Difficult: resumed contact with Mother

[blockednose]

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to MN, but have commented on a few other threads. This is my first post, and apologise if it is too long or appears a big vague - I don't want to out myself re my daughter.

Last year, my DD had an accident at home, and was in hospital for a week. My mother had never liked my husband and at the time of my DD's accident se literally went on a crusade against him. She first blamed him for my her accident ( it was not his fault, both of us "were to blame"). At the time, her dislike for him was unleashed and there was no more politeness which she had exercised previously. It all came to a head when she came round my house and was unhappy that his family had come to visit out DD as she had been released from hospital and my mother had not allowed them to see her when she was in hospital. At the time both myself and my DH did not stop her being so controlling and excluding his family as we were both too distraught to confront it.

She abused my DH and his Aunt (who brought him up after his mother died). I told her to leave my house, that it was unacceptable for her to speak to my DH that way or his family. We did not speak from that August until Christmas, fell out again in January '12 and so have not spoken for a year...my siblings sided with her and none of them have seen me or my DD. they have all sent many abusive emails and texts to myself and my DH including one in which my mother disrespectfully talks about my DH's deceased mother. None of them attended our wedding in the summer and have refused to see my DD up until now.

This morning my mother called me and asked to see my DD, I agreed. What she failed to tell me is that she brought one of my sister's along, who has been extremely abusive towards myself and DH. I did not want to see her, I could just about cope with the stress and anxiety of seeing my mother again.

My mother would like to see DD next week to give we her Xmas presents, but I really want to tell her not to bring either of my sisters along or my brother. They never make any individual efforts with their niece, and I feel so angry about the fact that they are trying to sweep everything under the carpet and as usual only do something of my mother does it.

When she calls me next week, I want to calmly tell we to just meet me by herself. But I am so anxious about them over reacting (as they normally do) and creating another big family feud.

Thank you if you have read this far, my husband feels very hurt by all of them, and he supports me taking our DD to see her grandmother but I know he does not really want to see me this stressed and anxious. I guess I'm looking for support and others opinions.

Thank you all xx

Can I just say thank you to everyone who has replied, I really do appreciate everyone that has posted. I am sitting here crying with relief that I at least have the right idea and have finally been able to see that yes, my parents are abusive. My mother has always freely told us how (physically and emotionally) abusive my father is, but last year I realised that she too is emotionally abusive. She is no better than him in my eyes, but somehow she thinks she is.

springy, thank you, I knew you were talking from experience, didn't want to be nosy but yes, mother is definitely the instigator in the abuse that I suffer from my family, and in this latest episode also got my piece of shit father involved.

The meeting yesterday went well from my point of view in that I was able to monitor interaction with DD, and also, FOR ONCE I did not play into her hands in engaging in any talk about us not speaking. What I find is that she is so controlling that she will bring up past upsets only when and how SHE wants to. If I said in the past I would like to meet and discuss A or B, she would say no. But then bring it up at the most inappropriate time, or when she's got one of my disloyal siblings as back up. Yesterday I told her, I'm not talking about it with you and moved on.

In the past, I cried whenever I saw her if we hadn't been speaking as I felt hurt and angry, and those feelings were too raw. I didn't do that yesterday but I did have major anxiety before and after. I will say for next time, yes, will meet you, no siblings. If that is ignored, I will turn right back around and go home.

I dont think I am ready to really cut her off completely if I am perfectly honest. I don't know why but I think I would be making a decision for DD when she is too young to make that choice. I feel like my mother and father and their parents all fucked things up for me with my g'parents and I don't want to do that to my DD.

winky - I will remember that. I make my own rules. No demands, no conditions from them. She is OUR DD, OUR family, and what we say goes.

Blockednose,

[ did not mean to make you cry but that needed to be written to you.

You can see how this toxic crap has gone down the generations by this comment you made:-

"I don?t want my mother to die without DD ever having known her, which is what happened to me and my G?parents on her side. They died and I never knew them, they refused to see me and my siblings as my mother was not doing things the way they wanted her to do it. And now she is repeating this controlling behavior with me".

My response perhaps seen as harsh to you re the first 13 words of that sentence is why not?. That is FOG again I think. Your mother does not deserve you or your DD in your lives. You would not tolerate such ill treatment from a friend, family are truly no different.

There are three generations there who have been profoundly affected by abuse; the ball is firmly in your court now to protect your DD from your toxic mother and siblings. Controlling stuff like this does filter down the generations with now your DD being dragged into this. They bring nothing at all positive into your life. You have a choice and it can and should stop with you. You do not have to continue this toxic cycle.

Not surprised at all to see that counselling has beena complete fail for your mother. Such people are innured to counselling and never ever admit wrong doing, it was a waste of time for her to even attend one session anyway.

