"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's November 2012, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread <a class="break-all" href="http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/440839-but-we-took-you-to-stately-homes-a-thread-for" target="_blank">here (December 2007)</a>

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn?t have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

Follow up to pages first thread:

I?m sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don?t claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

I have cut and pasted this because I think it is fab. Just in case anyone misses the link.

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

I was typing on my phone earlier but I didn't go no contact with my Dad until he lost it with me at Easter and sent me the most abusive texts and e-mails. He lost it over a misunderstanding and I suddenly realised that I couldn't do this any more. To apologise for all wrongs, whether my fault or not and 'fix' things as I had always previously done to keep Mum happy.

I still have this habit of thinking everything is my fault and apologising. But not with Dad. Life is easier without seeing him tbh. But it's taken years to get to this stage, my brothers have also put me under pressure to fix things too. I finally do not care what my family think or others. But I have realised I cannot talk to anyone about this, unless they understand toxic families. As demonstrated by my rant below the other day

I read: "We'll if it is that, I will be dead before you will" with an open mouth. Unbelievable.

It never fails to sadden me when I come back to this thread and see new posters (welcome), as well as updates with yet more horrendous stories - the sheer amount of under-the-radar abuse out there is just unreal. I honestly am at the point where I think a light needs to be shone on this. For every embarrassed, awkward lie we tell to protect ourselves, our loved ones and these hideous people, the taboo is perpetuated. People believe in wicked stepmothers, no one believes in wicked mothers until they see it first-hand. I feel a campaign coming on!

baubles my FIL's favourite command is 'fix this'. Enabler to the end, his wife's whims are what we all have to live by. He minimises her threats and exaggerates her upset. He has made his choices and expects his children, their partners, their partners families and friends to do the same - to collude in this lie that MIL is mentally sound and a lovely human being. It's their lie, not mine. And DH is blamed for his mother's behaviour (a strange kind of acknowledgement!) because he is unable to 'fix' her. It makes me so, so angry and sad.

I know.
I know.
She just rang on the pretence of asking how my ds2 is who has been really poorly and - of course - eventually she gets round to the real reason she has rung...my dad has to have an endoscopy on 28th.
"I will have to find someone to take him due to him being sedated"
Of course I will take him! Why can't she just ask like a normal person!?
Sigh.

Thanks for accepting me into the thread everyone. Sorry not to reply to all the posts.

Bedtime1 - I'm the same as you. Sometimes I push it all to the back of my mind and sometimes it's all I can think about.

Tangerinefeathers - your mum sounds like a charmer and all. Sorry to hear that. I think you are right about my mother being worse in some ways. I find myself harbouring limited resentment towards my dad as I know why he is the way he is. Awful childhood which isn't an excuse, but it is a reason I can comprehend. I can't comprehend why my mother just stuck her fingers in her ears and went "la la la" when things were bad. As you say, it's how she makes it work for her - and only her.

The horrible irony is that when I do try to bring any of this up, I immediately feel guilty for upsetting her and want to apologise, just as I feel I want to apologise now for going on about myself on here. I won't always post this much crap about myself, just trying to introduce things I guess. I'm not sure what good it would do if I did break through her defences. I can't go back in time and change things.

Her ability to delude herself really is amazing. I took an overdose when I was 15 (my parents went home while I was having my stomach pumped which is the worst thing they ever did) and I subsequently overheard her on the phone to a friend saying she'd had no idea I was unhappy.

DontstepontheBaubles - I have never spoken to anyone else whose friends disliked phoning their house. I'm sorry it was the same for you. I also think everything is my fault and apologise constantly.

I'm not going NC because I don't know most of my father's family and am estranged from a lot of my mother's relatives (long story) so my parents, brother, SIL and their kids are kind of it. I stopped speaking to my parents for a long time in my 20s while in an abusive relationship (not with DH, who is wonderful). Then I somehow pushed everything to the back of my mind, convinced myself I could have a relationship with my parents now - that they are different people to my parents then - but it's not easy. DH's family are nice but they're not amazingly close.

