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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

A bit of an aibu but also do I say something or not?

28 replies

Wereonourway · 16/12/2012 08:51

I've posted before about abusive ex, we split in August.
I posted only last week about how happy I was now.
Last week was ds 2nd birthday. I invited ex. His family as well as mine and some of ds little friends to my home. Ex thought this was selfish of me as he would feel uncomfortable. He would rather not have had anyone there at all.
I organised cake, food, all of ds presents etc and just wanted ds to be able to spend the afternoon with all who love him. Ds has a great time.
Ex sat in corner on my iPad all night. Made no attorney to interact (even with ds). His family members came but didn't stay long. Ex went home at 5pm, everyone said help and goodbye but didn't really speak to him in between. There was no atmosphere as everyone was talking Amomgst themselves M&S enjoying spending time with ds.
After ex left I got a snotty text from ex mil. My family had made ex feel uncomfortable, must be awful for him M&S she expected better from my side of family, her family wouldn't be like that with me etc.
I was upset, I had put so much effort into giving ds a fantastic day and opened my door to everyone. Ex didn't even get ds a card although he did fiver cash towards his gifts.
Ex mil knows how abusive and narcissistic ex is, she has been on receiving end many times. Ex called my dm a cunt on Facebook, my df recently bought me a new to and washing machine as ex refused to give me mine.y whole family have seen me on rock bottom due to the abuse ex has put me through. Why does mil expect? And why was onus on my family to interact, like I said, he made zero effort also.
I've been stewing on this for days, feel like speaking to ex mil to explain how hurt I am that she even sent the text. Knowing how badly ex has treated me and seeing as he was lucky to even be allowed in my house.
I planned a lovely day. Ds was on cloud nine, opened my door to everyone. Made everyone welcome, desire what that shit has put me through and still end up getting shite like that.
Btw should have said, ex mil lives abroad so wAsnt there. Do I say something, do I leave it and exclude ex next time??

OP posts:
Wereonourway · 16/12/2012 08:53

God sorry about spelling etc. on phone which I'm not used to

OP posts:
pictish · 16/12/2012 09:00

It's quite easy really - just don't invite him, or them next time.

As your son's father, your ex may organise his own birthday celebration with his son and his family that suits them down to the ground.

You did your best and got nothing but attitude back, so fuck them all...they can sort themselves out from now on.

Is what I think.

FlojoHoHoHo · 16/12/2012 09:08

Inviting an abusive ex in to your home was never going to end well.
Learn from it. Don't ever let him so much as place his big toe on your door step.
In future DS has 2 birthdays, 2 Xmas's etc.
I'm in the same boat. DS spends Xmas eve and day with me, his dad picks him up boxing day and he spends a couple of days with him.

Walkacrossthesand · 16/12/2012 09:18

So let's get this straight - ex MiL sends you a text criticising how you & your family behaved when she wasn't even there?! so she's going totally on your ex's whining account of the day. How on earth can she say her family would do it differently when she wasn't even there?! What a load of nonsense.Don't let it spoil your memories, but learn the lesson - you cannot include your ex in family days. If you respond to ex MiL make it something like 'I made a mistake inviting ex to the party, he clearly didn't want to be there. We'll do it differently next time.'

CogitOCrapNotMoreSprouts · 16/12/2012 09:23

It was always going to be a mistake inviting him & his family to your home. Some people can carry on being amicable with exes and be able to socialise occasionally but your relationship wasn't amicable to start with - it was abusive. Why did you think anyone would suddenly be on best behaviour just because it's a kid's tea-party?

Lesson learned. Leave your ex out of future events completely and let him make his own arrangements. He is not a friend.

CogitOCrapNotMoreSprouts · 16/12/2012 09:25

And - to answer the original question directly - don't 'say anything' because all you'll create is more chances for others to be horrible to you. Just ignore and exclude them from this point forward. Make a life for yourself and DS that doesn't involve them.

theoriginalandbestrookie · 16/12/2012 09:26

That's dreadful, how ridiculous that she can't see the situation for what it is. I agree next year do not invite.

If you want to respond then I'd suggest:
"I'm sorry you feel that way" and leave it at that.

nurseneedshelp · 16/12/2012 09:27

You poor thing! Well done for trying so hard to make his birthday special.

Why did you invite him though???

Are you still frightened of this vile man and therefore feel like you have to include him to keep the peace??

