"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's November 2012, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread <a class="break-all" href="http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/440839-but-we-took-you-to-stately-homes-a-thread-for" target="_blank">here (December 2007)</a>

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn?t have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

Follow up to pages first thread:

I?m sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don?t claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

I have cut and pasted this because I think it is fab. Just in case anyone misses the link.

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

Hi all hope you don't mind another joining. Have been lurking on this thread and doing a fair bit of reading (I have the book about when you and your mother can't be friends, also one called enough about you let's talk about me - you get the idea).

Currently struggling with my Mum's relationship to my DD's as I recognise it says a lot about my relationship with her! She is staying with us for Christmas.

She is not unpleasant to them, just a bit distant and does not take much of an interest in them - she likes it if they show her affection, but does not want to really spend time doing anything much with them unless it's on her terms - so we went out for afternoon tea yesterday and that was okay, and she will sit with them and watch TV but she wouldn't dream of spending time doing a jigsaw with them or reading to them or whatever that they might be interested in. She never asks them questions about their friends or what they are doing in school - but she will tell them all about her life (she lives in France) and French customs or whatever and expects them to be interested.

She has a new partner and spends all her time talking about him, what he likes, doesn't like, what his interests are etc. She has been obsessed with finding some little present to take home for him but I know she has bought nothing for me or my DH and only managed to buy something for the girls with my help.

Since my Dad died last year she has really changed, she was depressed and suicidal for a while and extremely needy, now she has found this whole new life and circle of friends, lost loads of weight, started drinking and smoking and going out all the time - in a way I admire her, she has pulled herself together and I know it's been hard but it's also been hard for me losing my lovely Dad and I feel that has barely been acknowledged. It's hard for me hearing how smitten she is with this new man, although I am happy for her IYSWIM.

I guess it all just brings it home how self centred she is. She and I were good friends when I was younger but I realise now that again it was only on her terms - so we could go shopping or out for lunch or whatever but she would never have taken me swimming or to the park (that was for my Dad to do). She was happy when I was doing well at school or whatever but it was all about reflected glory. She had a terrible temper and was often ill and I was quite scared of her, she used to shout at me and my Dad was something of an enabler I think.

I am having difficulties with my DH (which she knows something about but not everything) and while she is sympathetic to a degree she never offers practical support, or tells me how well I am coping, or that I am a good Mum or anything (although she always likes to tell me how hard it was for her when I was a child and my Dad worked away from home and she had to cope on her own and blah blah blah...)

At times I wish I could disown her! But she is my only living relative and vice versa. I dread her becoming ill because she lives abroad and I know from experience when my Dad was ill how difficult that can be.

Anyway sorry this is an awfully long self indulgent ramble. Thanks for listening if you got this far!

Welcome teeny! I'm so far down the road with my parents now that I wish they lived in France! Believe it or not - the fact that she's geographically distant (as well as emotionally) means that at least she can't interfere with your daily life. You sound as if you still crave her attention but she will never change & give it freely, she cares only for herself & what she wants. It's really hard to accept that & let go.

So.
For some of Dhs family who we haven't seen for nearly 3 tears coming to mils on fridAy..the same days as dads hospital appt.
I rang my sis and explained I would really like to see them and askedmifnshe could take dad to the appt.
Fully expected her to tell me to get lost, it she didn't
She is taking him! I can go to pils and see people I like!
So, why on earth am I crippled with guilt now?
:(

hotdamn - just to reply I don't know really, I guess I might say I hope you're well but also I'd not be trying to initiate a relationship again, more like just a hello in as neutral way as possible. Chances of her initiating contact are very slim though so its hard to speculate I guess. But yes not slotting in with the denial at the same time that's very important. It's all very well to imagine but the reality I'm sure is really hard and that fear of being sucked back in. NC is definitely easier for me.

Sorry to hear what a hard time people are having. Also that it can be hard to enjoy the nice things without guilt - don't feel guilty badvocsanta!

jaffacake how hard for you. There's no easy answer - could you get a bit of counselling at all to talk it over?

teenyweeny - sorry to hear you're getting no support and it sounds tough with your mum. As others said maybe easier in a way that she does live in france

