"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's November 2012, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread <a class="break-all" href="http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/440839-but-we-took-you-to-stately-homes-a-thread-for" target="_blank">here (December 2007)</a>

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn?t have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

Follow up to pages first thread:

I?m sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don?t claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

I have cut and pasted this because I think it is fab. Just in case anyone misses the link.

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

Midwife

Your father is a real piece of work isn't he?.

This too is typical tp speak:-

"We will never accept what you have said"

Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

I'd be going no contact with them as of now and free yourself from them and their toxic behaviours. Neither of them show any remorse whatsoever for their actions and you were utterly and completely failed by them as a child (and that is an understatement given what you have written about them). They are still failing you.

They can bleat that, " we want to see the kids" all they want but its still all about them and their needs. Your children are but of secondary concern to them really.

Do not subject your children to them in any way, shape or form. Toxic parents more often than not make for being toxic grandparents and are not above using the children to get back at their "errant" offspring.

DDs have birthdays in the New Year, I don't want her to send them stuff. DH says it's up to them, they don't want stuff. It means contacting her, if I email she keeps it and shows it to everyone in a look how badly treated I am fashion. Bugger!

dawn don't send an email and return any gifts or donate them to charity, if that is how you feel.

"Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them."

My parents do this always have done. I was/ am the difficult child, I asked for it etc. Even my brothers (after my father beat me) would say I brought it on myself. It's awful and even now they all want me to fix things with my Dad after his abuse at Easter by e-mail and text message.

Midwife I'm so new to this thread and often just lurk but your Fathers e-mail is disgusting. I'm not as wise as others on here but I would definitely go absolutely no contact and not allow access to your DCs.

I've now opted to avoid the big Christmas get together with my family, as they will all excuse and enable Dads behaviour and he has form, for speaking things over my kids. He told my son at only 18 months, that he was just like his father. Funnily enough I stopped seeing my parents as much, just after that. I wish my Dad wouldn't dare to do things to my Kids. He smacked my son once for something very minor. It made me so upset and when I asked them to never discipline my kids again and that I'd do it and choose something appropriate, such as a time out, that went down like a lead balloon, because of course being divorced and a lone parent, I need help Not their kind thanks very much!

mmmm baubles siblings the same as yours, I was difficult, I was argumentative, ,etc, etc, blah blah bloody blah. Once having DC of my own I realised that this is not child's fault, but parents responsibility. Well done for putting an end to their crap by not going this year. sounds like you will never be able to leave your children with them. They will always dismiss your way as irrelevant, weird, wrong, whatever. So impossible!

Thank you so much for all your words of support today. I wish I could do the same for you but am a bit shell shocked. DH received 2 letters today from him parents containing pages & pages of vitriol followed up by texts & emails. This all stems from him throwing them out of his house a few weeks ago for screaming at me in front of the children completely unprovoked. They hate us being together. Today I'm feeling as if it's just too difficult & maybe we should call it a day.

ive side stepped christmas too. My mum still asks, but I no longer have the feeling of dread from October on as we do Christmas here at home, just our family - we are making our own traditions. We are close enough that the kids and i can pop over to theirs for a couple of hours in the afternoon to do the presents, and dP stays here and gets a bit of peace and relaxation, as he finds it all too distressing and isnt used to it like me, so that it can just go over his head. The kids like to see my sister and their cousin too, and I may get a chance to speak to my dad....
We have had Christmas at home for I think the last 5 years, but my mum still asks, and seems surprised. I found myself beginning to waffle and make excuses and justify why, but managed to just stop and say we liked it like that. It got too tense with 'who's turn'.... and my mum had tried to offset that by doing a huge one where DPs parents came too one year...... I just couldnt face all the agony of it. DPs parents are very easy going. They drive DP a bit crazy, but are generally on good form for Christmas. We go to theirs on Boxing day. It also makes it easier as we get our frankly bizarre, funny and quirky presents from DPs family then (they dont spend a huge deal) and I dont have to reel off a list of who bought us what for it to be scrutinised...
tame stuff I know compared to others, but still stomach lurching...

No I could never ever leave my 2 DCs with my Dad and at my parents house for a day or a weekend. And my ex in laws certainly have their own issues and my ExH's Mum is very self entitled and manipulative. I do long for a family that is supportive. I never thought after divorce things would be like they are. I feel so alone at times.