I do think that counselling for your own self will be of more use to you; BACP are good and do not charge the earth. Counsellors though are like shoes, you need to find someone who fits.

Also if they are too toxic for you, they are also too toxic for your child to be around as well.

It sounds to me blockednose that you want your DD to have a maternal grandmother, which is perfectly natural. It's unfortunate though that your mother doesn't sound like someone she should be around. Maybe you want her to have that role in her life fulfilled, but don't want your mother to fulfil it? Can you use that as a basis to help clarify some of your feelings?

I'd be very wary about opening the door, especially when there are presents involved (bribery) and when no apology has been made to your DH. I say this as the person in your DH's shoes with my ILs, who will not be involved when DC1 arrives.

As usual I agree with Attila. You are in danger of perpetuating this cycle, and while it sounds like you've made progress, you don't have to do any of this.

attila, yes it is FOG that I don't want my mother to die with DD not having known her. There is no other real reason, especially as I did not know my own g'parents, I have no feeling (love, hate) but indifference as I did not know them to develop any feelings. My g'mother on my father's side is still alive and lives near me and I genuinely have no wish or desire to see her - that is because I never knew her. From experience it will be the same for DD - if she doesn't know them, she won't care.

I will definitely look into counselling, as I want this abuse to stop here. I don't ever want to do to my DD what my mother has done to me. I really don't want to be controlling, abusive, make her feel guilty, make her choose, etc.

I will be honest, I can't bring myself to totally cut her out, so I think I do need counselling because here is the first time I've been able to see that a lot of my inability to stick to no contact comes from FOG.

You need to protect your DD.

I would not continue to allow your mother to abuse you in this way. I would cut all contact.
Sorry but your DH and DD come first.

forgetmenots I do want DD to have a maternal g'mother, and maybe this is also because even though I say I have, I have not FULLY accepted that there is no relationship for myself and my mother, so maybe vicariously I am seeing my DD have that with my mother where I can not, so then I feel like I am not really missing out??

Before DD was born, DH and I were in your situation, my family were not going to be involved with DD. They would not respect him, my mother told me I was ruining my life , etc. I told her that unless she can have a civil relationship with DH then she would not be involved. Everything was "sorted" but we are really back to sq1 again.

I guess I am making progress in that DD was able to have a supervised visit with her again, but that's about as far as I am willing to go. I need to think about my boundaries now so I am not railroaded into anything with my mother, or the rest of the family.

DH has said that he really really really does not want any apology from them, he wants nothing from them, he does not want to see or speak to any of them at all. All he wants is for my mother to see DD supervised by myself.

I see now too that I am in danger of letting history repeat itself, and actually facilitating my mother's behaviour. But I think I will keep posting here, get myself booked in for counselling, set my boundaries before our next conversation, and anything that moves outside of mine and DH's boundaries I shall just stop contact.

Blocked, you are the one who will stop this generational toxicity. You're already doing it by being a great mum looking out for your dd's well being.

When your dd has children, you will be the loving grandmother and there will be no more of what you experienced.

In an ideal world, we would all have loving gods who only sought to contribute in a positive, loving way. I think a lucky few have these gps.

If your mother is so cruel to you, I think it irrelevant that she loves your dd. She needs to be working a lot harder in terms of mending bridges with you and your dh

She is not doing this which shows how little respect she has for you. More fool her because by standing up to her, you show her you mean business and she has to behave like a decent person to you.

Do you feel sorry for her?

It's not at all your fault she messed things up with you, your gps and possibly your siblings. But please don't let her continue to treat you and your dh so badly. You deserve more. As does your dd.

MrsTom I do appreciate what you are saying and that is what I have been doing since January. I cut all contact, but in May, I asked my mother if she would like to see g'daughter as we always felt she loves her, treats her well etc, she used to see her all the time.

She said no as she felt myself and DH would stop her seeing DD as soon as she did something wrong (as in, was abusive again). I said of course we had the right to do that, so she did not see DD. Now yesterday, I guess she has realised that that is just the way things will be.

I do need to protect DD, I agree, but I feel I am doing so by making sure I supervise these visits and also tell her not to bring my siblings along again. If she at any stage does not agree to supervised or brings a sibling along, not only will I not allow it but DH definitely will not. He does not want DD being left alone with any of them without me there because of their manipulative behaviour.

Loving gps, not gods.

What happens when DD is a bit older and your mother starts wanting her to visit on her own ie- Dd can come round for tea one night!! She will get DD on side and then you'll have to explain to DD why she can't see Nan on her own....it could get very complicated in years to come.

Also agree with Winky... If my mother had no respect for me or my DH

that sounds like clear thinking blockednose - keep posting and talking it through and get some counselling for yourself. I think being aware of exactly what is going on is key. Good luck.