The guilt is ingrained in me I'm afraid. I've posted this before but it was quite a while ago and is such a perfect example of her behaviour that I think it's worth posting again.
18 years ago my Dad, to whom I was very close, was dying of cancer. He was at home, and we were taking it in turns to be with him in the bedroom. The dr came and said it would be his last day, so we called his sisters etc to come and say goodbye. My sister couldn't bear to watch him going through more prodding and poking so she asked me to be with him while the dr catheterised him.
When the dr said he was going to die within the next hour my mum decided to take a sleeping tablet and go to bed in the next room, saying she was exhausted after sitting up with him all night, and off she went.
I got into bed with my dad, and talked to him about holidays and stuff we'd done etc, and then he opened his eyes (he had been unconscious) and looked at me...he knew I was with him, and then he slipped away. But...when his breathing changed and the dr said this was it, I was faced with the choice of going to try and rouse my mum who wa sin a drug induced sleep, or stay with him...I chose to stay. He died in my arms, and then I went to wake her. She went mental, saying I had stolen her job, it should have been her with him at the end, how could I do it to her etc etc...and yet she had deliberately taken sleeping tabs (which she had never touched in her life). She has never forgiven me for that, never, and holds it against me to this day. And yet, if I had gone to wake her from her stupid self imposed sleep he would have died all alone.
I had to have counselling to deal with the initial guilt, but it settled deeper than that, and I have never been able to shake it.

I would hate to be so evil.

Patches, you did a beautiful thing for your dad, and you know it.

I'd rather my DS with me at the end than anyone else.

Your mother CHOSE to exclude herself, but also to blame you for the guilt SHE feels.

Let her. She has to answer for her actions in that, you have nothing to answer for.

Patches I am so so sorry. Your mother acted like a shithead. What a completely awful choice to have to make.

For what it's worth, you can't make a perfect choice in an imperfect situation. She put you in an imperfect situation and you did the best you could for your dad. I don't know if it means anything to hear a stranger say this, but I would have done exactly the same. I think anyone would.

jaffacake2 what a difficult situation for you to be in. And of course you feel obliged to look after her because you are NOT your mother, because you are a kind and caring person.

Regarding caring for her, has she been assessed by SS? Sorry if a stupid/naive question.

As to her knowing about the awful things that happened to you, I'm so sorry, I don't know what could possibly bring you peace - maybe something to work out through counselling. But www.napac.org.uk/ is a good place to look for some resources to start with.

teenyweenytadpole welcome to the thread. My dad does sits with my brother's DCs (who are primary age) and talks about things that interest him, like insurance, and doesn't ask them about school, or have the patience to play with them. So I sympathise.

Though (and I don't know if this is any comfort or will just be annoying, apologies if the latter) your DCs might like hearing about her life in France. What I'm saying, if badly expressed, is remember they're not going to react to her the way that you do, or be as affected by it in the same way, does that make sense? For you, it's another example of her being horrible and shit. For them, it's granny talking a lot about France. Apologies if this isn't remotely helpful...

Sorry to hear you are having problems with DH as well. And you sound like a bloody good mum to me.

Badvocsanta sorry you feel guilty, hope you managed to shake it off and enjoy the time with DH's family.

Am wondering what the chuffing hell I was thinking when I convinced myself the childhood stuff was over and done with, and we should move 10 minutes down the road from my parents to be near them when we have kids. Because my mum will help. And, you know, I can just totally play happy families.

I'll tell you the one about me trying to talk to her last week, and her suddenly announcing she had an xmas present for me and asking what DH would like (er, bit late?) another time.

p.s. right there is an example of why it's hard to rationalise to yourself that it really is okay to feel shitty. Because everything sounds okay in isolation. I'm sure it must sound like first-world problems that, when I tried to talk to her, she suddenly wants to know what DH wants for xmas. Or, you know, petty.

But petty things add up.

jessjess I recognize that - feeling like the stuff we complain about is petty, but that's because it's impossible to explain that each minor thing is evidence of the key issue. Which is that they didn't provide us with the love we deserved as children. Every time they treat us badly it resonates with that original pain, I think.

Bit heavy to say that in everyday life though! Whether to outsiders or to our family. So we fix on the small things, and then beat ourselves up for being petty.

It's like trying to nail jelly to the wall sometimes. I just hang on to the one thing I've got clear, which is that I didn't deserve to be treated that badly, and that it was wrong for them to do it. Sometimes all I can do is to retreat to that until things get a bit clearer.

And by the way, the whistling thing was not ok. You are sane!

Thread tital in avtive threads "best christmas childhood memory" and i couldnt breath :(

Crying now I hate xmas.

I have been blindsided by my Mum. She has been uncharacteristically generous.

Though I am grateful I am also very nervous as to why and what she has planned. I wish I weren't so cynical!

AnAirOfHopeInAManger (((big big hugs))) I'm so sorry that has upset you so. What would help? Do you want to just have a bit of a cry and a rant, or is there anything we can say that might help even just a tiny bit?

Emandlu sorry you feel nervous. Don't blame you being cynical.

fresh further to what you said, the way individual things sound petty makes it easier for the parents to say it is petty or didn't happen. It's like when people are stalked - things can sound petty in isolation if you don't look at the context, the history and the bigger picture.

