You know you live with complete cnut when...

[kittybiscuits]

...you find out he just ordered a book called 'That Bitch: Protect Yourself Against Women with Mailicious Intent about 'is the small number of women with NO conscience who target innocent men and women with TOO MUCH conscience. These women see their victims as having a character flaw that is there to be exploited. The book explores the lying, cheating, conniving and manipulation of women with malicious intent. What are the everyday tricks of their tyrannical trade? How she claims to be the victim when she is the aggressor.'
I am so shocked. Have put up for years with his drinking, lies, passive aggressive nonsense, turning my teenager onto me and using her as his bully by proxy. I wish I had left him the first time he strayed. He has lied in couples therapy 'kitty I can't believe you're saying I used to drink every day - I never did that' NO, ONLY for 17 FUCKING YEARS! Grrrr. How will I ever get out of this shit situation, where he denies any role in it whatsoever, has lied to his family, my family, neighbours, friends. Plays the innocent everyday and constantly says I am paranoid. Anyone who has managed to extricate themselves from this kind of bastard, please advise.

How very toxic for you this must be. I don't know what to suggest apart from get out before you lose your mind. I'm still unfortunately married to one of these people - re-writing history to suit; to be honest I think they actually believe their bullshit.

Actually yes, I do know what to suggest: accept that this person is who he is, that he either can't help it or doesn't care, that it's not your fault nor your problem and that no matter what he says or does, you deserve better.

This is going to sound flippant, but it isn't supposed to.

Why can't you LTB?

You can't change him or get him to admit to anything. You can't change a counsellor or neighbours. All you can change is yourself... your response, your actions, your decisions. What you seem to be struggling with is finding a good enough reason to go that would satisfy family, friends and teenage DD? You don't actually have to justify why you're leaving to anyone but yourself and 'I've had enough' is a 100% legitimate reason.

So find yourself a really good family lawyer, get some advice and make a plan. Once you've crossed the initial mental bridge that you don't have to put up with it any long but are actually leaving, the rest will probably fall into place. Good luck

He's ordered that so he can quote from it and try to screw with you.

can you contact women's aid and ask them to help you leave?

I'm only surprised that you're still with him. I doubt very much he actually believes you are A Woman With Malicious Intent, but just look at all the ammo he's supplied himself with for the future!

Is there really any unresolvable reason why you're still with him?

And you're paranoid because he's made you that way- I'll be you don't know which way is up half the time do you? That's the aim of his game and it appears to be working. If he lies, let him. If he blames you, let him. You choose not to believe the fucker. I know it's hard...Christ I'm 2 years down the line of being 3000 miles away from mine and he still gets to me and still tries to play his games and sometimes it works for a while, but just get away from him. You simply cannot stay in this toxic waste dump that he keeps pulling you into.

Oooh loads of x-posting saying exactly the same

Kitty - just make a plan to leave. Believe that you deserve better, you have value, that this is not how normal relationships are and you will not only survive, but you will thrive without him. Good luck.

You didn't just find out that he was a cunt though did you?

You stay because something about this situation is preferable to the alternative and it's as simple as that.

Once you've worked out that any life is preferable to staying with this loser, you'll go.

But staying was never preferable for your daughter or any other children you had - and she or they had no choice.

Leave the bastard. Please.

Thanks for replies - totally appreciate your support. Sobbing here. I don't know why. I can have a decent life without him. A split know will probably split the children - 15 and 9. 15 is completely on his side. My 9 year old would probably go with her to stay with her sister. I will lose both my kids and I am the only person who has ever looked after them - done literally everything for them. He won't have any conversation about separating. Acts like I'm just be crazy and will not engage, will tell everyone what a victim he is and he didn't want this...he's tried so hard...etc etc etc.

