Please help. I need some relationship advice.

[NoBrainsAtAll]

I think I have come to the end of the road with my DP. I don't think I love him anymore, I don't think I even care.

There has been no burning platform, not one LTB moment but I find it hard to live with him.

I'm sure I'm difficult to live with too but I have suggested he leaves if things are that bad. As he hasn't, I think I need to take that step. But I have two young children and another one on the way so leaving will be a huge upheaval for us all.

Where do I start?

Have you gone through all the usual routes to resolve differences? Can you talk about the problems honestly & openly or does it always descend into bickering? Do you make an effort for each other or has everyone stopped bothering? Is your relationship founded on equality & respect or is there a 'taking for granted', 'ground down by daily life' feeling that is leading to resentment? What first attracted you to your DP (and vice versa) and why do you think that's fallen by the wayside?

Finally.... do you ever spend time apart or are you thrown together 24/7?

Hi Cogito, thanks for your post. I have name changed as DP knows my user name but I'm a plurker and 'recognise' you.

We haven't tried counselling, I can't be bothered. I know how awful that sounds, I'm trying to be honest. DP is a 'nice guy' and I'm afraid the counsellor with think he's better off without me. Plus he'll say all the right things and then return to his default settings.

Anyway we've tried talking and changing but we then come full circle and fall out about the same things. Each time it happens I feel like another piece has been chipped off me and I don't know how much more I can take in order to preserve myself.

I have definitely stopped bothering. I think he takes me for granted. I am definitely ground down by daily life. We don't do much apart but he is at work Mon-Fri so we see each other in the evenings and at the weekends.

It's not awful to say you can't be bothered with counselling, it's simply being honest and acknowledging the truth. If it's over, it's over.

However, could you entertain a trial separation? Normal work weeks are nothing like actual independence from each other and I think sometimes that's what couples genuinely need. A proper break to think and experience life apart, call a halt to all those tram-line arguments that come full circle and always end up the same way, the opportunity to relax and reflect. Sometimes you come away from it feeling refreshed and feeling willing to try again. Sometimes it's a bit of a kick in the pants to change behaviour. Sometimes it's the convincer that life solo actually would be better than life together.

If it's over, it's over. I think it is but the reality scares me. Not so much the getting over the relationship, I think I've done some of that already. But the practicality of living on my own with nearly three children.

I would consider a trial separation but in that instance I think he should go and the disruption to the children, and school etc, for what may be a short period of time isn't fair.

Also, if I went and took the children we'd have to rent somewhere whereas DP could stay with his parents.

I don't really want PILs to know (mil is nosy enough as it is) but that option seems to be preferable to just living together and me pretending we're not. And him pretending everything is ok!

If the reality scares you, check out the reality. Most things are scary when you don't know the full ins and outs. Information tends to make them less scary I find. Then again, if your biggest objection is disrupting the school run or inconveniencing the children I'd have to ask whether the relationship is really all that bad.

It's really good to get an external view. I haven't talked about this with anybody in RL and I internalise a lot of my thoughts which can sometimes give them a life of their own.

So, if I left for a trial separation and I rented somewhere with the children which meant DS1 couldn't go to his normal school for example. Is that not potentially damaging to them? I thought keeping their normal routine as much as possible would be better.

What if we then decided to reconcile, wouldn't it be a shame that the DC has gone through the disruption?

And if it confirmed our decision to split permanently and then I moved again isn't that a bit crap for the little ones?

I find it really interesting that you ask whether the relationship is that bad. I think my problem is I don't know. As I mentioned orginally there is no specific incident or burning platform. I know I'm lucky in that respect. But my situation is various shades of grey rather than a clear cut, this is untenable.

How do I know?

Re a trial separation... Yes, ideally you keep the children at the same school and the more mobile parent (usually Dad) moves out somewhere for a while. This is relatively easy to explain to children and works best if you do it together. If you get together then you explain that as well..... children IME are very up to speed with the whole idea of 'falling out' and 'being friends again' because that's exactly how they interact. If the split becomes permanent and finances or similar dictate that you'll be moving house/school you cross that bridge same as you would if you moved for your job or other reason. Children can be very flexible if given the information and kept in the loop.

I don't know if your relationship is bad enough to end. All relationships work in shades of grey... few are all bad or all good. But if the reasons keeping you back are relatively trivial or easily overcome then the desire to leave is clearly not that strong. If your relationship was truly intolerable you wouldn't let anything get between you and the front door...