And of course none of this is petty. And you are right: you didn't deserve it, and they were wrong to do it, and it really is that simple. (And thanks re the whistling thing.)

Have been feeling really weird and detached from everything; had a minor panic attack doing last-minute panic food shop earlier. Planning to put the tree up tomorrow (left it to the last minute as we have a kitten who is bound to demolish it) and have some nice cheese and Bailey's and stuff so hopefully can get into a better frame of mind.

Thank you for everyone who answered about the whistling thing. Was shocked to find that, as an adult, my idea of normal still isn't, and I'm still finding holes in it.

Hi could anyone lend me an ear? i am so in need of someone to talk to and have been directed to this thread.

Hi CambridgeBlue, lots of friendly understanding ears here...

I for one need to get some sleep but will reply in the morning. Please please talk away.

I am going to post anyway as am feeling pretty desperate, I can't sleep and just feel sick. I know I sound dramatic but my difficult relationship with my mother seems about to come to a head - on Christmas Day :(

There is so much history, I will try to keep it brief but it's very relevant. My DM has not had the easiest of lives - she hints at abuse as a child but I don't know the details. Then when I was about 10 we lost my sister in an accident. This led to my parents splitting up and my mother later married a man who turned out to be extremely emotionally abusive. She finally divorced him many years later and is now married once more to a very kind man - on the face of it she has everything she wants(deserves?) but the past has left its scars in that she is a very difficult, self-centred person. She is well-meaning I think but everything is about her and this makes her very hard to deal with.

I have put up with a lot of unreasonable behaviour over the years, as have other people, but I have always tried to give he the benefit of the doubt due to the past. It is getting harder and harder though and I can see a showdown approaching, I finally have the courage to tell her how I feel but now she has forced my hand by picking a fight about something trivial today.

We have to go and spend Xmas Day at her house but I am currently so annoyed with her I don't feel able to smile and be pleasant as I normally would - and my DH who has witnessed her behaviour and its effect on me for many years is even less likely to hold his tongue. But not going is just not an option - I can't ruin Xmas Day for the rest of my family, especially my DD who is so looking forward to it. Some of the most awful Xmases we had when I was younger were when my mum was married to the evil abusive bloke and I can't bear for my DD to have unhappy memories of a Xmas where everyone's shouting and upset as I do :(

I just don't know what to do. If I say anything to my mum there will be massive scenes, if I don't DH or I are likely to explode and the result will be the same. I can't believe she has chosen 2 days before Xmas to have a go at me - the only person who has always stood by her :(

Please, if anyone's reading - what the hell do I do?

CambridgeBlue am still here, though am off to bed in a sec (wasn't sure how long you'd take to post and wanted to warn you so you didn't feel crappy if you posted and then got silence).

Nobody on this thread will think you are being overly dramatic. Promise.

Sorry to hear about what you have had to put up with. There are a lot of people with narcissistic mothers on this thread and I am sure some of them will be along to advise in due course.

What about finding an excuse not to go? It really doesn't sound like you want to. Could your DH develop a sudden illness?

Please bear in mind that your DD would get over it. You say you feel bad as she is looking forward to it, but it's easy to assume wrongly about what kids think and how they will react. Sounds like your feelings of guilt and obligation towards your mother are making you feel guilty about DD too when she might be really matter-of-fact about it, I honestly think she would get over it so long as you make it clear it's not her fault you're not going, iyswim.

What does your DH think? It sounds like he is on her side. As you are feeling so conflicted and guilty, could you ask him to please decide for you and therefore absolve you of having to decide?

And what about the man your mother is married to now? Is he any help?

You are NOT going to ruin Xmas for anyone, whatever decision you make. You're putting a lot of guilt and emotional weight into this. But xmas isn't either ruined or not. It's either at your mother's or not; do you see what I'm saying?

What if you spent it at home and DD visited her for a bit? Would that work?

Thank you so much for replying. I think I need to make a decision about what to do in the cold light of day because it's late and I'm upset. Neither DH or I really want to go - we have to stay over as it's a 2 hour drive and we then go on to my Dad's the next day so it's not as though we can just pop in for a few hours. But if we don't it will cause an enormous row and upset for everyone. I think going and putting on a brave face is the only way but I hate the idea and don't see why I should have to :(

Shit, typo in my post, sorry, I meant to say it sounds like DH is on YOUR side! Not hers! Got confused!

You are right, you shouldn't have to and it sucks that you may end up doing so. Hugs to you. Hope DH can at least talk it through with you and make you feel you're not alone in the decision.

