Difficult: resumed contact with Mother

[blockednose]

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to MN, but have commented on a few other threads. This is my first post, and apologise if it is too long or appears a big vague - I don't want to out myself re my daughter.

Last year, my DD had an accident at home, and was in hospital for a week. My mother had never liked my husband and at the time of my DD's accident se literally went on a crusade against him. She first blamed him for my her accident ( it was not his fault, both of us "were to blame"). At the time, her dislike for him was unleashed and there was no more politeness which she had exercised previously. It all came to a head when she came round my house and was unhappy that his family had come to visit out DD as she had been released from hospital and my mother had not allowed them to see her when she was in hospital. At the time both myself and my DH did not stop her being so controlling and excluding his family as we were both too distraught to confront it.

She abused my DH and his Aunt (who brought him up after his mother died). I told her to leave my house, that it was unacceptable for her to speak to my DH that way or his family. We did not speak from that August until Christmas, fell out again in January '12 and so have not spoken for a year...my siblings sided with her and none of them have seen me or my DD. they have all sent many abusive emails and texts to myself and my DH including one in which my mother disrespectfully talks about my DH's deceased mother. None of them attended our wedding in the summer and have refused to see my DD up until now.

This morning my mother called me and asked to see my DD, I agreed. What she failed to tell me is that she brought one of my sister's along, who has been extremely abusive towards myself and DH. I did not want to see her, I could just about cope with the stress and anxiety of seeing my mother again.

My mother would like to see DD next week to give we her Xmas presents, but I really want to tell her not to bring either of my sisters along or my brother. They never make any individual efforts with their niece, and I feel so angry about the fact that they are trying to sweep everything under the carpet and as usual only do something of my mother does it.

When she calls me next week, I want to calmly tell we to just meet me by herself. But I am so anxious about them over reacting (as they normally do) and creating another big family feud.

Thank you if you have read this far, my husband feels very hurt by all of them, and he supports me taking our DD to see her grandmother but I know he does not really want to see me this stressed and anxious. I guess I'm looking for support and others opinions.

Thank you all xx

toxic family by the sound of it. You're trying to set boundaries (after their appalling behaviour) but they will ignore them and do what they like. YOu notice your mother has only asked to see DD, not you. Well, you're a package. I know she's going to see you as you'll be taking DD, but she didn't ask to see you but to see DD. imo it is damaging for your child to be in a relationship with people who are abusive to his/her parents. unfortunately, this is ime not just imo.

So, why are you taking DD to see her g'mother again? Are you doing it because you think they have a right to a relationship and you're not going to stand in their way? You don't have to facilitate a relationship between them if it means you're nailed to a cross to achieve it. Demand respect and, if it is not forthcoming, that is your answer. Just because she asked to see DD doesn't mean you have to do what she says.

welovecouscous thank you. I have and don't know how to really handle it. Just weeks ago I was coming to terms with having severed all contact with them, and now I feel like I'm thrown in at the deep end with them again. I don't want to have NO relationship with my family, especially for my DD, but the last 11 months have been so stress free and since this morning the old feelings of anxiety and me feeling like I can't say why I feel/ mean without them creating a drama have returned. And just when I thought this Xmas period would go smoothly...

springy you are right. Why am I doing this? I don't believe my mother has a right to a relationship with my DD but I want her to have one. I didn't have the chance to a relationship with any oft four g'parents.

I should demand respect, my DH says the same thing. I guess I need to stop feeling this fear of confrontation: they love confrontation. I want to be able to say to my mother I don't want to see my siblings at all, I am willing to meet with her so she can see DD. That is it. And not as often as she likes.

I feel like she is very controlling and everything is always on her terms, and when I tell her that I don't want her to bring my siblings along (like they are her crew) she will refuse and make demands. I will have to say that in that case she can't see DD and then she will blame me for not allowing her to see her granddaughter.

Also, I feel like I have finally come to terms with the fact that I will never har a relationship with my mother, but my DD may have one, but it will always be supervised by myself. But if I allow her to start bringing my siblings along for backup, then she will start trying to har a relationship with me which totally excludes my DH, and under no circumstances am I willing for that to happen, even though after their abuse he wants nothing to do with them, but it is my mother go has engineered all of this. She is happy to pretend like he does not exist and I am not.