I'm in the same situation, could almost have written your post except I have 3 children already. My DP is hard working, kind but just has no aspirations. We've been together 10 years (today) and he's forgotten as I knew he would. The past 3 years haven't been happy, he's had an emotional affair with a colleague that we were working through. We had a session at relate but never done anything else about it. He doesnt talk and I just can be arsed anymore.

I've decided to make an appointment with my local citizens advice to sort out finances and find out if I'd be entitled to any help. I want to stay in the house, I don't have family nearby- he does. I've no idea whether I'll be able to continue working or afford to live but it'll give me the power to make the next move.....

I think my desire to leave is strong but in many different situations I present myself with 'what ifs' which leads to much procrastination.

I'm also aware that if I am going to leave that will impact hugely on the children so I want to feel certain it is the best decision before I act.

I feel more comfortable talking to the children about a permanent separation rather than a trial. And I would find it much easier to explain to them why Daddy isn't living with us for a while and when they will see him, rather than us moving to a new house knowing it is inly a temporary measure.

I need to examine the comments you posted about reasons keeping me back. Perhaps they are relatively trivial but to me, cumulatively, they are making me unhappy. And whether they are easily overcome, well we haven't managed to overcome them. And this isn't a new situation but a recurring one. I feel exhausted at the prospect of trying, changing etc. I just want it to go away.

The intolerable piece is my struggle. After reading many threads on the relationships board I can't understand how much some people take and the sadness at what some people experience. In that respect I am lucky but for me it makes the decision to leave more difficult. I am asking myself the same questions you are asking. Is it really that bad? Is there a way forward for the relationship?

xmasrobin thanks for sharing your experience. Do you still love your DP? Does it seem like there is enough there to work for, to build on?

Taking a positive step forward sounds like a good idea. No matter where it leads, it will probably feel positive to actually do something rather than both you and DP existing but not moving forwards. Good luck.

Also, Cogito, if I turn your comments on their head, ie is there enough good stuff (do I feel loved, appreciated, supported?) then the answer is easier. I don't think there is enough and I wouldn't seriously be considering such huge changes to our lives if things were okayish.

But the other aspect I have considered is maybe it isn't the relationship, or DP that is the problem. Perhaps it is me. Would I be any happier on my own or with somebody else? Maybe I should be content but I'm not. Some people have strange ideas about what is good enough.

Years ago a woman I knew asked her mum for relationship advice because her DP was drinking a lot and her mother suggested she just put up with it.

I think I have the opposite problem to putting up with too much and expecting too little.

I love him for what we had and the children we made but I'm no longer in love with him. I care for him but I feel sure he'll soon move on. I guess the trust has gone but before all that I'd started to feel this way. I'm fed up of his inability to make a decision or interest in supporting me in what should be joint decisions. Everything is left for me to do...... Christmas has just topped it off!
We haven't had any time out really since our eldest, now 5, was born and all children arrived amidst traumas. He is great with the kids, always been really hands on but I know he'll lose interest if we separate. He has an older ds and since ive taken a step and stopped nagging him to contact his son, he hasnt.

I want someone who will look after me. Who'll spoil me once in a while, surprise me. Be impulsive. I want supporting and I want to laugh again.

Can we work on it? I don't know. He doesn't listen. He doesn't see. Everything he does irritates me......I think it's too late. My hope is that we can work together for the children's sakes.

Good luck no brains. Will post later

xmasrobin how sad. Your last paragrapgh rang true for me, those are things that I also want and DP doesn't seem to be able to give them to me.

Sometimes I think I need to accept him but I'd like to put myself first for once and be looked after sometimes.

I love my children, of course, but I wish I wasn't in this situation. I would have left long ago if it weren't for the DC.

How would you feel if he met someone else?

How would you feel if she became involved with your children?

These are the realities of splitting up with someone.

My exw didn't want me but god she was pissed of when I met someone else. Seems a bit odd that to me.

How old are your children nobrains? Do you have friends and a social life? Do you work? Do you have friends as a couple? You see I think this is part of mine and dps problem. I work but have very few friends. I don't socialise with anyone. I'm very shy. My DP works and has lots of friends at work, I know he is the life and soul but he doesn't ever go out.

Some days I just long to go and dance my socks off til the early hours and relive my youth a bit....!!!
I've had so much fun in the past, I've travelled, had a real blast, and the children were so very much wanted but I feel worn down by them and a shell of my old self.

