where is the line betwern friendhip and EA

[baremadness]

To be honest before MN I had never heard of the concept of emotional afairs. I do understand why they can be painful now, but I always used to think cheating involved actually doing something whether that be a kiss or something more.

What I would like to know is from both sides where that line is. People can be friends with people the same sex as their partner. But where does friendship start looking like something more to your partner and when does it cross that line to you?

legojunkie Are close platonic friendships ever possible, married or not?

Doesn't every affair including physical have some element of emotional aspects?

"Are close platonic friendships ever possible if you are married?"

My view - and you can call my cynical - is that very few male/female friendships are genuinely platonic, married or otherwise, unless one of you is gay.... and even then... :) Nothing may ever come of it and nothing may ever be said but I've seen it so often that I think truly platonic relationships are very rare indeed.

If my friend was a she insead of a he, then I have no doubt we would be closer because there wouldn't be this enforced barrier. I could give her a hug, or touch her shoulder in support, we could share a meal alone or go put to dinner alone. , or go out dancing or drinking together. None of which I would do now because I don't think it would be seen as appropriate.

So that line must be to do with sex. Not the actual deed now but the theoretical might The fear of it.

I would agree with offred that as long as you know you are doing no wrong it OS ok. But the evidence doesn't support that. People who think they are doing no wrong can still hurt their partners deeply.

Oh Cogito I think that is so sad. It is that kind of view that has ruined good. That spelled the end of a completely platonic friendship. friendships since I was a teenager.

I was best friends with a boy at school. When nasty people kept insisting their must be more to it we ended up distancing ourselves to avoid rumers.

Then there was another boy, who as it happens was gay. When we were out together we still got nudged and winked at.

Then there was the time when I was first dating my husband when I was pulled aside by a girl who said my bf was making a move on him because that had been talking and laughing together for a while. I met dh through her and at that point he knew her better than me and it was completely platonic. Those conclusions people jump to because girls and boys can't possibly be friends.

It's rubbish cog because if it were true bisexual people would not be able to have any friendships at all.

Self-awareness is key to any relationship with anyone.

That first para should read.

Oh cogito I find that so sad. It is that kind of view that has ruined good friendships since I was a teenager..

And the "that spelled the end of a good completely platonic friendship" should have been at the end of the second para.

Bloody phone.

I once had a female work colleague threaten to 'throw a bucket of cold water' over me and a male colleague when we were sat together having an in depth conversation and a few laughs. We just got on really wel, same sense of humourl and felt really comfortable in each others company and not much was out of bounds in our conversations, granted. But he was the sort of man that all the women loved - almost like one of us iykwim and l just think...

yeah - she was just a jealous shit stirrer too.

I don't think it is necessarily thinking you are doing nothing wrong that is important, because obviously people can be deluded, it is the reasoning by a person who is self aware that they aren't doing anything wrong or where they might end up doing something wrong. E.g. It is irrational (he knows it is) for my dh to have been upset at me being round at a man's house till 4am but not give it a second thought when I'm at a woman's house till the same time or even when I've slept over there if the only reason is the friend's gender.

But it isn't that irrational is it? On the, admittedly big, assumption you are straight there would be almost no chance of a drunken indescretion at a woman's house but there might be at a man's.

I realise I am contradicting myself but if I was clear on this I wouldn't have started the thread.

Sudaname as long as that story doesn't end with... And that guy is now my husband. It is a good story and very fitting.

My ex had an emotional affair, the messages "Good Morning Babe xx" and "Good night babe xxx" everyday were a big clue to that EA, along with the 10 texts a day in between.

Theres a line that is crossed and that was very much it.

Except that I'm bisexual and my female friend is too (he knows this) and even excluding that if you were heterosexual a. That doesn't mean you are attracted to every man, b. doesn't mean you would be so weak as to sleep with/snog every man you were attracted to and c. It is up to you to choose how you behave not your partner to dictate what you are allowed to do.

..and that guy is now my husband.

Just kidding.

I am far from convinced re EAs. After all, what if you have a same sex friend whom you are very close to, spend time with, and discuss a lot with that you may not with your partner? Is that also an EA, even if you are heterosexual?

As for male/female platonic friendships, I do think there is a difference between an opposite sex friend that you had pre marriage/serious relationship and one that you made post marriage. I would be suspicious of the latter because the natural reaction, when you meet someone interesting, is to invite them to your house and introduce them to your family, with their partner, if they have one. On the other hand, a platonic friend that you have had for years is hardly a threat to a marriage and, when married people try to stop their partners seeing old platonic friends, I think they are being very controlling and risking their marriages.

You have to let your partner have the freedom to make their own choices. I was upset that my dh had been secretly meeting this woman he had a (serious) crush on in the pub because it was kept deliberately secret several times, not because I thought he was cheating but because he was actively hiding it and that is disrespectful. Honesty is the other thing that is key to friendships, it isn't an excuse to say you downplay or keep things secret because your partner might be upset, if you have confidence in yourself, your feelings and your behaviour then their upset, though real no doubt, would be irrational.

And I'm not sure the introducing to family thing is accurate either. I think if you normally do but don't for specific friends then maybe but I see my friends as mine (and always have) there are some I don't think it is appropriate for my children to meet and I wouldn't expect my husband to have to like or enjoy spending time with my friends because we are quite different in the kinds of friendships we have and I know he would not like many of my friends, not would I really want him to. I don't believe I became one half of one person when I married. I'm still a person in my own right, so is he.

And ultimately I think people are going to be upset by the things their close partners do sometimes but the judgement about whether that thing should be done or not has to be made outside of that upset.

Offred,

Naturally you are a person in your own right and I am not suggesting that you only ever meet friends as a couple. In fact, it is the case that I have friends that I meet quite regularly on my own and only occasionally meet up as couples/families. I cannot think of one friend that I have, though, that I would have not introduced to my wife at least once (except for some workey semi friends, but they are not real friends in the true sense of the word). What you describe in your post of 10:42 sounds very unhealthy to me. What kind of "friend" would be "inappropriate" to introduce to your children?

Being a person in your own right is one thing but having friends who you know your partner would actively dislike (as opposed to not find particularly interesting...I have a few friends like that) is a bit strange (IMO).

Ones that have messy lives, take drugs or have chaotic untreated/poorly controlled mental health problems for a start!

Why is it strange to have friends your partner wouldn't like (different to actively dislike)? I have a few, dh has met them, he knows them, he would socialise with them if necessary but he finds them stressful. I like them and I equally find many of his friends stressful but both of us will socialise with each other's friends when it is necessary and do our best to be pleasant and happy. We've just been down to visit my sis and his friends in London, I find those friends v. Stressful apart from one couple but it is important he sees them and I don't ruin it, he comes to family birthday parties of my friends' children because it is important to me. We are just different people with different friends (for the most part).

Yes Offred l agree. My first DH was very possesive,controlling, suspicious etc. but l wouldnt change my ways with speaking to and being friendly to other men. Lead to no end of rows and eventually violence. Was the main reasons l left him in the end as its like having a wet blanket over your shoulders all the time.
My now DH OTOH is often on the other side of the pub completely non plussed while l am stood at the bar having a right good laugh with one of or a group of his mates.

There is definitely a connection between behaviour and which one is my ex and which one is current !

That was to your 10:47 post btw Offred

and his mates are now my mates aswell btw - was just trying to signify 'male' really, not 'his' and 'mine' !

I think it is necessary to understand I am coming from a place where hetero-monogamy is not something that must be protected at all costs. On the plus side that gives any partner of mine confidence that I'm with them because I want to be. I'm also very committed to my marriage.