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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Having concerns

36 replies

nowbringussomefiggypudding · 19/12/2012 11:41

If I am bu it may be because this is in the wrong place. Please advise if there's a better topic for it to go on.

I am concerned at a few things my 3 year old has said to me and attributed to my father. He came in the other day and asked me - "do you like women?". I actually didn't hear him properly, and I didn't know he really knew that word, so I got him to repeat a few times. I said of course I did, and that I was a woman. "No you're not" he replied. Then he said "There are white women and there are black women. White women are nice. Black women are naughty". I was totally shocked, so asked why on earth black women were naughty and who told him that. He said that black women hurt little girls and boys and his grandad had told him.

Cue mind into overdrive, and I've been overanalysing a lot of things. For example last time my parents were here, my son asked me to touch his willy. I said "no, that's private for you". So he said he'd touch mine, when I had to explain I didn't have one. And a few other things he'd said, which I wouldn't think twice about normally - like comment about sticky willies that have to be wiped off.

Also, when he asked about Santa and I told him he was secret, my son piped up "oh, secret like me", then clammed up when I asked what he meant.

I've been analysing lots of things from my childhood. I've had a troubled time and done some stupid things in my life, and lots of times its been suggested I was abused - but I cannot remember anything of the sort, and always denied it. I am wondering now if my awful self-destructive behaviour does spring from some abuse that was in pre-verbal or pre-memory times.

Of course, its my son I am worried about. I don't want anything to sully him. I'm so frightened and its badly affected my relationship with my parents as I don't want to see them as my dad always manages to get my son alone to spend some quality time, and it would be quite hard to prevent this. Having it out with my dad isn't really an option. I've mentioned it to mum, but she has been totally disbelieving.

I feel so bad for writing this, but have obviously name changed. I just want to protect my boy. What would you all do?

OP posts:
SantasHugandRollintheSnow · 19/12/2012 11:44

Yanbu to have concerns, I would too. I would be talking to someone about this, dr, childline maybe. I would certainly want another more profrssional opinion of what to do next.

Original poster
nowbringussomefiggypudding · 19/12/2012 11:45

Forgot to say, I did call the nspcc and they said that although its unlikely my son is lying about the conversation, he may have misinterpreted. That there's no point interrogating a 3 year old as its traumatic for them.

OP posts:
SassySask · 19/12/2012 11:46

See if you can get your son to open up more? Or have it out with the grandfather and stop him going to see him. What he is saying is very worrying, especially the sexual comments "sticky willies"!!
As hard as it'll be, you have to get it sorted. Imagine if he started saying these things in public and someone takes it upon themselves to contact SS?
I really really hope you gain the strength to confront your father before things escalate! Do you have a partner? What does he think?

FireOverBethlehem · 19/12/2012 11:50

If it was me, not let your DS be alone with your dad at all, even if it means you have to meet your parents at parks etc.

The racist comments would be enough for me - they could get your son into trouble at school with other pupils without knowing what he's saying.

The sticky willy thing and your DS being a secret urggh.

you have alarm bells going for a reason, act on them. And your mum would be totally unbelieving if, as you suspect, abuse happened to her children and she did nothing to prevent it.

Anniegetyourgun · 19/12/2012 11:54

Even without the possibility of abuse, the things he seems to be learning from his grandad, eg about women, are pretty shocking. Would confronting your father really help though? Surely he'd just deny it and you'd be no wiser. Best to keep them apart, or just meet in public places and refuse to allow this "quality time" business, at least until DS is old enough to tell you properly if anything untoward was going on. Now you are a parent yourself you can say no to your own parents, you know - and by the sound of it you definitely should.

YourHandInMyHand · 19/12/2012 11:54

Sad That all sounds very concerning.

Do you have a HV or nice GP you could talk to for advice? Do not let your DS be alone with him again, even if it means causing an argument.

OhMyGlob · 19/12/2012 12:01

I know he is only 3. But I would probably ask him. Do some painting or something together, something he is concentrating
On so he is off guard. And then just ask him if he's ever seen grandads willy? Ask him if grandad has touched his. Make it as lighthearted as you can.

I have 4 DC and non of them has ever said anything of this sort. I have a child in the family that was abused. We found out as soon as she mentioned her abuser had 'wet stuff' come out of his willy.
We believed her and called the police. It was proved she was being abused.

Don't let your son be alone with them.

OhMyGlob · 19/12/2012 12:04

Forgot to add, it doesn't have to be an interrogation.

By being open an honest with him, you are teaching him its ok to be open and honest with you. By being afraid of the subject he might have picked up how nervous you are of it.

Just do it in a chatty, normal way.

squeakytoy · 19/12/2012 12:09

Why does your father need to spend "quality time" alone with your son. He doesnt need to, and you dont have to allow it either.

apostrophethesnowman · 19/12/2012 12:11

YANBU to be worried. I think you ought to seek professional help to find out what, if anything, is going on. The racist comments alone would be enough to worry me. It's also not good about the secrets.

Do you realise, though, that "sticky willies" are little plant-type things that stick to your clothing and have to be kind of brushed off. Perhaps he's genuinely talking about them, rather than something much worse. Just a thought.