We never have any money and this gets me down. My confidence has taken a nose dive and I always feel my parents ( my mum in particular) are über critical. They adore my DP perhaps more than like me. I dread contact with them, with a lot of friends at the moment as I feel like crying my heart out over this situation but don't feel like I can talk to anyone about it.

Maleview your questions raise good points. I would feel very hurt if he moved on quickly ( I think he would). Does that mean I still care? That it's worth fighting for? If also question how much another woman in his life was influencing his relationship with our children. I've been thd driving force behind his relationship with his older son.... Is my DP someone who detaches easily?

Nobrains if I was more fulfilled in my life outside of the home would I feel more content with DP? If I had laughs and fun in a social life could that make me expect less of him? Maybe my needs are too needy? (now who's procrastinating??

If you no loger love your husband and really can't make it work, despite counselling etc etc, but you're not actively arguing, how about this?

Rent a 1 bedroom flat fairly locally. Spend 50% of you time there each so you get 50% of the time with your children and then so does he. You agree ground rules about how the flat needs to be left tidy and maybe no shagging other people there etc.

That way, your kids have both parents albeit in turns, neither of you has to leave your children and home (cruel) and you don't ruin yourselves financially just because you have fallen out of love?

I'm sure there are many pitfalls to this but they must be less heartbreaking than either of you having to give up your home and kids.

'longer'

maleview that is sadly the reality of some situations. I don't think I can honestly answer that question.

But that situation is one removed from where I am at the moment. I don't think I can stay with him just to prevent him from meeting someone else.

You've got two small children and another baby on the way. So that is a lot for anyone to cope with. This is what I think. Feel free to quite reject and disagree with it.

I don't think I would separate at this moment in time because it's just too much for everyone to cope with. I'd wait till after the new baby is born and then think again. Unless things were absolutely unbearable and/or he was being abusive. And that certainly doesn't sound as if that's the case.

xmasrobins I don't have many of those things that you mention and I think it does impact negatively on our relationship but those things are not going to change in the short term and I'm not sure how much longer I can go on like this.

letsface it's funny because I was cooking up a similar idea earlier but felt that once the acrimony kicks in it would be a difficult arrangement to maintain.

Pessimistic I know but realistically how many couples who's have separated can maintain a respectful relationship.

Maybe I will always resent him and him me.

Vivienne I think that your suggestion is sensible and one that I have put into practice many times. Things will get better, let's just get over this hurdle, give it 6 months.

And here we are again, no change.

I feel frustrated, tired, fed up, pissed off, let down and I've had enough.

Yes, if there was genuine promise and real appetite to change and I saw evidence of this quickly I would want to stay. Mostly for the children and to save myself a lot of grief.

But if I stay I anticipate feeling even lower the next time we are in this situation.

Ok I'm going to throw my tuppenceworth in here and say this.

You sound like me and DH. We were like this for years - going round and round in circles. We didn't hate each other but we didn't 'engage' either.

We'd have the occasional blow up row but nothing ever really changed. We weren't meeting each other's needs - or even our own.

It was sometimes like living in a ghost relationship.

Lucky for us, we had a kick up the arse moment - a make or break time - and found a brilliant therapist who has really helped us sort ourselves out.

It makes me smile to remember that I went in to her room saying that I thought I was too needy and should ask less and give more - because I'd had years of feeling that my needs must be unreasonable because they weren't being met.

We can both see now that the exact opposite was true. He has invested much more in our relationship. We're out of the 'parent-child' roles we had colluded in assigning for ourselves and each other and things are on the up.

That said, we both know that we are not willing to go back to how it was before.

If he knows he stands to lose his family, will he go to a good therapist with you?
Could you give it a shot?

letsface thank you for sharing your experience.

DP would try anything (except changing!) but I'm fed up of finding solutions and making suggestions.

I think I am a bit needy but I haven't always been. Am I more needy now because I don't feel that my needs are being met? How do I ensure my needs are met instead of waiting to see if someone meets them or not?

A lot of people still believe, deep down, that women exist to serve men. So if the woman is putting far more effort into the relationship (doing the majority/all of the domestic work and childcare and also feeding the man's ego and being sexually available to him) the man will be content, and reluctant to do anything more than promise to change. And other people may well tell the woman that, if the man is not beating her up or having sex with other women, she has nothing to whine about, and that marriage 'has to be worked on'. THough it's nearly always women who are told to 'work' at marriage ie eat shit and shut up.

It's fine to end a relationship that is making you miserable. If he isn't prepared to compromise or put any effort into meeting your needs, then it's OK to move on; just try to do so as civilly as you can.