Midwife - I think some people just don't understand that other families aren't as functional as theirs. I am estranged from various relatives including my gran and some people think I'm horrible for never visiting her as they haven't got past the fact it would be horrible if they didn't visit their perfectly nice, non-toxic grandmothers, so they can't see past that.

Sometimes I think maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill and my parents are just normal parents who made the odd mistake. It can get really hard to believe it's you, and not the whole world, that is wrong.

Patches - my god your mother says exactly the same things as mine! Reading your posts is like reading about my mother, it really is. And the stuff with the presents....the same. Even sounds like she has the same tone of voice! Awful.

I really was terrified of mine and the effect she could have on me.

I have minimal contact with mine though, and have done for 12 years, thank god. Have saved my daughters from all this. Have stress-free Christmases, unlike my poor brothers. Have the freedom to live my life and don't have all that anxiety, migraines etc any more....lovely. I dread the day she gets ill or starts dying though as I will not know what to do.

Good to read this thread and share, really good.

Favourite narc sayings:

WHY CAN'T YOU TAKE A JOKE?

DON'T BE SO SENSITIVE

WHO'S HAVING A SENSE OF HUMOUR FAILURE?

Is it just me or do others that don't know exactly what your parent is really like think they are wonderful . Also my mother is always telling me about situations where people have said what a lovely women she is or similar . In my experience people just don't say stuff like that to your face?

Haha, Iman - in our case it's like this:

FIL: how can you not see how wonderful your mother is? She routinely gets praise from colleagues about how good she is. Just the other day someone told her how sensible and level headed she is.
DH: I'm not disputing what she is like at her work, but...

Me (thinking): I bet he heard all of this from MIL...!

My xfamily again

Talked to eldest sister about xmas. She asked if sil had got my kids gifts i said i didnt know but i hope not as i cant be aresed to send stuff back but i will and i have nothing for her child. I told her my children dont know i have a brother or they have another cosin

They meet at my mums 70th but i told them he was someone Nanny knows. My brother was not there.

My sister told me i should be ashamed of myself for lieing to my children. I told her as far as im concerned it is not a lie as they dont talk to us and they are not my family.

Way to go for making it my fault that xbrother is abusive twat.

Just cos they had a child makes no difference to me.

I should just cut contact with them all?

I can certainly relate to Iman's earlier comment:-

"Is it just me or do others that don't know exactly what your parent is really like think they are wonderful. Also my mother is always telling me about situations where people have said what a lovely women she is or similar".

My DH thinks his mother to a certain extent can do no wrong but the scales have fallen from his eyes somewhat over the last few years. When you have had a lifetime of such conditioning though (DH has a dominant narcissist for a mother and an enabler narcissist of a dad) it is rather hard to accept that what you have learnt as "normal" over the years is patently not. MIL is very much of the "well I'm a good girl aren't I daddy" school of dysfunctional behaviour, everything has to be done right and precise.

His cousin who really knows absolutely nothing of her true nature has expressed often how lovely he thinks MIL is.

My DH thinks his mother can to a certain extent do no wrong but the scales have fallen a bit from his eyes the last few years. When you have had a lifetime of such conditioning though it is rather hard to accept that what you have learnt as "normal" is patently and absolutely not. His solution is to not dwell on it (out of I think it being too painful along with a splashof denial) but I do talk to him often about his mad as a box of frogs family.

Oooh I've just remembered, I'm going to receive my card from MIL later, oh joy. DH and I always receive separate cards from them, well she because she does all the card writing. What's the betting it will be one from the bottom of her selection box ?.

To everyone

There is a thread that runs through us all. We want to build/have a loving supportive family around us as that is what we have never really had. And this is our achilles heel that our natural family exploit. Last Friday I was at a friend's party. Her and her husband and kids had invited a mixture of single people who knew each other well plus me, hubby and our daughter.