Let him organise his own stuff next time! I'm sure the atmosphere wasn't very nice and his stupid mother won't be able to send upsetting texts

Wereonourway · 16/12/2012 09:38

Ex just wouldn't plan anything, ever. Totally couldn't understand why I has invited anyone other than him. And yes. She wasn't here.
Said ex was upset he wasn't there to put ds to bed, this is despite him giving up his overnight last week cos his van failed its mot?!
Tbh I'm going to have to get rough, ex asked for time he gets, I went to solicitor and has it put in writing that I agreed. This includes 2 overnights. On the mornings after the overnights ex simply can't or won't get ds ready. As in washed/ dressed/fed etc. I've just started a new job and cannot be late so I end up going to ex's at 7.30am to get ds up and ready before taking him to nursery. This has happened week in week out.
I have an appointment with solicitor in the new yr and plan to change his overnights or cancel them altogether. Ex will hit the roof, I thought about going to mediation to bring this all up.
Am thinking if we r sat with someone impartial he can't really argue with my reasons for doing it.
I've given him 3 months with his requested time and have a diary a mile long with details of him pissing about.
As I type he has just rang to say he has a christening today so won't be having ds. I've given him ample opportunity so now ill have to get tough

OP posts:
Wereonourway · 16/12/2012 09:39

And honestly the atmosphere was lovely, everyone had a lovely few hours and most importantly ds had a whale of a time

OP posts:
YouCanBe · 16/12/2012 09:46

Tell her that your family treated him with ten times the amount of civility deserved by a man who has previously called your mother a cunt.

Don't invite him again. The immature arsehole.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/12/2012 09:48

I would have all contact formalised asap and to use a contact centre for this purpose. If your current solicitor is not up to much, change solicitors.

Such abusive men like your ex often take great pleasure in mucking around their woman who they actually see as a possession to use and abuse as they see fit. This is about power and control ultimately. They are also not above using the child as a weapon to get back at their ex partner for leaving them, in this case you.

I would think long and hard before involving yourself in mediation at all with such a person; such men are inherently difficult and unreasonable and think only of themselves. He will undoubtedly make your life very difficult from now on in.

Wereonourway · 16/12/2012 09:53

I suppose I'm still adapting to the single parent life. His family have previously been amaZing, the know what he is like but suppose this has shown blood is thicker than water whatever the circumstance. Ex mil is visiting the area at Xmas and I think I will explain how shitty I thought it was of her.
I suppose I just wanted a fab day for ds without divide, and if it wasn't for ex crying to his mammy it would have been.
My family (and his who were there) saw it for what it was, a celebration for ds. None of my family are confrontational and certainly wouldn't be in that circumstance, he wasn't either, tbh he behaves exactly as he did last yr so it's no big change for him.
So sad that he and his mother can't see that

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Wereonourway · 16/12/2012 09:57

Attila, my solicitor was recommended by a colleague who has a similar ex. I've held back on 'using' his behaviour to give him the opportunity to step up. As I see it I was openly offering lots of contact, agreed to what he requested and he has blown it or is in the process of doing so.
I suppose I've tried to have an easy time. Having had enough of abuse and stress when with him.
My solicitor is aware I have given him opportunity to have the contact he wanted and to keep notes of how it's gone. I've done that and they don't make good reading. I was hoping mediation would bet opportunity to explain all of this with someone impartial present rather than top and fro with solicitors letter??

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defineme · 16/12/2012 10:02

Your ds did have a fab day!
Next year I'd just say 'I assume you'll celebrate ds' birthday with your family and give him a gift on this contact date as you felt uncomfortable at our joint celebration last year' I'd say the same to mil too.
Kids cope perfectly well with separated families that do not have joint celebrations.
Well done for trying, but don't put yourself through it again. Your ds will be fine.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/12/2012 10:03

I would be extremely wary about using any form of mediation at all considering his history of abusive behaviour towards you.

To use mediation is to subscribe to the mistaken idea that abuse is related to "misunderstandings" or lack of communication. If discussion and compromise, the mainstay of mediation, could help in any way most domestic violence situations would be long ago resolved because victims of abuse "discuss and compromise" constantly. Mediation assumes both parties will cooperate to make agreements work; the victim has always 'cooperated' with the abuser; the abuser never cooperates.

Mediation can be and is ordered by judges/courts, as can counselling and mental health evaluations. They are tools in the abuser's arsenal to be used against the victim as often as he chooses. In order for mediation to work and to not make situations worse the parties involved must have equal power and must share some common vision of resolution. This is clearly not present when domestic violence has taken place in a relationship.

Mediation practitioners must be alert to the need to interview partners separately with specially designed questions in order to determine if abuse is or has been present. Many domestic violence professionals can train others to screen safely for domestic violence. To not do so risks unsuccessful mediations, at best, and increasing the victim's danger by colluding with the abuser, at worst.

A person who has been terrorized by an abuser is not free to participate in a mediation process with him, even if the mediator(s) assume or believe that they "understand". Being truthful about any of her needs or experiences in the abuser's presence or proximity practically ensures that she is in more danger later.

The mediator is left with a no win: either the victim's danger is increased, or she is not fully or truthfully participating, or both. The well meaning mediator may actually encourage the victim to feel safe enough to share information that could seriously compromise her safety. In any case the whole intent of mediation is lost.

To engage an abuser and a victim in a process that implies equal responsibility is damaging to both. The victim is once again made to feel responsible for the abuser's behavior, and the abuser is allowed to continue to not accept full responsibility for his behaviour choices.

