Husbands hiding income and outgoings???

[Snowflower01]

Am i the only one, who has no idea what my DH does with his money?
I sometimes see his current account statement, but have no idea what he does with the money. He transfers enough funds into a joint account to cover our monthly outgoings. But where does the rest go?
I have no idea whether he has savings or debts. He has had gambling debts twice in the last ten years (five figured numbers both times) and I believed that these were cleared and believed his online gambling activity had ceased.
He refuses, point blank to log into his bank account and show me his current account and any savings accounts that he might have.
I never saw the debt paperwork or online figures, so figures may have been very different, to the size of the losses that I was told about. I start to fear he is still has debts. Am I being unreasonable?
I just want to ensure that I don't see him lose the roof over our heads.
What can i do to protect me and our two children?

You'll get through this Snowflower. It's not about you not being savvy. Some people will go to tremendous lengths to cover their tracks. Who could blame you for wanting to believe in your H and not spend time and emotion for checking up on him.

BustersOfDoom Quote "But you 'could' do a credit check for him if you know some basic personal details to find that out."

Has gone thru my mind, even have asked him to do one. Won't bother telling you the response.
But all checks need a credit card and then that would show on a statement and then I would be as dishonest as him. It couldn't be done, apart from in my sole name with my credit card and then show results by association.

If he had a five figure debt 3 years ago I think there was a strong possibility tht some of that is still outstanding, unless he earns a substantial wage. Of course he could have paid it off with further gambling but then he wouldn't be being truthful with giving up gambling. I had £5k of debt from when I left uni and 5 years later I'm only just nearly done paying it off, although I could have paid it off quicker if I'd been long a stricter more savvy lifestyle.
Did he cut back on lots of things 3 years ago to pay off his gambling debt?

Eurostar >>> Thank you for your comment.

I will get through this. My children come first. How can you trust someone having been deceived in the past. i gave him the trust or was it a rope?

He might have nothing to hide, but why HIDE your accounts.?? Either way, I hate what he is doing and see this as the beginning of end of our marriage. I gave in twice before.

Well in that case Snowflower01 maybe you should do one just for you and check out the Financial Associations. If there is borrowing there that you know nothing about then you are in a better position to question him.

But no, you really wouldn't be as dishonest as him. You are looking to protect yourself and your DC, he seems to only want to hide what he is up to. That is not normal.

FatimaLovesBread >>Did he cut back on lots of things 3 years ago to pay off his gambling debt?

He sold shares and used savings and gains from a second gambling account. One secret gambling account was in the red. I knew NOTHING of that first account. The second account was closed with some gains.

But this is what i was told. I saw nothing on paper or online.

Silly/stupid/trusting/naive wife not asking for proof.

BustersOfDoom Quote>> You are looking to protect yourself and your DC, he seems to only want to hide what he is up to. That is not normal.

ABSOLUTELY THE WAY THAT I SEE IT.

Thank you to all of you for your comments.
Odd, how no one has come on, defending my DH as such. I really don't like where we have found ourselves. A sort of a no win situation.
His refusal to disclose his finances has made me make decisions that he won't want.
And now he has had five days to turn it around, but either way, debts or not, he has made me want to go it alone.
Why throw so much away??? His children should have come first. gambling is an evil activity.

See as I've said I earn twice what DP does. I cannot think of any legitimate reason whatsoever why I would hide my income and outgoings from him unless I was up to no good. None.

Ahh well if he sold shares and used savings then I suppose he could have paid the debt off then.
It would annoy me if I had no knowledge at all of DHs finances. We have separate accounts and a joint account but we both know each others incomings/outgoings as we treat it as family finances.

I agree with doing a credit check on yourself as a minimum, and maybe a check on the house.
I have done an instant credit check on DH online (with his permission) but I did have to answer some questions such as who does he have this credit card with, what is the credit limit etc so I don't suppose you'd know the answer to those.
Could you do one of the ones where you pay £2 and they post it to you?

It is absolutely unfair of him to leave you insecure about being able to keep your home and feed your children.

The seperate finance only works if you have absolute trust in each other. He has (and I don't meant to make him sound like a naughty teenager but I can't think of another way to put it ) lost that privilege.

I do hope you manage to deal with this, you must be a bundle of nerves.

rhondajean Quote Yes, so right. I feel sick most of the time.