Sorry for the spelling mistakes, I am on the phone.

It is very very hard couscous and I feel like limited contact would be fine, just perfect. Enough for my DD to know who g'mother is from my side. My siblings make absolutely NO effort with DD unless my mother is involved, and they have all abandoned me. They have done nothing to help this rift, they just encourage and endorse my mother's behavior if you see what I mean. I dont blame them, I blame my mother as she is very manipulative, but the fact that after the abuse they have slung at me I don't want to be forced into seeing any of them.

My boundaries are as follows: my mother has asked to see DD (not me, exactly). I am willing to let her. None of my siblings have asked, and I don't want to see them all at once together at all. In the past they have ganged up on me and I feel extremely anxious being around them coupled with my mother. When she calls next week I will tell her that I will meet her, but only alone. If she refuses, I will remain calm and tell her fine, no meeting.

I am do strong in my relationship with my DH and friends, I need to bring this into my relationships (if I can call them that) with my family.

springy I have just read your post again, and even by doing this I see I am not really demanding the respect my whole family unit deserves.

However, my DH wants absolutely nothing to do with them anymore. But he wants our DD to see her g'mother. I feel like my mother had achieved what she wants in cutting him out, but I don't want her to think that after everything she has done we are back on track. We are not. She abandoned me at such a difficult time, she didn't come to my wedding, and it's always about her feelings. So now that she had resumed contact with DD I want to make sure those boundaries are not blurred and not be manipulated by her anymore.

the last 11 months have been so stress free

You've got to listen to that. It is definitely damaging for your daughter to have a relationship with your mother and siblings, particularly if it means they will badmouth you and DH. It may be painful to face that DD won't have a relationship with her g'mother, history repeating itself, but this woman doesn't come in peace. She very clearly doesn't bring peace to your marriage/family, but is only interested to take what she wants ie DD. Perhaps, for once, she can't have exactly what she wants, regardless.

x-post. She will manipulate you! She will use your daughter to do it, too.

springy you speak sense, you speak so much sense.

Well, now I'm not sure what to do. I have agreed she can see DD (with me there) before Xmas, but obviously I will have to tell her that I do not want my siblings there. Now I think maybe I should reconsider.

DH would never allow DD to be alone with them, nor would I as they would bad mouth DH, his family.

And yes, it would be history repeating itself. Her father treated my dad the same, my fathers parents treated her the same and both my parents are what I would call emotionally abusive towards me.

She brings no peace or harmony to our family at all. That is a true statement. I feel I could manage a "relationship" with her for now, not all of them at once together. I feel maybe I should make our next meeting short and telll her that I will contact her next time. And that will be when I feel ready. I already feel like once again she is doing what she does best and being controlling.

I'm reading my posts and feel like this is more stress than it's worth, all for her to get what she wants as usual. I shouldn't be stressing about this nonsense, not after almost a whole year without this anxiety.

I need to reassess and ignore her if she calls but I really don't know what to do after letting her see DD today.

Sheesh. If someone had treated me or my dh the way your mother has treated you, then I'm afraid they wouldn't being seeing me or my children at all.

You say you want your dd to know her g'mother but that you fear she will bad mouth you. Or your siblings will bad mouth you in front of her. How poisonous is that? If that's the case, the why on earth do you want to subject your dd to these people?

It sounds like you're offering up your dd as a kind of peace offering. It will end horribly because your mother will try to control and turn your dd against you. Do you really think she will be kinder to your dd than she is to you? I doubt it.

If someone had been so vile to me, then I'd expect a lot more grovelling and apologies from them. Your siblings actually sound revolting.

You and your dd come as a package and an awful lot more respect needs to be shown to you and your little family.

Personally, I'd be turning my back on them, changing email addresses and phone numbers.

Why do you and your H want your DD to have relationship with this awful woman?

A toxic grandmother is NOT better than no grandmother at all.

If your M makes you feel this way, why on earth should your poor DD be put in the firing line?