The thing that hit me that hasn't before, is how happy the single people were. They knew each other but talked about adventures, plans, being alone and with others and meeting up together. What I am saying is you dont need your wider family to belong and have people to support you.

Hello all. I posted a couple of months ago, and I've been reading all of your posts So many recurring themes!
My narc mum, who I had been NC with for 4 years, died in October. Having played the illness card for years, she finally did get really ill and her last couple of years were, apparently, ghastly. I have 2 older sisters. The eldest takes the role of the good girl, and took on lots of duties (whilst playing the martyr) although far away. The middle one took on less, but was the scapegoat in the family. I was golden child.
It took me a lot of effort in therapy to detach from mum, but I did it enough to enable me to enjoy my DH and DC's and be properly in relationships with them. I am happier now than I have ever been in my life BUT (there had to be a but..)
My sisters have not spoken to me since just after she died. Our relationships had obv been strained as they were in touch with mum and I wasn't (getting off scot free, apparently ). I helped where I could (cleared out her flat once she'd moved out, saving middle sis from coming from the other side of the country), and offered many times to support them, but was always clear I would not contact her. She never tried to contact me or my DC during my NC. I didn't go to the funeral; sisters didn't want me there and I didn't need to go.
I feel like they are just repeating the classic narc withdrawal of affection in order to get me to toe the line. But now that Mum died there is no 'line' to toe and so I have to wait until they work that out. From conversations with them before she died, I feel as if they were still waiting for thanks or love from Mum, which obviously never came. In fact they told me that she was still saying how terrible it was that she hadn't seen me or my DC before she died (not that she bothered with the DC when we were in contact, and not that she gave a shit about me either) - but of course it was a handy stick to beat my sisters with.
So I'm trying to get on with my life, and mostly succeeding although I still default to feeling 'wrong' sometimes. But sometimes I get so exasperated with them, and I can't imagine what I'll say to them if they do get in touch. I've put up with middle sis's anger at me all my life (and if I hear 'you were the golden child') ONE MORE TIME..
I've said in email to them both that I'd like to have a relationship with them that's free of her, and that I'll listen to them if they'll listen to me. Since when, silence apart from Christmas card from elder sis. Have sent them both cards and small presents.
Sorry, it's a rant, this. I'm just a bit stuck. I can do nothing about this until they're ready to deal with it. But because we're all in such different places I know it's going to take so much painful effort and I wonder whether we can do it.

Alligator - people either think my parents are wonderful or find my dad terrifying. I'm sort of embarrassed when it's the second one, but at least then I feel validated.

Everyone thinks my mum is lovely. It drives me mad. She's a lovely wishy-washy pushover is what she is.

AirOfHope - "lying" is a very strong term. I think you have to find your own ways to interpret your situation and protect your children. Sometimes the truth isn't the best thing.

Dear Fresh

Same place as me. And in a way you and all your sisters victims of the family system that your parents held over you. You are right. If you approach them before they are ready to see then it will not result in positive progress. I get the odd email, that I reply to in friendly tones and then I hear NOTHING for months and months. It is stupid isn't it? But think of it as their way of dealing with things and leave them to it.

My dad is 84 and I do worry about one day attending his funeral when I have not spoken to my sisters for over 2 years. (They both either put the phone down on me or failed to respond to an e mail reply they had originally sent and then sent further nasty letters to me demanding to know why I had not been supportive of my Narc F) Myabe I will save the airfare and donate it to a charity.

It is not easy, but as I said to my therapist-there is no way I am EVER going back to how it was before. I was the people pleaser, going out of my way to support all of my family and when I needed support they kicked me in the teeth. (They got all humpy because I didn't tell them straight away that I had broken my leg. But would it have helped me to tell them?-no as I lived in another country and they were not there and nor did they visit). They also got angry because through my therapist I realised I needed to grieve for my mum that I had lost and not grieved for at the age of five. There was zero empathy for me. And isn't that the hallmark of a dysfunctional family? zero empathy-and silence of course, No honest communication? Keep posting, you have empathy and good communication and that is why you are here.

baytree you're right, we're all victims. But both parents are gone now, and it seems such a waste if we sisters can't overcome this. It means Mum is still the dominant force, which is a pretty good trick when you're dead.