NolittleBuddahsorTigerMomshere · 19/12/2012 12:19

CALL THE POLICE! This is not normal stuff for such a little child to be saying, and if there are other little children your father may come into contact with, they could be in danger. IIWM, I just would not be able to forgive myself. If your father has done nothing wrong, he shouldn't have a problem with you taking this course of action, tbh if he has done nothing he should be pleased that his GS is being so well taken care of. Moreover, the police will not investigate something that they believe is not a problem, so their reaction will give you guidance. Also they will know/ have specialist therapists who can speak to your son.

I am so sorry you are in this situation OP Sad

CheungFun · 19/12/2012 12:23

I think I too would be concerned. I'm really not sure what you should do next though :( I think I would take the other posters advice and talk to a nice HV or GP as I don't think the advice from the NSPCC provided anything constructive or ways to manage this.

My DM said she used to tell me and my DB when we were little "you must always tell me the truth", "even if you promised to keep a secret, you are allowed to tell me", "you will not get into trouble for telling the truth". I think if you phrased it right a 3 year old would be able to understand?

I don't think you can ever be too careful where your children are concerned.

FridgeBenefits · 19/12/2012 12:24

Don't quiz him about it. At that age, simple questions can plant a false memory.
I would not let him spend any time at all with your father, and I would go and talk to your GP about your concerns, but please, please, don't talk to your ds about it unless advised to by a professional.

WeAreEternal · 19/12/2012 12:28

There could be compleatly reasonable explanations for everything, it could also all just be your son misinterpreting what he has been told.

However due to personal experience I would never ignore these kind of suspicions.

A good friend of mine found out a few years ago that she and her sister had been brutally sexually abused by her uncle and a friend of his from very young to around the age of 5.
They had absoloutly no memory of the abuse. They only found out a few years ago because the uncle died and upon clearing out his house a relative found a extensive collection of pictures videos and diaries that fully documented everything he and his friend had done to them.
She says looking back a lot of strange behaviour and things that she believed as a child now make a lot of sense, but she still has no memory of the abuse.

BigGiantCowWithAKnockKnockTail · 19/12/2012 12:29

I agree with everyone who is recommending you seek professional advice. Have you considered using dolls when talking to him and pretending they're different people he knows and just see what comes out?

FridgeBenefits · 19/12/2012 12:34

I really would be very wary of trying to extract information from him.

ilovesparklythings · 19/12/2012 12:38

How awful for you. I've got young kids and cant imagine what that must be like.

Can I suggest that you dont ask him directly but you ask things like - "what did you do last time you saw Granddad" etc.. if you ask him outright you might be planting ideas into his head that then become mixed with the truth.

I'm a childminder and have done a course on abuse etc. You've got to let him tell you, in his words, and write it down. Bring it up whilst he's feeling safe with you, but dont ask leading questions. That way at least you'll know that everything he's told you has come from somewhere/one else rather than you saying "did grandad touch you" etc etc

Hope you get some answers and it all turns out to be a misunderstanding. But I suspect there is something behind it Sad

Original poster
nowbringussomefiggypudding · 19/12/2012 13:30

I will try to stop the alone time, its gone on because they live 100s of miles away and I have to visit for a few days at least and sleep there, so its very tricky as I have other children too to be by him all the time....

OP posts:
PinkSnow · 19/12/2012 13:38

If that was my son and i had a real concern such as yours im sorry but I will try just isn't good enough. Dont let your son be alone with him. I appreciate that could make life difficult but you would never forgive yourself if anything was going on. Good luck.

bonzo77 · 19/12/2012 13:44

I would be concerned. Keep them within your sights when they are together. Now, I know nothing about this, but I think you need to get professional advice. Today. Not sure from who, probably the police. I also think that you need to not raise this with your son at all. As a previous poster suggested, any sort of conversation could plant false memories that make later evidence acquired at interview unreliable. If your son mentions something, listen, write it down or record it, but don't comment or ask questions about it. If he seems distressed maybe just cuddles rather than soothing comments. This sounds like a truly horrible situation to be in.

Original poster
nowbringussomefiggypudding · 19/12/2012 13:44

I understand pinksnow. Since it came out I have avoided seeing them at all. Its hard as he gets up at 5:30am and goes to bed at 7. I'm going to have to be super prepared as I'm on my own too.

OP posts:
PinkSnow · 19/12/2012 13:49

Sounds like you are going through a really tough time. I am a mental health nurse and bonzo is right. Be careful with what you say to your son as you dont want to plant false memories. Also be careful not to create false memories of your own (I read in your opening post you were over analysing your own childhood) Please seek professional help.

IsaXMASbelleRinging · 19/12/2012 13:59

Grandads don't usually spend 'quality time' alone with their grandsons.

Original poster
nowbringussomefiggypudding · 19/12/2012 14:02

Reading them bedtime stories etc is unusual?

OP posts:
NolittleBuddahsorTigerMomshere · 19/12/2012 14:08

nowbringussomefiggypudding it's not unusual for Gfs to do the things you describe and call it quality time, but I have to agree with Isa that in the context of Op's post, 'quality time' (in single inverted commas) has very sinister overtones.