If your M has negative feelings towards your family unit, then she is unlikely to provide anything positive for your DD.

You need to get the stage where you don't give ashit what she/they say/think. Do not put pleasing your M above doing what is really best for your child.

You have my sympathy in this situation. I have been where you are. 12 years on and my DDs are happy healthy young women and I am so GLAD I saved them from being dragged into all this hideous nonsense.

Good luck with sorting this to your satisfaction. Who cares if you don't please your M?

It is your duty to protect your children from people you know are poisonous.

Please do not let your dd be subjected to there abuse, please protect her, they have no rights to see her, and your dd has everyright to not be abused

Some grandparents really shouldn?t be allowed access to their grandchildren.

A percentage of the general population is dysfunctional and/or abusive. That percentage, like everyone else, has children. Then those children grow and have children of their own. The not-so-loving grandparents expect to have a relationship with their grandchildren. The only problem is, they?re not good grandparents.

Many adult children of toxic parents feel torn between their parents? (and society?s) expectation that grandparents will have access to their grandkids, and their own unfortunate firsthand knowledge that their parents are emotionally/physically/sexually abusive, or just plain too difficult to have any kind of healthy relationship with.

The children?s parents may allow the grandparents to begin a relationship with their children, hoping that things will be different this time, that their parents have really changed, and that their children will be emotionally and physically safer than they themselves were.

Unfortunately, this is rarely the case, because most abusive people have mental disorders of one kind or another, and many of these disorders are lifelong and not highly treatable. (Others are lifelong and treatable; however, many people never seek the necessary help.)

The well-intentioned parent ends up feeling mortified for having done more harm than good by hoping things would somehow be different ? instead of having a child who simply never knew their grandparents and who was never mistreated, they have an abused child who is now also being torn apart by the grief involved in having to sever a lifelong relationship with the unhealthy people they are very attached to.

If your parents were not good parents and you are considering whether or not to allow a relationship with your children, consider the following factors, as well as others, before deciding:
?Have they fully addressed their issues in SKILLED long-term therapy? (A few weeks or months is nowhere near adequate if your parents regularly mistreated you).
.
?Have they been treated for all the root causes of their dysfunction or abuse?
.
?Have they sincerely apologized and made amends for the hurtful things they did? Not just said, ?I?m sorry?, but really talked it all through with you over many hours? time?
.
?Are they very different people to you from the ones you remember?
.
?Do you currently have a healthy, functional and stable relationship with them?
.
?Do they respect your choices and boundaries as a parent? Do they follow your requests about how you want your children to be treated and to behave?
.
?Would you recommend your parents to your best friend as babysitters without any hesitation or worry, and feel comfortable giving your word that they?d never harm your friend?s child, without any doubt?
.
?Have you worked through all of your feelings about the mistreatment you experienced through your parents?

It is important to keep in mind that if they are too toxic for you, they are FAR too toxic for your vulnerable and defenseless children.

What I was saying above is what is the hook that is making you feel obliged? What is it that is at the root of you feeling compelled to go along with this? It's good to identify what is going on at root so you can challenge it.

I also wouldn't lock horns with your mother/siblings. They have proved what they are capable of, you are not that type of person. They will outstrip you. So don't lock horns, just hold your boundaries. And they are that access to DD comes through you and her father: reject/abuse you two, no access to DD.

I would also think that you would answer NO to each of the questions put in my previous posting.

That itself is a good reason for them not to see your DD. Toxic parents really do not make for beign good grandparents; they are anything but.

Your role is to protect your child from such malign influences for your sake as well as your child's.

Many adults who were children of such toxic parents often carry FOG around with them even now - fear, obligation, guilt. As springy has written (and I agree with every single word she has written to you on this matter), what is the hook that is making you feel so obliged?.

She has demanded access and trampled over any boundaries you care to employ. You have every right to deny her such access.

great posts Attila.

