"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's November 2012, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread <a class="break-all" href="http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/440839-but-we-took-you-to-stately-homes-a-thread-for" target="_blank">here (December 2007)</a>

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn?t have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

Follow up to pages first thread:

I?m sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don?t claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

I have cut and pasted this because I think it is fab. Just in case anyone misses the link.

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

Well I must admit I do think mine are a tad over involved and don't seem to respect that they are now all part of a couple and may like time alone.
I do find it hard to separate arseholeness and normal parental behaviour.
I also get stroppy with the sheer amount spent on presents for pil but maybe if you have nice parents you buy them nice things

Thanks dont nice to know I'm not alone

Well if I wasn't divorced. I'd still like time alone and I only bought something small generally for my parents. But a friend at work has a very close family and they live in each others pockets. Maybe I'm too warped from my past, but that would be too much for me. Especially if it was my in laws

Do you also struggle with visitors too or is that just me?
I like my own space and some peace and quiet.
It could just be that I lived on my own a long time.
I do like visitors if invited but find overnight guests too intrusive.
Pil live away so have to stay and I find it overwhelming.
Even their stupid flannels hung on the side of my bath do my head in and all the eating annoys me even though I like my food.
I just find it all too intrusive.
God I'm nuts aren't I

I call myself a hermit. I cannot be bothered to make an effort with friendships. I'm on my own most nights and like it that way. I like living alone with the kids and worry that living with someone again would annoy me

But and it's a big but, I think my low self esteem and confidence from my childhood, has fuelled my current life style and I'm now used to it iyswim? Does that make any sense at all? It's difficult to fully untangle it all tbh.

I really identify with all that. I don't like overnight visitors or unexpected guests. I like being on my own. I was so self sufficient as a child (cooked most of my own meals from age 9 & got myself up for school & caught 2 buses alone across Birmingham from age 8 while parents slept off the booze) & can't remember anyone EVER playing with me. I remember being bought board games for Christmas for 2 or more players but no one being willing to play them with me. I have to make a huge effort to play with my kids as it feels so unnatural. Does anyone else feel like that?

Yes I know what you mean and I do get irritated by dh at times but luckily he works shifts do get my time alone with kids too.
I was happy alone too and could never understand why people were lonely.
I became pregnant at 16 to get away and create my own family but that obviously went wrong.

Yes playing with my kids bores me rigid. I prefer to do fun activities together which I am happy to join in with.
I did a play therapy course today for work and they spoke about the importance of touch for children and asked how we'd feel if we'd never been touched or hugged as kids.
I had to tell the truth just to see his face.

I do hug and kiss my DCs a lot but I find the effort of trying to play with them, beyond me a lot of the time. I put it down to the exhaustion of being a lone parent but I also battle with depression. I came off ADs a year ago but I've been feeling so low lately I'm beginning to question whether I need to go back to the GP. It's like wading through treacle at the moment and I'm not praising my kids at all lately.

My mum and dad were never interested in how I was getting along at School or encouraging me. I didn't do great at my GCSEs and I find I have to force myself to do the opposite with my DCs.

It's all so hard, isn't it? And the extra guilt when I upset my children or handle things wrong or if I feel my behaviour is mimicking my upbringing, it all hits me and then I feel awful and feel like I'm failing my own children. I try so hard to be the opposite of my parents but it sneaks out sometimes.

Maybe that's why I like being alone. Life is hard enough already. Marriage (for me) was hard work. It's so peaceful at night here and I need that.

Yes it's an added parenting pressure we do t need, I'm the same with that. I'm very tactile with my children too and would do anything for them.
I was never encouraged either. I was a good dancer and wanted to entertain but got ignored apart from paying for lessons.
My milk teeth were black stumps at 6 because of no encouragement to care for them. My favoured sisters were the same actually so not all rosy for the chosen ones.
I also suffer bouts if depression which I fight off periodically and I comfort eat too.

I've always been extremely affectionate to them & hug & kiss them & tell them I love them every day but it's really engaging in play that's so difficult. It's hard to bake with your kids when no one ever did it with you!!

I'm a little overcome.

