Terrible guilt after escape from bad marriage; please tell me it will pass

[tiredofwaitingforitalltochange]

Separated recently after 15 years together, 13 married, dd 12 and 10.

After an awful year (four property transactions, none straightforward, months under the same roof after deciding to separate, recession-linked money worries blah blah) dh and I are now living in our own houses bought from proceeds of fh.

I am so, so much happier since we separated. I've reclaimed my relationship with my kids after years of feeling marginalised thanks to his micro-management of their lives and a demanding Uni course I am doing. They seem happier without tension at home. My elder one has been really loving and cuddly lately.

I have a lovely house that is completely 'me' - big, old and rambling - and I've put my heart and soul into making it beautiful.

I've got some cash to get me through until I qualify as a doctor in 2014 and until I start earning decent money which will be a few years later (despite what the Daily Mail says, doctors earn relatively shit money, I've met top cardiac surgeons who are on less than 90K after 18 years of training, compare that with wankers bankers). It's going to be tight, but I can do it.

But I feel so, so guilty about dh and it's killing me and ruining my new life.

He's bought a nasty little modern house and I feel awful about it (though I've gifted him our second home - it's a dream cottage - and we've divided our assets in a normal way).

His business is suffering really badly in the recession and professionally his future is very uncertain.

I'm not exactly a spring chicken (41) but he's 14 years older and I feel awful leaving him high and dry at this stage in his life.

Our kids are going to be with him every other w/end and 2 nights during the week, so close to 50:50 but I still feel really awful about it, that they won't always be there for him.

FWIW he was a classic EA. I realised this after coming on MN, in my misery. I stuck it out for years.

I'm feeling terrible because I haven't had a single Xmas card from his big family. They think I'm the villain and I am so not. I'm doing Christmas at my house and my parents/brother are coming and I've invited dh too, so he doesn't miss Xmas day with the girls. My family have been lovely to him.

As I said I feel so so much happier. It would be great if it weren't for the guilt. Please someone who's been here tell me it's going to get better :(

The guilt isn't about that, though. I just feel really sorry for him. He messed things up, I think he knows it really though he won't admit it, and he is really unhappy.

tired I can also say it does get better. It took me a long time but I did get there.

Couldn't not post!
He's done such a number on you... he purposely tried to make you miserable for years and now you feel sorry for him :(. Please stop feeling guilty, you know he's a manipulative twat and you know you've been conditioned by your narc mum to view it this way..... Stop! x
He's doing it to the dc too...good example being the woe is me house thing with them that again he would have done on purpose. What loving parent tries to worry their children like that....narcissistic twats that's who..

So stop protecting him, stop feeling bad for him, enjoy your lovely rambling house and huge congrats on the doctor thing...how amazing is that :) x

Seeing him struggling and failing to make a nice home for himself must be a mixed feeling. On the one hand he let you do the hard work in the house you shared and it was never good enough for him. So let him try and do it better! And see how hard it is.
On the other hand you have invested so many years in his comfort and wellbeing and your children have to spend time there so you want it to be a nice place.
I think the answer is to detach and to tell yourself it is none of your business! At first I was horrified when he didnt put the bins out for a month and the house was a mess. Now I just laugh that it takes a gardener and a housekeeper to replace me! But his house does look nice now which is a good thing.

Thanks babyhammock and Lemon.

he didnt put the bins out for a month

It's not just leaving. I feel guilty because I wasn't very nice to him for the last two or three years. He did try to change his behaviour, but it was too late and he only did this when I said I wanted a divorce. I had to leave because even though he changed his behaviour a lot I knew he was full of anger with me underneath. He's jealous of my relationship with the children as well.

But I haven't been very nice to him - I was so unhappy by then - and he put up with a lot out of wanting to keep the marriage going (or more accurately keep the family unit together). He seemed to be able to tolerate not being friends, not having a physical relationship but I couldn't. It all felt so wrong and I was worried it was bad for the children. And I hated myself.

I used to be in awe of people who'd left. If I heard about someone getting divorced I felt envious. I can't believe I've actually done it but it's not enjoyable yet.

Maybe it will get better when he finds someone else. I feel this is likely. He's not unattractive and he has almost never been on his own.

I think detaching is definitely the way forward. He may well be depressed - but he also has a loving supportive family and surely they will prop him up and advise him on getting help.

My XH is also doing the woe is me thing, and purposely does things badly so he can shrug and say "but I'm only a man and my wife abandoned me", but I block it all as much as I can. Not always easy, but worth persevering with for your own sanity.