I had to go for a scan 6 weeks ago - something I was told could be cancerous. He insisted on driving me there. He would want to be able to tell everyone what a good partner he is taking me to appointments. He has never asked me what the outcome was. (probably nothing sinister, but will need more tests, routine not urgent). He has NEVER mentioned it again. Is that insane?

Yes that is weird.

If you stay he will turn the 9 year old against you too.

If you go, you may loose them both, or you may not loose either - long term they are more than likely to see through him.

Are you married?

Not married. No debts, just mortgage. Have a good job and am main parent.

Then you really do need a solicitor to disentangle you. If you were married, of course, you could simply start divorce proceedings and wouldn't need his prior permission. In the case of a joint finances where you aren't married you will need legal help. Be prepared that it may have to be messy ... forced house-sale, for example ... rather depends on how intolerable the living situation is as to what lengths you are prepared to go to get him out of your life.

And on the subject of children, I think you're being pessimistic that you will lose them both. I realise teens can be quite hard-hearted but 50/50 parenting for younger children is usually the aim. So don't make too many assumptions there.

Can I ask if you have 2 DCs including one well into their teens, why you aren't married?

Neither of us was bothered about getting married. And when we did discuss I said I wouldn't marry him until he sought help for his alcoholism. Which he denied.

I want to leave. I asked him to leave earlier this year. He said I had taken everything from him, kids and house. Am thinking of taking half the equity and going. Does that sound sensible?

Do you really think he'll want to have them full time if he hasn't cared for them so far?

And I suspect they will soon see through him.

I've no idea if half the equity is reasonable but, if that what you think he has contributed, then it sounds good. But if he's clinging hold of the metaphorical door-frames and you can't get him to leave voluntarily, you're going to need to approach things differently, get professional advice and force his hand. Might even involve a few dirty tricks to get the ball rolling.

Ah OK. Was just checking that it wasn't that he'd made lots of excuses not to - many guys still seem to believe that if they aren't married then you have no rights.

As Lueji says, they (or at least the eldest) may initially want to go with their father but when he fails to provide dinner or expects DD1 to cook for him, expects them to do all the washing, in fact do everything that you used to do, they may well change their minds

He won't want them full time, definitely not. But my teen will want to go with him, and also cannot live with me if she wants to continue to treat me like shit. I guess there will be some drama, and in the end maybe, who knows. Adult separation is not enough for him. He has to tell everyone it wasn't h that wanted it and that he's lost everything because of me.

'Everyone' should have the good sense to realise that there are two sides to every story... and also to be very suspicious of someone blaming their ex for all their woes. Sad fact is that some of your friends/family will blame you and some won't. Most divorces/separations end up with you losing touch with a few peripheral people that you're probably better off without anyway. But that's the price you pay for getting a monkey off your back.

Keep your phone in your pocket and record the bastard. Then post it on YouTube and email everyone a link.

I could be wrong but I suspect that if your teen treats you like shit, it is behaviour she has learned from watching her father treat you like shit, and you putting up with it.

Personally, I think that the greatest example you could be to her now is to stop putting up with it and demand some respect for yourself.

This is hard to do, but when you've done it you will wonder why you didn't do it earlier: if he wants to tell everyone that he's lost everything because of you, and it's all your fault, and play the victim ... just let him. Just accept that that is what he is going to do, and then don't allow it to affect your plans. You have spent years trying to reason with this man and trying to make things better and 'right' and it's a hard habit to break. But ask yourself, if he tells everyone it's all your fault ... so what? I mean, REALLY, so what? Who cares what anyone else thinks anyway? You know the truth. And I'll be very surprised if 'everyone' believes him anyone. Often men like this are more transparent than you (and they) realise.

You cannot control or change what he does. If he is intent on being the eternal victim and taking no responsibility - just let him. Turn your back on it and metaphorically shut your ears to it. Do not let it stop you from leaving. That is what it is designed to do.

Because you know what the great thing about leaving is? His constant moaning and blaming and slagging you off won't be your problem any more. That's the POINT.