Hiding his accounts has created a no win situation.
If he would show me his outgoings, there might be nothing sinister, but his refusal to disclose is the breaker for me.
I haven't spoken or seen him since Saturday and this is giving me the chance to think constantly. Good or bad.
Our understanding of trust and clarity in our financial matters differs beyond belief and is subsequently a minefield.
If there is a debt, I wonder if his elderly parents will help out, in order to save things. They would protect him whatever and I would never know. But this still doesn't change the way he has handled the whole thing. Mum and dads bank is not what i want.

Snowflower, this must be absolutely hideous for you. If he didn't have previous form for racking up obscene debts then one could, possibly, make an argument how trust is important. But he already blew your trust in such a spectacular and wretched way not once but twice. Under the circumstances I think you have every right to want to know where the family's money is going.

His refusal says sad volumes about the importance he places on your marriage compared to his desire to keep his real financial situation secret. It demonstrates a complete unwillingness for him to admit responsibility for previous wrongs, the damage his actions have caused to your marriage or his role in trying to repair that damage. It's like someone who has been caught having two affairs and yet is still secretive about his phone and is still sneaking out of the house for hours on end. He's not taking you seriously.

How did you find out about the previous gambling debts? Did he come to you or did something happen that stopped him being able to hide it?

My DP is a compulsive gambler. The only way we can be together is if he is completely open with me about gambling/finances, he also needs to have limited control of/access to money. It's one of the first steps at gamblers anonymous (DP also attends meetings). DP has also lost many thousands of pounds in the time we've been together (majority from my earnings sadly) so I know where you are, but i also know the typical behaviours of someone with a gambling problem- I'd suggest that your DH is someone with a gambling problem. The trouble is that you can't force someone to get help for an addiction, they need to want it for themselves.

A few months ago my DP finally hit that point, he realised that he was about to lose me, DD (obviously he would still have had access but not the same), our lovely home, car, nice lifestyle. He is now attending GA and I so hope he is on the way to recovery. I also know how desperately tempting it is to stick your head in the sand, to allow yourself to believe that he isn't, that he wouldn't/couldn't do that to you. I've avoided checking my own accounts for months because i was so scared that he'd been gambling from them and then I'd need to deal with the fighting/crying/suicide threats that me finding him out would cause.

You need to protect yourself and your DC. This is easier for me to do as we are not married, however as far as I understand it you are effectively jointly liable for all debts within the marriage regardless of whether you are named on them or not. You need to find out what that amounts to, urgently. Ask calmly for him to be open with you, if he refuses to give you the information you need I would do whatever it takes to get a credit report even if it means him finding out via credit card statement etc.

I really hope it's not as bad as I suspect it might be.

Snowflower, he has created a no win situation for the both of you.

Sweetheart, you need to give yourself a good shake!

Imagine a woman coming on here and saying her husband had previously been unfaithful, been forgiven and was now refusing to let her see his phone. You know that everyone would say he needed an ultimatum.

You are in the same boat. He was secretive about your JOINT income (ie you both contribute to his ability to earn that money, according to the law), and he is being secretive after previous issues where he racked up huge debts.

It sounds as though last time you found out, he was economical with the truth and you allowed him to be.

Many people couldnt live with a man like this, because his assumption is that his salary is his alone, and that can only mean that he sees you as a junior partner in the marriage I certainly couldnt, and believe me, I have put up with some crap. It is not the 1950s.

IN your shoes, I would not ask for, but DEMAND, full transparency, or leave him and save my half of the assets, if it is even possible. Because as his wife you are jointly liable for half his debts anyway, are you, in the sense that if you sell, any debts have first call on the asset, whoever incurred them. Someone else may be able to confirm this.

Of course, just like the unfaithful husband, there is only one reason for his secrecy- something to hide.

Oh, and when you do discover how bad it is, seek legal financial advise to see how to protect yourself.

I would be quite surprised if my DH refused to let me know about his money. We are married. That means no secrets (unless it's a big present for me!) and being open and honest.

I'm the lower wage earner, especially now I'm on maternity leave, but I organise our family finances. We are both paid into our sole accounts, all the household bills, mortgage etc come out of his account and I pay my own car insurance and mobile. We have a joint groceries account that I put more into than him. We then put all our savings into accounts that are in sole names (just the way it works out) and we both know exactly what is in them regardless of whose name they are in. It's all "joint" just happens to not be in a joint account.