And I know your worrying about what other people are thinking or saying seems to be a side issue here, but it's still a huge drain on your energy levels. Remember, people will judge you whatever you do, so you may as well do what you like. And it's none of their damn business anyway, none of those people were in your marriage.

Oh and my XH is also hotly pursuing a replacement wife - new wardrobe, whole new gym, new interests! The sooner it happens, the better. (And if it doesn't happen soon, I guess he'll get a gardener and cleaner instead ;) )

Lol at your last post, silver. I love MN, I know that without it I would still be with dh, still screwing up the kids, still feeling on edge the whole time in my own home.

I feel guilty because I wasn't very nice to him for the last two or three years. He did try to change his behaviour, but it was too late and he only did this when I said I wanted a divorce. I had to leave because even though he changed his behaviour a lot I knew he was full of anger with me underneath. He's jealous of my relationship with the children as well.

So he didn't change, he just put on a rather crap facard . So what were you supposed to do, that must have been torture esp given everything he'd done.
And don't wish him on someone else because he will be exactly the same. The world starts and ends at his feet and he is incapable of ever putting someone else first ..unless it ultimately benefits him.

Also you're judging his 'suffering' by your own standards of what makes someone unhappy because you have loads of empathy. He doesn't and isn't the same as you so hold your head up and screw what anyone else thinks ..they don't have a clue xx

Wait, wait, let's work out the finances here - if I rightly understand, he got the cottage and then you divided what was left, what, equally? Or did you get a much bigger share? You've bought a lovely, big, old, rambling house (sounds splendid btw!), you've made it beautiful and you have some cash to live on until you qualify in a couple of years. XH's business may be suffering but does he still draw an income from it?

Basically, what I'm getting at is did you leave him no choice but to buy a nasty little house or was this his choice? And, um, what's stopping him tidying it?

Annie will try to explain...

Cottage was bought years ago when I was working and is in my name. We thought at the beginning we would carry on sharing it.

But I needed a bigger house (without au pair I can't do my course) so I said he should have the cottage and he was pleased. I bought a big house leaving him with a smaller budget from fh sale but he gets the cottage; there's a small mortgage on it.

So we now have property worth the same and he also gave me a lump sum in lieu of spousal maintenance which I will have to spin out until I earn. I'm not going to make any claim on his pension or future earnings, I want to support myself.

He's giving me nominal maintenance for the children (but hasn't actually given me any yet and I've been living here for two months). He says he will though. And right now I am still paying bills etc for the cottage, so that's £500 a month which is coming out of my capital. He says he is going to take them over. I know I need to push him on this because I can't afford to haemorrhage cash in this way.

We haven't got any lawyers, we've agreed it all ourselves. He couldn't move the goalposts without making me and dc homeless and he never would.

He is drawing an income from work but he couldn't pay himself for two months in the autumn because of cashflow problems. The company has debts. There's wealth in his family though and they would help him if needs be, though he would hate this.

My house is a big town house on lots of floors. But it's on a busy road with a tyre/exhaust place opposite, so not everyone would think it's as lovely as I do haha :)

So he kind of did choose to buy a smaller house, because he could sell the cottage if he preferred.

He could also have bought a nicer (small) house than he did on his budget. He hates it and I think he's been a fool to buy a house he hates. Our fh was a lovely house in a great location, so he must feel he's really come down in the world. But we are in a better position than lots of separating couples; I keep telling him this. I don't think I've shafted him

Hopefully now the dc are staying there it will motivate him to sort it all out and make it nicer.

I asked him if he planned to do any decorating and he acted like it was a really unreasonable question when he's 'got so much else to sort out', pointing at the boxes.

But I had to sort my house on my own! I shopped around and found some good but cheap removers (and then he used them!) I've hunted for cheap, secondhand but good quality appliances on eBay (I got a Miele washing machine in great condition for £60!) while he's just bought a really pricey big telly from John Lewis.

And like I said, I've done my decorating without help - four big rooms and three smaller ones in three months and I don't just slap the paint on, I fill the holes, sand the woodwork and wash the walls... it's been knackering.

I think he's being a bit self indulgent when I read all that.

I'm feeling less guilty than I was when I started the thread. It's moving out of longstanding bad habits (feeling guilty about everything, feeling like everything is all my fault) that's really hard.

My house looks great because I've spent hours painting it , planning it and filling it with nice things that I've bought on the cheap, done up etc. And I think I'm just dreading having him here for Christmas, looking at the home I've made and hating me for it :( I know he thinks I don't deserve it and so does my mum. I feel awful about it, I still waste so much energy worrying about what he is thinking.