I see my mother but only because I can't do it to her ie cut her off. She is not the main source of the abuse but is brainwashed by it. So I see her for 5, maybe 10 minutes, and call her about once a month.

that's my mother, but your mother doesn't sound brainwashed by the abuse but a primary source of it. You could, maybe, take DD to see her for 5, maybe 10 minutes (20? you get the gist) so g'mother gets to see DD in the flesh but doesn't have an opportunity to interact with her in any significant way. You could stipulate that your siblings aren't there and, if she ignores that, don't enter the house, or leave immediately. You don't have to make a song and dance of it, just be firm and resolute. The less you say the better. YOu are protecting your daughter from what has happened to you, the rank poison of it.

This all sounds straightforward in print but it is anything but if you have had a history of being abused by your mother/family. ime I can barely string a few words, let alone a sentence, together. My actions speak louder than my words. I don't tie myself in knots trying to come up with the right words - they're not worth the angst and energy of it.

I should stipulate that the above is only a suggestion. The better option would be for DD to have no relationship at all with the poisonous brood, to not be exposed to them at all on any level.

x-posting with Attila!

Op, you're in charge of your life and the well being of your own family and your dd now.

Don't imagine you have to let your mother see your dd at all.

You don't have to explain yourself or apologise to any of your wider family. You can tell them exactly how it's going to be e.g. no siblings present or no visit.

You make your own rules.

winky in January we did actually lay down the law and both myself and DH said that under no circumstances could they be abusive towards myself and DH and then continue seeing our DD when and how she wanted. DD is 3 yrs old in January and a fear of ours is that if we let her have undupervised contact with DD now and in the future she will badmouth DH (that is how much she dislikes him) and myself for choosing to be loyal to our family. I have had no apologies or groveling. I think my mother banks on the fact that all I want at the end of the day is for DD to know her g?mother. His parents died when he was very young (mother when he was 5, father when he was 12) and as I said upthread I never knew any of my four grandparents because of the very dysfunctional behavior that my own parents display today. I know this is not entirely rational as they are not amazing parents to me now.

scarlet DH and I want our DD to have a relationship with g?mother I guess because we both believe she genuinely loves her. I don?t think she loves me, her own daughter, the way a mother should. I think it?s easy for her to have no real relationship with me and still have one with my DD, as she sees her as HER g?daughter. You are right, I do need to get to a stage where I don?t give a shit about her, or what she thinks, or what any of them say. I don?t want to repeat the same mistakes my mother has made with me along the way, I don?t want my DD to grow up realizing that I effectively don?t have a mother, but it?s not my doing is it??

whiteandyellow yes, I should be protecting her from these abusive people and that?s why I was thinking that supervised visits with just my mother at the moment was the way forward, but now I am not so sure?

atilla your post made me cry as you are right, I answer no to every one of those statements (apart from the babysitting one, but that?s quite minor). I think I need counseling to be able to deal with all of this, I have been trying to work through it by myself and reading about other?s experiences here on MN. Both yourself and springy have made me see that I have not really addressed my conflicting feelings, and yes, my FOG. I do not know exactly what the hook is for me feeling obliged to let my mother see my DD. I don?t want my mother to die without DD ever having known her, which is what happened to me and my G?parents on her side. They died and I never knew them, they refused to see me and my siblings as my mother was not doing things the way they wanted her to do it. And now she is repeating this controlling behavior with me.

I also feel that even though I may not be able to have a healthy relationship with my mother that my DD should be able to have contact with her. I can?t exactly call it a relationship now thinking about it, because I will always be there to supervise. After everything she has done and the poison and vitriol she has shown myself and DH, I just do not trust her anymore. That in itself is not healthy, I can see that.

I spoke to DH this morning about the whole situation and he told me that he is aware of how abusive and controlling my family are towards me, but that he does not think that they are like that towards DD. How they can separate her from myself and her father, I do not know. He wants absolutely nothing to do with them whatsoever, but he does want to be consulted on how and when my mother sees DD and for my mother to know that he is very much involved in this decision to allow her to have contact with DD inside our boundaries.

I think I really need professional help.

Also atilla, my mother has been in counseling but it really has not helped her IMO. I have tried to discuss these latest problems with her recently (in April this year): her mistreatment of my family unit, etc, very unsuccessful. As soon as she hears something she doesn?t want to, she shuts down. And always refuses to apologise or make amends.