Wereonourway · 16/12/2012 10:13

Thank you Attila, that is extremely helpful.
I have given in to ex, I did not want him to have the access he has but I suppose it's on record that I agreed to it and it will now be on record that he can't do the early mornings/ cancels for social events etc. without making it sound like a game he has played into my hands and shown time and time again that his ds is not his priority.
My son is my world, being parted from his for any amount of time hurts so much but apart from my own selfish reasons I actually parent, I provide for ds. Ex simply does not

OP posts:
LaCiccolina · 16/12/2012 10:17

Lets get this straight, he's known abusive/violent. He's thus far got the exact terms he requested. He's broken or abused them. U have evidence of this. Ur solicitor is experienced in this type of case.

And u are seriously asking us if u should go for mediation?

I admire ur generosity of spirit but think u left ur brains in bed. It's time frankly to grow a pair and not put up with antics from him any longer. U are successfully creating ur ds and ur life. So, treat him as a hostile part of it UNTIL he can prove he's deserving of anything less. Onus is on him not u to try.

Think of ur ds and what this image of a man could do to him and future relationships. Good luck

LaCiccolina · 16/12/2012 10:20

Attila put that much better than I. Excellently put.

You have the educated view and the colloquial (mine)!

Both seem to amount to similar....

Take the hint. Please.

Wereonourway · 16/12/2012 10:28

I asked about mediation as I have zero experience of it laciccolina, not because I've 'left my brains in bed'.
Ex is abusive, he is nasty and has put me through hell. So yes I probably am still wary. I've come a million miles in the few months since I left and am content and in a calm household.
I have ex his request, having spoken to my solicitor with whom I've had 1 short appointments. Solicitor has not mentioned mediation, I saw it as a way of protecting myself from unwanted verbal abuse and not having had any experience of this whatsoever.
The very helpful post from Attila has shown me that this will defeat the object and my hope for someone impartial to 'stick up for me' and understand the reasons for changing contact won't happen.
I do intend to toughen up, he is failing ds and using me. I see that and intend to stop it.
I do not want anything stopping me on my quest to build a new life for myself and ds and apologise for my naievity in such matters.

OP posts:
CogitOCrapNotMoreSprouts · 16/12/2012 12:26

Mediation relies on everyone in the room being reasonable, mature, considerate people. When dealing with an unreasonable person like your ex, it simply isn't appropriate. Put all communication through your solicitor and, if you get any verbal (text/e-mail) abuse, the response is a final 'talk to my solicitor'.

MrsTomHardy · 16/12/2012 12:48

Yes you need to get tough.
If he can't get DS up/dressed/ fed in the mornings ready for nursery then he doesn't have overnight on those mornings, simple!!!

LaCiccolina · 16/12/2012 12:49

It's not naivety. Ur just in the woods and well seeing trees is hard. I do realise. I'm glad Attilas comments resonated well. That's a very good thing.

But I'm still surprised u were going for mediation considering u can plainly see that requires two adults to be on the same / similar level to attempt. U clearly from what u say urself are not. This isn't a disagreement, it's more fundamental isn't it?

Wereonourway · 16/12/2012 13:40

I mistakenly thought mediation would see us 'thrashing out' an agreement based on parenting and the needs of ds in the hope that ex simply could not argue with my reasoning with an impartial professional person present.
The difficult thing is that ex simply does not see that if he can't do mornings he can't have the nights, he is extremely narcissistic. Any argument I come up with, however reasonable, will be met with extreme anger and I'd love a situation where someone impartial could 'agree with' me.
I feel like I'm in a no win situation, I want what's best for my son and I believe mammy dropping him off at 6pm then collecting him again at 7.30 am 2 nights a week just isn't right
My appointment is booked for first week of jan, I know I will have to steel myself for backlash, I suppose I need to disengage and remind myself it's for my son.
I do appreciate all replies, I never imagined I'd be in this situation and am learning as I go, trying all the time to prioritise ds's needs as well as keep the peace for his sake
Feel like I'm getting sucked back in to pandering to ex in order to have z peaceful life, perhaps I'm not as far into 'recovery' as I'd hoped.

OP posts:
CogitOCrapNotMoreSprouts · 16/12/2012 13:56

If you ever go for management training they talk to you about the 'sell' style vs the 'tell' style of management, depending on the circumstances. 'Sell' means bringing people along with change and decisions, letting them have their say and seeking cooperation. 'Tell' means you make the decisions and then you say what happens.

Because you're still frightened of him and because you're still hoping that somewhere underneath all the anger and aggression your ex is a reasonable man that - like you - will do the best for your child if given the chance, you're still stuck in 'sell' mode. You feel you have to be persuasive and conciliatory and get him to buy into any changes.

In reality, his behaviour and neglect mean that he has forfeited the right to be involved in decision-making. You owe him no consideration whatsoever. You and your solicitor need to work out what is best for your son and what is best for you... and then tell your ex how it's going to be.