Sorry so long, but you did ask!

Hey there,

I'm sorry your feeling so down about it. Of course you still care - if you didn't it would also be wrong. However he's not your responsibility and you need to dissociate and focus on the positive.

Ignore the negative posts - they are irrelevant and nasty.

I empathise completely. You are not the villain. It was an unhappy marriage that has ended and hopefully both of you will eventually find happiness elsewhere. You stuck with it for a long time and did your best. His family should recognise that. Don't take it personally though, they are most likely in a a quandary as to how to define their relationship with you. Give it time.

Stay strong
Sx

I'm glad you just posted that last message tired, because I think you now see his behaviour for what it is - self-indulgent and designed to make you feel bad. Please try not to let him win on that front any longer. He's too used to having some control over you, and he's hanging on to the last threads of that.

I totally recognise the lack of decorating etc - my XH has moved to a house his parents own, he has bought the bare minimum of furniture for the kids rooms even though his folks would have no problem with him redecorating or doing anything which would improve the property long term. He's bought all this new gym equipment (having barely graced the inside of a gym ever) yet he can't buy a 2nd hand Xbox or TV for when the kids are over, so he has to borrow our 2nd tv and Xbox every time he has the kids to stay. And he never plugs the bloody thing back in when he returns it. Minor. But something he knows will cause ill feeling from both me and D'S. Grrr.

Are all men like this? Did we make them like this? Or even just allow them to become like this? Did they grow up and then regress again? Sorry to vent on your thread!

PS both your H and Mother know fine that you deserve your lovely house and a sparkling future - they are simply jealous.....

Vent all you like. How incredibly annoying about the TV and the Xbox. Maybe tell him that he must stop doing this in the New Year. The kids need to feel like it's a home for them and he's hardly encouraging that by borrowing your stuff.

At least my dh has bought his own telly. He's made sure it's bigger than mine as well :)

I think he has done damned well out of you OP. Why feel guilty? You aren't claiming continuing maintenance (though you are still a student), or a share of his pension. He got a much younger woman for years, who helped buy him one of the houses he is left with, and 2 children.

If he couldn't hold onto all of that, then more fool him. He has to be responsible for his own behaviour.

I think its telling that his family cast you as the villain - thats the sort of attitude that probably helped produce this spoilt man-child. You have a brilliant future ahead of you (and I agree 90k, eventually, for a doctor compared to some of the overpaid salaries in less valuable jobs is completely out of kilter).

"So he kind of did choose to buy a smaller house, because he could sell the cottage if he preferred. He could also have bought a nicer (small) house than he did on his budget."

Pretty much what I thought, then! No, you haven't shafted him. He's chosen to handle it this way (and btw although you seem to have done marginally better perhaps on paper, the fact that you're still paying bills on the cottage and he isn't paying any maintenance yet means you'll very soon be the one who's done worse out of it).

"I've hunted for cheap, secondhand but good quality appliances on eBay... while he's just bought a really pricey big telly"

Why am I not surprised!

Why should he decorate/not have a big telly?

The man has lost his family and his home and sounds as though he may be on he way to loosing his business too. He has enough to worry about without a student (who, even in medicine, will likely have a lot more free time/less stress, espec. as there is an au pair to look after the kids) looking down on him for not doing a spot of painting.

If the telly makes him feel good the way redecorating makes the OP feel good, well, good luck to him.

I think the point is, Ginger, that the OP was hoping he might try to create a home where his children are happy to go and stay with him for his agreed contact time.

Don't think it would be particularly stress-free being a single parent and student of medicine at the same time either....

Nobody said he had to decorate his house. We're just pointing out to the OP that she doesn't have to feel guilty because he hasn't. They have split up and she is no longer responsible for making his life nice for him. (We'll leave out the fact that they only split because he treated her like a malfunctioning domestic appliance; you wouldn't necessarily know that, and it doesn't affect relative entitlements to marital assets anyway.)

silver, Annie - I did post earlier in the thread about the guilt thing, I know it is hard to be the one to end it!

Just don't see decorating as especially necessary for a happy family (unless it bothers whoever is living there as it obviously would OP).

I see your point Ginger. I know my own DCs are not happy to go to their dad's house at the moment though, because it "smells of the last people who were in it" and it's just really unhomely. Just feels like ExH is saying "look at how awful this is, none of it is my fault, your mum made me move out" when he really shouldn't be letting our DCs be affected by any of it.

Ps Santa brought a second hand Xbox, so at least that's something.....