Mum has babysat once for me in 3 years and it was for just over 4 hours, in the October half term. She seemed to cope well and just took them to the park and then watched CBeebies with them. I don't think I'd ever leave them with her longer. But she came to me here at my home and I had no one else to ask that day. I do pay childminders often but that day my ExH and childminders weren't able to help. It wasn't ideal but I was desperate, as I had to work, it was a new job and I'd only just begun. It's sad though isn't it? Really sad. I am envious of others who have Mums and Dads who can and do help them a lot. All I used to get was criticism on my parenting when I went to their house.

Last Christmas I foolishly gave in to their demands/ pleas about how they'd be alone on Christmas day and it was bloody awful. My Dad was angry all day and frowning at my DCs. I spent all my time trying to make them behave in the way I thought they'd approve of. Their house is not child friendly and is full of antiques and expensive clocks (my Dad collects them). I put my son down for a nap, when he no longer had them, in a bid to improve the atmosphere and keep Dad happier, by creating a quieter environment. In the end I went home with a splitting headache and threw up as I walked in the door. I think it must have been a tension headache. I haven't had anything like that since. And of course my son then didn't settle for sleep until past 9pm, that day.

But the previous 2 years had been constant negative feedback on my parenting, telling me I should smack them, after I'd asked them not to do it themselves etc. It had all been building up. Which is why I asked for space after Christmas, which began the final altercation when Dad disowned me at Easter.

Desperate for their approval, for them to approve of my children and my parenting but I honestly wonder if my Dad even likes my children and even my Mother I'm unsure of. I think they labelled my son from the moment he was born as 'difficult' as he had horrendous colic. My Mum used to wonder if my H would have cheated if my children hadn't been so close together and my son so dreadful as a newborn crying all the time.

I of course as a baby apparently cried constantly and Mum used to put my crib in the bathroom and shut the door so she couldn't hear me. Why do they tell you these things when older? It upset me. Still does. She had 4 other children and it was all very difficult for her apparently. I sympathise, but I could never have left my son to cry for hours on his own.

When my first DD was born, within the first week home, my Mum came to stay and made me start sleep training her to just go to sleep and leave her crying. I was so tired and doubted myself and I couldn't stand to leave her crying. It made me cry. As soon as she went home again, I found the confidence to do what I felt was right. Still feel guilty now. Why did I listen to her?

Do you know what disturbs me the most? I stopped breathing as a baby. Mum had left me to CIO and self settle. After a while she came upstairs to silence and discovered me blue in the face and not breathing. She resuscitated me but she says I was never quite the same after. I do have a dreadful memory actually. My brothers all went to uni. I cannot retain anything without lists and I didn't perform well in exams at all. Always takes me twice to pass anything. I know it's ridiculous but I wonder whether I'd have been smarter if I'd not been left alone and stopped breathing for a short while. Silly isn't it? I doubt they're related at all.

One of my brothers has put up 40 years of DB on fb and every photo I see of myself as a child makes me feel so sad and empty. My stomach knots. I cannot dredge up barely any happy memories at all. Being told off and labelled as the bad one and of course it was still brought up every Christmas for years as an adult too by the whole family. It almost seemed tradition to do it. It leaves your self confidence in taters.

Wow this post is long. It wasn't meant to be. Once I got typing I couldn't stop

I do think I may need to go back to the GP. I was on ADs for a year. I came off them a year ago but I'm struggling at the moment.

I'm also finding that I am much much quicker to snap at the kids and to get cross. I'm so tired right now and I so desperately want to be a perfect parent. ExH never has the kids overnight, he just comes by here for a few hours once or twice a week. So I think I just need a break but it's not possible. No one to ask.

They are toxic! Stay away from them baubles and keep posting to get it out. You have loads of supporters here! All shouting for you and getting behind you spurring you on... There is hope and things are always changing, you are changing, nothing stays the same. I feel so for you. Its get so that nothing hurts anymore tho (you know, the different memories cropping up and knocking you for six/bringing confusion/desolation/numbness or whatever point you're at).

Chuck some more long posts at us and get it off your chest; this is where you get your understanding at last.

You really won't be the perfect parent, but thats good as perfect doesn't sound good to me (and doesn't exist), but you are trying to do right by your DC and thats what matters. Remember you don't have to make up for everything that happened you, their life is already different because of YOU! If you are on the [healthy] parenting forums in MN you'll see lots of practical and good ways of managing any bits you might struggle with, but we all struggle with being tired and DC trying to push limits, resist, and have tantrums. Your instincts are spot on tho from what you've said and the way you have defended DC from your parents.