I'm just depressed that we can't get free of it. I'm culpable too, I should have tried harder to break it when she was alive but it was so highly charged once she became ill that it became impossible to discuss her with my sisters. And of course I was challenging the accepted story that she was not to be disagreed with, and I know how threatening that was. I just tried to hold my own lines and have a different relationship with them. Tricky though, it does take two after all.

I'm so grateful for this thread, and for people who get it as you do. It helps remind me that IT'S NOT ME! I have to snap myself out of churning over it, because otherwise I'm not present for DH and DC's. Perhaps I should keep a wet fish about my person so I can slap myself in the face with it regularly!

I agree with Fresh and Baytree regarding siblings seeing the light. They may never do it. I thought my siste had when she was in the throes of breakdown, but since 'getting better' she has simply returned exactly to her position in the family and everything is as was.
Maybe she knows it deep down, but isnt ready to accept it, isnt strong enough or willing to go down that road again. Or maybe she does know but choses to not rock the boat, as it wouldnt benefit her to do so, and she is still reaping the rewards of her position within the family.
There have been a couple of times we have spoken, only briefly, about other things where my mum has been trying to manipulate a situation, and she was in agreement with me. I am pretty sure she wouldnt go completely against a 'you have to assure me you wont say anything' as, whatever the faults she has been given as a result of this chaos, she is pretty good on integrety. The stuff she told about before I do believe she thought she was telling stuff that I was too scared to tell them (she was right, I have always taken a fairly cowardly route regarding them) and in a way I was wrong to have tried to make out it was a misunderstanding, but I wasnt aware enough, or ready for that myself at that point.
Ironically the fact that my sister said I was too scared to tell them, resulted in me being to scared to tell her when she was shouting 'Youre not scared of me are you,' along with accusing stuff about how I had been slagging her off with my sister behind her back. She was fuming and I was shitting it.......

Im still not 100% not scared now. But I am better. I can argue with her in a political way (she doesnt like it and accuses me of attacking her) I can hold my ground a bit better regarding general stuff/beliefs I dont agree with her on (cue cats bum mouth) and I have once told her that she was probably contributing to my dad's breakdown because she was always critical (she turned it to be all about her and later caused a big scene in front of my daughter which resulted in everyone feeling sorry for her about how I was excluding her from a part of my life that has nothing to do with her) And I have managed to side step all conversation about why I havent friended her on Facebook. Also this week I told dP that things were obviously improving because when she made the statement that 'tell DP that she would like him to come to her birthday lunch' (I know he wont) I wasnt filled with the usual panic and fear, just a slight wobble. And I had told him I was too scared to post on here in case she read it, he told me I shouldnt be scared, so long as what I say is true. And if she goes so far as to stalk me, then thats not normal and she should be able to read what I say and understand it.....

Anyone have it where, when you pull narc parent/inlaw up on their behaviour, not only are they always 'shocked' and 'astonished', and say things like 'you are talking about me as if I am a stranger', but also accuse you of judging them? What's a good response? Mine was always that yes, I was judging the behaviour but not the person but this didn't seem to work. Just curious!

Good approach, and one that I try to stick to myself. I don't know that I have any good advice - I did try and tell them in the early days that they need to have a good think about how their behaviour affects other people, and take some responsibility for the results, but all I got was denial, yelling and counter-accusations. Some people don't want to gain self awareness, or are incapable of it.

In July my mil give my dd dairy food which i asked them loads of times not to give her as she was only 6 months and could be allergic to. When i told them i was disappointed in them and that i didnt feel like i could have made it more clear and that it was not their place to find out if she was allergic.or not and that i think the did it on purpose. The response was to stop talking to me for two weeks, tell me they were not going to my dd christening and they would stop all 'their lot' going as well and to tell me i talked to them like they were two year olds and try to rewrite history to make them look better.

