explanation for this but the reality is that I am gentle but also firm and efficient. I explain why they need to be dressed, allow some (limited) negotiation about what they wear and then dress them. Children like to have boundaries drawn and luckily I have enough sensible rl support to confidently reject modernist bilge about a parent/child relationship being the same as an adult/adult relationship.

Frankly, given your admission of being a less than perfect parent yourself, I do not know where you get the arrogance to correct other "abusive" parents from. I am sure that you are a struggling parent's nightmare on what is probably already a stressful day. Children need real parents, not ideal parents.

Once again, I did not mention single parents! I think someone is a little over sensitive. I said every single mother where "every single" is a compound adjective, just a stronger version of "every". If I said every single person knows that, would you take it as prejudice against coupled?!

Honestly OP. Has he ever the been the man he says he wants to be? The past is the biggest indicator of what he will be like in the future.

Yes, exactly Merlot......He wasn't shocked by what he'd done. I think he was shocked that it mattered to you, and that you might publicly expose him. This is why it took so long to see the demonstration of remorse.

To clarify again, the cause of aggression in DV is not stress, but a sense of entitlement. The 3 circles diagram in Bancroft's book is very telling.

Merlot, the reason I suggested that you find an experienced "all round" Counsellor, as opposed to one who is solely DV orientated, is because I feel that what happened recently is just the tip of the iceberg, in your relationship. Horrendous though the incident was, DV isnt the entire issue here. You seem to be actually facing up to many other things that have caused you anxiety. The lack of interest in your son, the over interest in his parents. You mention a huge ego, and arrogance. All things which need to be looked at, in relation to how they affect you and your son, on a daily basis. You need time - lots of time - to process your entire relationship, with an expert. Obviously the recent horrendous episode, and its devastating effect causing you to leave, will be top of the list. I feel that yours and your H`s experiences with therapy should now be kept entirely separate, and not discussed with each other. Your H is/has been the cause of all your anxiety. He should not be the one that you are discussing it with, to try to find the way forward.

Merlot. You're right about the mis-match. It's almost like he is blind to the effect of his actions on you and DS but very alert to the implications for him if his DW has left.

I said it earlier. The power triangle was an eye-opener to me. I married a man who had a respectable position (think GP/solicitor thing) and who seemed to know all and sundry. Very amenable outdoors. Very solicitous to his parents, never having detached from them properly. Very generous in public. Indoors, I walked on egg-shells as he was 'under stress'.
I let it go further than you (take note Larry....its a continuum, that leads to bad places).

My STBXH will veer from admitting to all his errors almost to the point of crying to me, back to shouting and haranging me in front of our children.

If he can genuinely be the man he says he wants to be

That's the million pound question. Nothing you do will help to make that change or prevent him from making it. It is entirely his choice.
If he does have enough insight, and genuinely decides to change, it will be a hard road for him. He will fail on the way. He will have to pick himself up and start again.

The prize is that he gets to live fulltime with his DS and, more importantly, be an exemplary role model to him.

Just wanted to say that I'm reading all your posts and considering them and finding hem helpful. I'm also reading Lundy Bancroft and intermittently sobbing into my merlot!

I feel utterly wrung out and exhausted. Not just from the past few days but from the past few years. I feel deeply relieved that, whatever happens, my life need never be like that again.

marriedinwhite, I can remember times when he has been considerate and loving and pulled his weight, but they're interspersed by times of intense selfishness and egocentricity in the name of his career (never mind that I'm actually better qualified than him and managed to achieve all that without making a fuss and whilst supporting him!). It's been almost 5 years since he started studying for the last lot of exams and there hasn't been any let up since, if anything it got worse over time.

I think I want to give him an opportunity to put this right and I think he has it in him to do it. But I also need to give myself permission to walk away without guilt if I find at any point that he's slipping and won't correct it, or if I decide that he's not improving fast enough for DS's well being, or if I just find that I've had enough and can't get over any of this.

autumn, you're right. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm going to see the GP, but will probably access counselling through work as they're renowned for providing excellent counsellors.

Larry, as usual on threads where domestic violence is the issue, your posts are monumentally unhelpful.

'There is no excuse for being physical, ever, but ...'

Larrygrylls, You are nothing but a domestic violence apologist and your posts here are appalling.

Even for you, these posts here represent a new low.

Flathead, women walk on eggshells because they have been hit once or twice.

Trying to separate an occasional hit from living in fear is an exercise in futility, and worse, it is an exercise on your part of domestic violence denial.