I thought was just me that struggled with playing. Put it down to being shut up for months at a time, never stepping outsside, living in a hellhole, day in, day out with a child that went from 6m - 3yo.

We played today, had a right laugh, but that's so rare. I really do need to make more time to just be silly with him.

I struggle with friends too, do better now that I'm older, but as a kid, was often isolated and alone. Dunno why, I never harmed a soul.

Negative programming? From our parents?

Now my son struggles to make friends, I'm unconvinced that this village is the best place for us. The only thing I love about living here is the house, and my neighbours. The rest of it? Pah! I need to think about moving, but I don't earn enough to pass refs. Have no savings at all,so am stuck for the minute.

Life will find a way. I have to remain hopeful.

I just ordered 3 games from Amazon to play with them. I will break the cycle ...... I will break the cycle!!

Yes let's all try to do that. Especially over Xmas.

There is loads of stuff you can do with your kids that doesn't cost much.
Walks..trips to parks.
Some really easy recipes on MN for cakes and biscuits you could make together.
Easy Xmas decs...paper chains etc.
Ikea have a gingerbread house kit for under £3 ATM. That's always good fun.
My kids love drawing and colouring so we spend time doing that but no, it doesn't come naturally to me at all.
I cannot remember my mum ever playing with us. Ever. We played board games and cards as I got older but that was more for their pleasure not ours iyswim?

I just got a gingerbread house ready for later funnily enough. I find baking and craft ok tbh it's board games I loathe and think soft play is for coffee and papers ha ha
It's easy with a girl too as you can do nails and stuff . I'm even suffering one direction in April

Ha!
I dont do soft play.
Ds2 is 4.5 and has never even been to one! :)
Neither if mine are that into board games tbh.
Ds1 has got battleships for Xmas so that may change though....
Ds1 is making a gingerbread house at shcool this year so I am not doing bothering...am hoping to make some. Cakes/mince pies etc once they break up.
One direction? You are a great mum!! :)

It's interesting to hear you talk about preferring to be alone, and having a hard time playing and making friends. Because that describes what my life was like, until about 2 years ago when I left my abusive ex-h, realised that I had modelled my parents' relationship (and didn't feel worthy of better treatment from ex because of the way they treated me with neglect and contempt), and started making some serious changes about how I thought and behaved.

Now the pendulum has swung the other way, and I am an outgoing and cheerful person who likes to go out and socialise, other people find me very engaging, I am always out dancing or socialising or doing all sorts of activities with people (when before I would always be alone). And I am even learning how to play with kids, which is something that used to make me nervous and confused before (I have none of my own).

So I guess what I wanted to contribute here is that you can turn it around, if your isolation and reserve are something you feel you want to change.

hot damn I'm a bit of a party animal myself love drinking and socialising its just my home I like to myself iykwim. It's my safe haven and I'm always glad to see the back of visitors lol

I'm at a soft play right now on their wifi But they're off playing without me

N/C as this is identifying - I've posted on and off here before, so some may recognise the background.

I've been non-contact with my parents for nearly two years; after they sided with my ex during and after out divorce. Very toxic relationship for a while and much better of without contact. We live several huindrend miles apart, so not difficult to achieve.

I have had contact with them twice in the last 12 months - once at my neices christening when we exchanged polite greetings only, and a short phone call a couple of weeks ago engineered by my elderly gran who is determined to heal the rift.

An envelope arrived today with my Dads handwritting on it - addressed to Ms SlipperyIce. I am not a Ms, never have been - I have kept my former married name and am known as Mrs, which they have previously written on envelopes addressed to me. The only thing that has changed since the last time they wrote is that my ex has remarried - and my parents hosted my ex and his DW during their honeymoon.

So, inside the envelope is another envelope, with the words do not open until Christmas Day emblazoned on it.

Now what?

Open it.
They don't get to tell you what to do anymore x

I'd open it then shred it.

Slipperyice

Was this hand delivered or posted to you?.

Abusive parents like yours often side with abusive types and do meet with them. It is not altogether unsurprising that they sided with your ex H; they met a kindred spirit in him.

Yes open it or you will drive you mad. What is it with these parents siding with our exes. Mine nearly killed me but she thinks he's a great bloke.