I thought that was what you meant! I think we have to just make the best of this for everyone's sake and then raise the issue with my mother afterwards but I hate doing it that way because being all sweetness and light at the time and then coming out with accusations later is one of her worst tricks :(

Please don't feel you have to reply again - go to bed but thanks for listening :)

Hope you can get some sleep hon

Hi Cambridge

If your mother is deeply self-centred, it won't matter when and if you raise the issue with her : she won't accept any wrong, or your pov.

It is for you to decide what kind of a relationship you want to continue with her in those circumstances, up to and including whether you want to spend Christmas with her.

Oh, and the fact that she is cruel to you when you're the one person who has stood by her is precisely because she thinks she can do what she wants to those closest to her. Rather than realizing that those are the people she should cherish the most... Self-centred people, dysfunctional parents, see others as tools for their own ends, rather than as people in their own right.

And the fact that this is 2 days before Christmas is no coincidence either: it's a power play, since you're "stuck" going at hers (you're really not, actually), she can say whatever she wants to you, and you're going to "have" to accept it since there is no option for you to make a scene that would ruin Christmas (...whereas actually, you are perfectly in your rights to choose whatever Christmas you want).

Marking my place, to read later.
My dh comes from a toxic family, but he accepts the awful ways in which they treat him, but then takes his upset out on me by swearing and being extremely moody and withdrawn after they have phoned or texted

I'm estranged from pil and many of the other il due to the way they have behaved, especially in regards to my 9yo dd from a prev relationship and towards my dh & other dc.

They are so incredibly vile, that they managed to ruin 2 of my youngest dcs homecoming after birth, my 2yo birthday, many christmasses, my dhs birthday and even my late bros birthday, as well as mothers day

Now they don't see him very often or me & dc atall, they manipulate and guilt trip him by phone almost everyday, mostly sil egged on by mil and then sometimes mil.

He was beaten by fil as a child, ive only come to know this 8yrs after being with dh
I am %99 he suffers from depression as a result but he will not agree to seeking help

Everytime they phone him, he goes all moody, depressive (sometimes for days) and is very, very antisocial at times, they have even made him cry.

I want to tell them all to f off and leave him the feck alone, but he is told me in no uncertain terms if i do he will leave-says he loves them
But all they do is treat him like a piece of shit, sometimes i feel like we are fighting and losing battle.
I'm dreading his moods over christmas or the possible threats he is going to get for not seeing them on xmas day.

It has got to the point now where he lies if theyve text or phoned just to stop me from getting angry with them.
He is turning into a liar and a not very nice person because of the stress and upset they put him under.

I love him so much, but at times he is hard to live with...but there isn't much i can so whilst he continues to contact and be contacted by them
Just hoping they don't ruin our christmas this year

Hi Cambridge

This time of year is especially hard in situations like ours - there is so much guilt and sense of duty when it should be a carefree time, full of happiness. I am spending xmas with just my dc and dp and I am so looking forward to it. I usually have my mother up for a few days at xmas, but it is always preceeded by the charade of her saying she doesn't want to come, me begging her not to spend it alone, her saying she'd love to come, then she doesn't want to come...the whole martyr thing. I asked her again this year, and got the usual 'Oh no, I'll spend it alone, just me by myself', and then she came up for my birthday and totally ruined it and so I took the decision not to ask her again for xmas and I stuck to it. Dp even said to me last night, 2 weeks after my birthday incident, that she has really got to me this time and it's true, and I will not have another ruined occasion. Ruining my birthday was one thing, but xmas which affects the kids is not going to happen.

I know lying is not a great thing but needs must and all that, and for self preservation's sake could you not develop car trouble for instance? I so feel for you, that sense of dread, and anger, and also (if you're like me) annoyance at yourself for not having the strength to just say no.

Whatever you decide I wish you a happy Christmas.

x

Pumpkin...I can so understand how your DHs family affect him and I feel for you for having to cope with it. I have said before that my mother is the only person and creates the only situations where I drink. I mean I'll have a drink with dinner and if I go out normally, but I actually reach for the bottle when she is here and when she leaves. The effect on me is profound, but unlike your dh I will rant and rave TO the dc and dp and not AT them IYSWIM, and get it out of my system. They don't have to say anything or offer any solutions, just let me vent and get it out of my system.

It's horrendous what parents can do to their kids isn't it? Even as adults. I wish you well.

So hard isnt it ?
I have been at casualty with mum as she had a fall at her sheltered accommadation and I am the first contact to get rung.
Was in casualty till 3 am,just phoned and will need to collect her this pm
Tired and sad. Yet somehow this little old lady looked so vulnerable lying there.
I know I have forgiven her for not protecting me as a child. With all her neglect she is my mum and I love her.
Peace has come
Happy Christmas to you all and I hope that you find resolution in your hearts and minds.