I was calm and assertive and told them i was disappointed in them and it was up to them to go to christening or not. They did go and its never talked about now.

My brother used to beat me up when he was 19 yo and i was 13 yo. My dad used to ask him to hit me when i was 'annoying'. My mum watched and noone stopped it. I called my eldest sister she didnt want to know. She is 18 years older than me an adult but did nothing.

It stopped when school found out and called ss. I got hit for school finding out and 'bringing ss to our house'.

I havent talked to my brother in 10 or more years. He hit me and i would get shouted at for his behaviour. He is the golden child and can do no wrong. Everything in my mum and dads life is about him. They even look after his child and call him a great dad.

My i had my son 4 years ago i had pnd and my mums response was to shout at me and row with me. She did nothing to help me. My SIL has PND and my mum looks after their son three days per week and over night.

When my son hanged his head i was on my first period after birth and bf and i was sitting on waterproof sheet and wearing maternity pads and changing them ever 30 minutes. I couldnt go anywhere so my dh and MIL took son to A&E to get him check out (he was fine) my mum phone i explained what was goong on and she shouted at me not taking him, that i was an unfit mother and that she was going to come and take my son away because i couldnt look after him. She then called my sister who called me up and shouted and swear at me for not going with my son to A&E. They both hung up on me and no it wasnt helpful when i was ill and worried about my son.

Then in person my sister told me i was a bad mother because i had PND and i shouldnt have my son. I told her to fuck off and that shoulding at me was scaring my son and i had no intrest in talking to her anymore. I havent talked to her since. Thats the middle sister who is 16 years older than me.

I am feed up of all of them. So this year i have decided to not see them over xmas and to not give gifts to the children of the people who do not talk to me.

I feel so guilty that i have not got gifts for the kids. I have no money, i told their parents i was not going to but i feel as guilty as hell.

Like im taking out adult disagreement on the kids.

I have never given to my xbrother child and i never will.

My eldest sister has a 10 yo and two 1yo and the middle sister has a 7yo. I have always got them gifts and i have always been treated like shit by there mums.

We only see them twice a year. Last time we went (they never call us or drive to see us its always me making the effort) the two eldest children was mean to my son not letting him have the ball and excluding him from games.

Rationaly i dont see the point in continuing contact as when my mum dies i will not see them again anyway. They never make an effort for me or my family. They have never been to by childrens birthday parties or christenings.

I only live two hours away!

But the fog is there and i want to go into my overdraft and go on amizon to send the kids gifts that i cant afford and that they will not appresate anyway.

So do i get gifts or not?

My lot believe that whatever they do would be "wrong" because there is no pleasing your children and you can't get it right. Hmmmm.

Been feeling really overwhelmed and desperate lately. Had pushed all this to the back of my mind for ages but watched Tulisa's documentary My Mum and Me (not sure if it's okay to link but it's all on Vimeo if you do a search for the title) about kids with mentally ill parents and one of them had a parent with clinical depression. It was a massive trigger and I think kick-started the process that left me thinking about all this stuff all the time all of a sudden.

Starting therapy is helping, but now have to stop for the Christmas break, so it's all lousy timing really. Got a lot of stuff in my head. Writing it down in a journal which is helping a little.

Sorry for this aimless waffle.

Waffle away i do :)

I think i will repost in chat and see what other people think?

AirOfHope I honestly don't feel I can tell you whether to go NC or not. All I can say is it's important to think about what you want and need, not what you think you "ought" to do because of guilt or obligation.

Sorry only just seeing all your posts. I don't think you should go into your overdraft to get gifts, no. I don't think you want to, and I think it's okay if you don't, and I don't think those kids will hold it against you.

Sorry you went through all that :(

No don't spend money you can't afford on people who won't appreciate it!!