In what ways can you give yourself a break right now, For the sake of your emo and mental wellbeing, getting childcare help for instance. One of the huge impacts of these awful parents, is then having to parent alone yourself (without the supportive family that many can call upon for those moments when you need a break!!!) [Lone parent speaking]

Rubbish parents don't get worn down, weary and close to the edge as they don't work hard at it like you are. Look after yourself and know that you are doing great things right now (and on your own). Get all the rest you can. lots of ((hugs)). Tell us more if you haven't already gone to sleep! ;)

MW I am so sorry.
I wish I knew what to say :(
Mum is now texting me from hospital complaining...sigh. There really isnt anything I can do. I know she is fed up. I would be too.
Wrt Xmas...not sure what's happening now. Maybe my parents won't be coming, ESP if mum is still ill?
I just need to get through this week...lots of school/family stuff etc...
Am so tired :(

midwife where to begin ? giving up on each other because of them is what they'd celebrate surely?

Letters must remain unopened and binned, texts simply deleted before reading, and phone calls ignored, or actually, if there's abuse in them you could keep them and pass them (letters/texts/emails) to the police, they will end up having restrictions put on them to leave you alone as its harrassment legally. Don't give any of your joint energies to giving their vitriol air space, shut it down.Log it with the police and start living your lives instead of living under it. You have strength against them together if you'd know that, in supporting each other.

there isn't anything you can do, you're right, Badvoc except not torture yourself for that. Just accept that you can't do anything.

I know. she is in a private room so she should get some sleep. I will go in tomorrow - mainly to give my dad a break.
My bro is ill - apparently. He was well enough to be out in the pub last night however
That's something that has always eluded me...WHY do so many of these parents favour the children who don't give a crap about them? Use them for money? Cause heartache?
Why is that?
Sorry...I know there is no answer really, but it just doesn't make sense to me at all :(

.... because they don't have a hold over them and they know it, and they'd 'have' to behave if they want to stay in touch. thats my theory, but they also do put up with some of their ways and accept them to a degree I think (this is from my trying to make sense of the same screwy relationships!)

one DC stopped breathing Baubles and going blue, and I had to resuscitate, I always remember how the length of time was continually asked whenever anything medical came up in the future (which seems an obvious thing now but thats indication for any potential damage) DS lips were blue, not whole face, and lasted less than 1 min before resussed.

Presumably I didn't stop breathing for long though? Mum just doesn't know how long it was. I know ten minutes means your brain dead though.

It's horrid. She continually left me to scream alone in room with a door shut. I just couldn't do that to a small baby.

My sons colic was pretty bad. He screamed for 5 hrs a night. It did make me feel I was loosing my mind at the time, as ExH was never there, so I had no one to take turns with. And nothing I did would help or stop it. I did leave him in his cot and walk away for a few minutes once but I couldn't leave him for long. How my Mum did it consistently, I don't know.

DS slept in my bed last night, as he's full of cold. So I'm just as tired as yesterday. He kept asking me to blow his nose in the night. I didn't go to bed as early as I should have. I watched a documentary before bed. Foolish of me.

Midwife how are you feeling this morning?

I still feel very guilty for doing the controlled crying thing one night when DD was about 10 months. I did it as I hadn't woken up until I hit the floor whilst holding her the previous night (after walking from my bedroom to hers and picking her up out of the cot). I was so sleep deprived that I was a risk to her and I was so shocked to realise she was in my arms after I hit the floor and realised I hadn't been awake and I was holding her!!! and still don't know what I could've done although I so regret having done that [controlled crying] . She cried a lot and midwives/health visitors trying to help out would have to hand her back to me! but she never cried for more than moments as I would cuddle her. I was shut in a room at the far end of the house as a baby and nearly gassed. Being left to scream is just awful (I don't know about as a baby, probably though, but definitely all through my childhood was left to scream and scream and cry endlessly distraught). All awful. You are truly amazing to have done that 5 hrs a night with no help Baubles

thinking of you midwife

Badvocsanta...she gets stopped in her tracks when she speaks to the DC like that. She used to do it to the other 2 but now they're older it doesn't work, so she concentrates on DD2, but I do fight back when she starts with it. She enjoys cruelty...she is even cruel to the dog - he's a big soppy lab, but she will constantly tell him to fetch his lead (then ignores him while he's waiting to go out), or call 'dinner' and then laugh til she cries when he is looking for it, or shuts him out in the garden just for the 'fun' of hearing him cry to come back in. She feeds off others' upset. It's sick.