You are married, he shouldn't be hiding his finances from you.

You need to make a stand. How can you possibly carry on like this?

For me, the refusal to disclose would be a dealbreaker in a way that debt itself would not be.

I would also certainly start salting away money into an account yourself OP. If your DH is refusing to talk about your financial situation you need to have a contingency fund NOW so you can keep the kids fed / housed when the shit hits the fan.

Don't be bullied by him into accepting this or told that you are "nagging" or "not trusting enough". Trust is something that needs to be earned.

IMO after his last spectacular fuck-up you should have been put in charge of all the money anyway, but it's too late for that now.

OP: This situation was a dealbreaker for me. Having no knowledge of his bank account, or ever seeing bills etc. Having the bailiffs on the doorstep when my son was 6 weeks old; having the building society phone up and ask me when I was going to pay the arrears, coupled with the fact that my DP had a substantial bonus which never came anywhere near the house, nor did the "housekeeping" money that month. So, having no food in the house 2 days before Christmas was the straw that broke the camel's back.

You must make a stand to protect yourself and your DC. I know that you will, but just reiterating. Then, when you have the information, get yourself down to CAB or Women's Aid and find out where you stand - it may not be domestic violence, but it is financial abuse.....

Snorbs

This is the clincher, both times, i found out by accident.
Ten years ago, we needed to increase our mortgage for building work. The mortgage application flagged up an undisclosed debt and the poor lady on the phone couldn't tell me. All she asked was whether we had bought a car. On asking my DH, he came clean, but it took days for the whole thing to be admitted to. He held back. His parents baled him out. Back then it was mainly done on by phoning the bookies.
Three years ago, i went out to help at my sons Cubs session. On arriving, so many mums had turned out, that I stood down and went home. I was home one hour earlier than anticipated. Opening the door, my husband scurried out of the dining room and attempted to shut down his laptop. OMG it is weird thinking back, but something was not right. He sat me down and told me where he was at and not to worry. It wasn't gambling, it was speculating. Two very different things. How sad am I?? I took it all in and he showed me the account. Yes yes, it was amazing. I saw the numbers and his gains. I was amazed. People working for banks get paid a fortune doing the same thing. Taking advantage of rising or falling markets, but he just omitted to tell me that he had a second account with a substantial 5 figure debt.
But alas, whilst not knowing about the debt, the successful account took a nosedive. I called a halt and demanded that all debts were cleared in order to ensure we had no debts. He even lost money from two of his friends.
We lived in separate rooms for a couple of months, but in the end I gave our marriage another chance and believed that he would be honest and allow me to know how he runs his finances.

I am not perfect by any means, but I do not lie about my finances and the paperwork is openly available to view. He claims to only have one credit card. No idea whether this is true. He diverted his post back then and possibly now too.

Another tip...our marriage counsellor said that you can never trust another person, in some ways...you can believe in them, but you ca "only trust yourself".

If you think about it, it is true, and it is a really helpful phrase if difficult relationships.

Looked at that way, you can already see that you dont trust him not to be hiding something, and you believe that you are right to be concerned. See?

So what next?

in difficult relationships!

I'd be concerned that your h is hiding his post from you as well as refusing to give you access to his bank account.

Your situation sounds very similar to a close family member. She only discovered the true extent of her h's debts when they received a letter from their mortgage company saying they were repossessing the house. She ended up homeless and divorced.

You need to get a true picture of your finances. If your h won't tell you anything you should open your own bank account and get your wages paid into it so that you have emergency funds if the worst happens.

So all of your posts and only one other person admits to not knowing about partner's outgoings, but after my DH's the two mega gambling events of the past, the occasional update can not be totally unreasonable??

I don't know what my husband earns or anything really about our outgoings, but I have no reason to mistrust him. He doesn't keep it from me, I used to do all the financial stuff. He took over when I became ill and I've never felt the urge to change that. But then he spents almost all his non work time with me and he does all the shopping because I hate it. On the rare occassions I do go anywhere or want to buy something myself I tell him what I need and he either gives me the cash or his card so I can take it out myself.

But the key is trust. I trust him more than I trust myself. I would not be happy to live like this if I didn't.