Oppss posted too soon

If there was no respect there then she wouldn't get to see any children we had, end of.

winky I agree with what you are saying, she has not actually done ANY work in mending bridges with myself and DH, none whatsoever.

I don't know if I feel sorry for her, but I guess she has always been good at manipulating me into feeling guilty about her. I feel like there is no helping her, I give up trying to make her see how she has irreparably damaged our relationship, and that there is no way in hell that we can ever have a natural and loving mother-daughter relationship because a big part of me she does not treat with respect - my DH. So because I believe there is no chance of that, I just want her to see DD in a controlled and supervised way.

I guess both myself and DH believe that if we have no relationship with her then she cannot treat us badly, but that she should have contact with DD.

Blocked nose, I don't see how your mother has changed or if she ever will. You know very well what she's like.

You might have a very disappointed and upset dd on your hands in future.

mrstom I have thought of that and there will just be no unsupervised visits. If she cannot have a normal visit relationship with DH and myself then she cannot expect to have access as she pleases with DD, I have explained this to her in the past. I guess that I will have to reiterate this and explicitly set out these boundaries instead of waiting for her to try and push them.

It could get very complicated and therefore if this is to continue I'm going to have to set up some non-negotiable ground rules.

I really don't want that for my DD winky... I do know that she will never change, that's why I think I should lay down boundaries now with the expectation that things will never improve, and stick to that. She does not even deserve this I know.

I guess what your mother deserves is irrelevant now.

What does your dd deserve? What do you deserve? And your dh?

Anyway, you sound very intelligent, calm and rational thinking it all through in this way.

winky you are right, what my mother deserves is irrelevant. There I go again thinking about HER instead of my own beautiful family.

Myself, DH and DD, we all deserve to be happy. All I've ever wanted out of life is to be happy. My little family unit right now makes me happy. My mother does not.

I suppose I'm scared of my DD in the future being unhappy (no maternal g'mother) but really and truly, this is unlikely, especially as I work hard to be the best mother I can and not be controlling and manipulative and set conditions for my relationship with her. She has a good father who is very well balanced and does not have a dysfunctional background unlike myself.

I am going to try and remain calm and rational and actually go and make my list of boundaries as a reminder to myself and a reference to prevent myself being drawn in to any manipulative games.

Your dd is not going to be unhappy having no maternal gm. It's a bonus but it's not imperative for happiness at all. What is crucial for a happy person is to be loved and nurtured as a child and your dd has that.

If you genuinely feel your mother can only add to your dd's well being then brilliant.

But if she can only see her gm supervised then that speaks volumes to me about how you do not trust her to be good to your dd. Slagging you and your dh off to your dd is abusive behaviour.

blocked, your dd will not suffer from the lack of a so-called grandmother like that, I know other people have said it better upthread, but wanted to reiterate it. You sound like a brilliant mother, but beware of trying to please everybody because as a nice person, that is what your instinct tells you to do. I wrote an almost identical post to you some months ago, saying that I 'wanted to tell' my parents not to bring my brother to our house, and these wise women gave me great advice along the same lines. You are in charge. Stay strong, you deserve to be happy yourself.

Blocked, your love and complete devotion to your little one shines through all the nastiness and pain that you - and your lovely husband - have endured. So let that love give you the strength to stand up to this very damaged woman, Swallow your fear, make your boundaries clear, and the fact that they must not be overstepped, otherwise it`s Goodnight Vienna. You sound as if you have a lovely family unit. Why the hell would you want to risk it for a woman who has brought you nothing but pain. Working this through with a good Counsellor would be very helpful,

winky, I agree that it is very telling that I will not allow any unsupervised visits. I told my SIL this yesterday and she was shocked. I think a lot of people think that now that I am back in contact with my mother, I potentially have an extra babysitter now. But part of the reason for me not wanting my DD to be with my mother unsupervised becauseI don't really trust her after the way she has hurt me, but also I feel like she will believe she is entitled to this relationship with her g'daughter once again...I don't know if I'm explaining myself very well here.

creepy I am going to look for your post. It helps to know that people have been in similar situations, or that they have managed to deal with family like this. I really do not want to see my siblings at all, and I will remember that I am in charge, and what I say goes. My mother is so controlling and manipulative, I know I need to stay firm. Did your parents listen to you?

autumn I agree with what you are saying completely. As attila said up thread I am definitely feeling Fear, Obligation and Guilt. I need to swallow that fear as you have said and not waver. In the past I have made the mistake of going into situations blind with my mother, with not having the courage to say NO to her disgusting behaviour. I won't make the same mistake this time around.

I would once again just like to say to everyone thank you so much for your replies. Last night I read this to my DH and if he didn't know it before, he now knows how amazing MN is!!