The guilt will go, this is strange comparison, I felt a bit guilty, as I am not an abuser so I am allowed my DC, X isn't he lives in drug-world, with drug people, in a druggie house, with no TV, internet or phone, not my fault though, we all make choices, some people make the wrong choice, your ex chose to EA you, he could have chose not to.

Do not feel guilty, easier said than done but it will go I promise!

a student (who, even in medicine, will likely have a lot more free time/less stress

Totally fucking clueless!! What a joke. I'm guessing you didn't go to Uni, Ginger. Because if you did, you'd remember the medics, those poor souls who spent most of their lives stuck in the library.

I'm doing clinical training now; I'm in my fourth year. It's a minimum one hour commute to work, depending on where I'm placed. If I'm lucky, I have a 9 am start at the hospital, if I'm less lucky, it's earlier. Sometimes I have a week where I get up at 5.45 every day. Usually it's 6.45. I feed the dog and kiss the kids goodbye. I usually finish at the hospital by 5 but sometimes it's 6. I get home at 6.30/7. It's a full time job, ffs!! And there are occasional nights. I'm about to start obstetrics which means I will have to stay until whenever it takes to watch deliveries and deliver some babies myself - which don't come along 9-5.

It's very stressful and very tough. When you first go on the wards you haven't a clue, feel like a spare part and everyone, from the consultants to the nurses, treats you like the idiot you know you are. You are surrounded by very sick people and some of them die.

Pre-clinical wasn't exactly a breeze anyway. I had to do science A levels before I started my course. Doing medicine I estimate the amount I had to learn in pre-clinical was equivalent to an A level syllabus about every three or four weeks.

And using 'student' as if it's an insult! Like students are lazy, dope-smoking wasters who go along to the occasional lecture.

I didn't mention the exams, did I? I did my first degree at Oxford and Finals there were hideous (three years' work examined in 8 exams over 5 days) but medical school exams are worse, more stressful even than that terrible experience. I packed in about 400 hours' revision for my second year exams at medical school (and you'd have to as well, if you'd been expected to know as much neuroscience, anatomy, endocrinology, physiology etc as I was).

And if you fail the exams, you have to repeat the year, at huge financial and personal cost, just to make it even more terrifying.

I'm not complaining, I love what I am doing and feel very privileged, but please don't imagine there is anything easy/non stressful about it.

I'm not some waster, I am bettering myself, putting myself in a position where I will be financially independent, and I hope, making a difference to my patients.

And I'm a good mum and I have a house to run. An au pair helps, for sure, but a 19 year old who does the ironing and cooks tea for the kids doesn't make that much difference! You fucking try it.

I'm not looking down on my husband for not decorating. But I do think he should be trying to make his home pleasant for himself and the children.

How big his telly is isn't the issue, you need to reread and put what I said into context.

Seriously you need to disengage from him. You shouldn't know what sort of telly he bought or ow much it cost or what colour his walls are.

Your children might tell you some of that stuff but you just need to "mmm, hmmm, really sweetie?" when they start and not waste any emotional resources on it.

Your life is full enough. Stop taking on his crap.

tired I've been so interested to read about what you're going through. I'm sorry you're feeling such guilt over the situation-- obviously he needs to accept that things have changed, and move on and he isn't going to make it easy for you by doing that with good grace. Too bad he doesn't feel inclined to consider how it may be affecting the kids if he wants to make them stay in a house that he himself says isn't nice, with a 'poor me' attitude and claiming that he is powerless to do anything about it. I know my DH would be exactly the same and probably invent some illness or depression (I haven't got near to leaving him (yet) as I am too much of a coward, that's another story)

But don't you think somehow that it is this caring, giving nature that we (making assumptions here!) tend to have often gets us into this position in the first place, of accepting that we put ourselves and our own needs and happiness after others? Imagine if the situation were reversed a bit and he was doing OK-- if he had a nice house and a career that was going well. Pure conjecture here but you'd probably feel really happy for him, so why shouldn't you expect the same from him? Whatever he is saying to his family, he needs to take responsibility for his own situation. It's just a shame that, as you had to make the move, you are cast as the 'bad guy'.

It seems that you've done a fantastic thing for yourself by getting out, re-training as a doctor (my sister did the same thing, aged 40, now fully qualified and doing so well and so glad she had the courage to follow her convictions) and your house sounds fabulous and your children no doubt feel part of the warmth and love you've put into it-- your ex is probably v jealous to see you achieving all that without his input. So naturally he does what he can to manipulate you into feeling guilty, he had years of practice. Don't let it derail you.