Attilla...I think you are right, I am still hoping she will become the mother I always wanted when I know deep down she won't. I also fall into the trap of thinking sometimes that I am imagining her bad behaviour, I feel sorry for her (she lives alone as I lost my dad 18 years ago) but then when she is here I go to pieces. It literally takes me about 3 days to recover, it's like getting over an illness. It's the only time I drink, when she is here or has just left. My DC are well aware of her ways, and DD1 said she would split the £20 3 ways so dd2 didn't miss out. I let her keep the money for her and DS and I gave DD2 the equivalent myself. But then I hate the thought that she thinks nana gave it to her when in actual fact I don't think my mother even likes her, let alone loves her.

I had invited her up for xmas (she refused but will be fully expecting me to beg) but I have told the Dcs and DP to remind me of how badly she makes me feel if I start to feel sorry for her and invite her again. I think I would be suicidal if she was here for xmas, which is a very special time of year for me, I love it.

She is definitely a narcissist, I have looked into it before and she fits the bill on almost every level. The scary thing is I married a narcissist too, and I fully believe I did that as I had been conditioned to accept the foul behaviour from my mother first.

I'm trying to read all the posts on this thread, and have come across the posts about Christmas/birthday presents etc. My mother has a bedroom in her house that she calls the 'crap present room' and when anyone buys her a present, she opens the door and flings the present in unless it's something she really wants. One year I bought her a Bee Gees cd, it had only just come out, and she yelled at me down the phone because I had bought her a bee gees cd the year before (a different one) and how crap it was, and how I had made no effort, and how I obviously figured that was all she was worth!
But that is nothing compared to when I was about 7, and I saved all my money to buy her a birthday present. It was her bday on 30th, but for some reason I got it wrong and gave her the present on 31st. It was an African violet plant in a wicker basket, and I had kept it hidden, and watered and looked after for the week before her day. Anyway, because I gave it to her a day late she took it up, threw it against the wall and broke it...the lid came off it's hinges and the heads all broke off the flowers and there was mud all over the carpet. I was 7! And that is a legacy which I have to this day...I never feel that I have done enough at birthdays and Christmases...I am always apologising for not getting enough, or not making it special enough.

a sadly familiar tale patches I know other family members have reported receiving back another xmas things they gave previously! and the other stuff you mention too

newpatches :( that's a disgusting thing to do to a child. You sound lovely btw.

my MIL used to give presents back to family members and say how disappointed she was as 'they show how little anyone knows me or cares about me.' I say used to because she gets no present from us any more. We ended up for the last couple of years giving her a very small token (after spending years spending money we didn't really have trying to appease her). She said this was better as at least it was 'openly crap' rather than just 'crap she couldn't complain about to people'.

The low point was one Boxing Day where DH went to visit and was thrown out after he didn't respond to one of her nasty remarks. (I had chosen by this point not to go). The presents for the family were thrown at him, at his head, out the door and he tried to pick them all up before they got wet fom the snow :(

And still he went back.

Princess....but....how??? And why??? I could never do that to my DCs...I have kept absolutely everything they have ever given me, and cherish every single thing. I even have bits of toilet roll which DD2 has drawn on for me, and it's all put in big boxes and stored away.

I have a feeling I am going to be posting lots on here, as nobody who doesn't have a toxic parent can possibly understand. DP is fantastic, and listens so patiently, and talks things through with me...but he can't understand.

forgetmenots...that's horrific! Poor DH. Your MIL talks very much like my mother does...everything is crap to her. I didn't buy her anything last year, and had intended buying her a bed set she liked this year (it's the same as mine...she always but always copies me) but it would mean driving to hers and I do not want to see her again this side of xmas.
Does DH still have contact?

I read further back that it is always the siblings who don't give a crap/behave badly etc that are treated the best. My brother did time, lived on the streets, drank, did drugs...and my mum thinks the sun shines out of his backside. She never falls out with him, and yet me, who never brought her a day's trouble...