I really don't know what to do/ think.

[NeedToSleepZZZ]

I found out last night that my OH has been having extremely flirtatious conversations via facebook with someone that goes to the same aikido class as him.

This is the third time he has done this (different women and over 3 years)and although there has never been any physical cheating (to my knowledge) I am bereft. We have a 21 month old ds and, after the last time I thought things were really different for us. I was so happy with him and I thought he was with me. Things have just started to improve (new job for him, possible new house) and I felt so close to him.

He had a problem with alcohol and one of my requests was that he sorted this out if we were to stay together. He saw a counsellor and has been dry for a year now, he really wanted to show I could trust him and that he loved me.

Sorry if this is a bit muddled, I am all over the place. I have packed him a bag to collect after work as I think I need time to think about what to do next but inside I'm desperate for him to just hug me and for us to work it out.

I hate the thought of ds growing up without his dad at home, I had a bad experience with my biological father so this may be clouding my judgement.

Not sure what I'm asking for, maybe some ideas on what to do or stories from anyone that's been through this would help. I do love him dearly and he is a good man apart from this.

Thank you again for your advice (hi ledkr ), especially essejay; it's good to hear from someone that's been in this situation and it's good to hear that you and your ds are doing well, I hope things keep getting better for you.

OH has just collected ds to take him to his parents' for dinner, he was very off with me. He seems very stressed, maybe he's getting used to the idea that it may be over. Luckily ds seems fine; he only asked once this morning for dadda and I said he was at work.

I am still so confused, I get moments of feeling strong and that I could maybe do this on my own but then the heartbreak of imagining a life without ever being close to OH sets in and I cry again.

He said he wants to set a time and place to have a proper talk, I don't want it to be at home as it would be too much I think. Any ideas? I can't eat at the moment so not dinner or anything (the smell of food turns my stomach atm) and as he's in recovery a pub isn't a good idea either.

Beth, you are right that I don't want to feel like I have 2 dc and at the moment it seems to me handing out punishment to make him behave and that's not right. He needs to be making strides to prove that he will change for good and telling me how he's going to achieve this without me encouraging him. That said, I still think that we could do with some couples' counselling to address issues that we've had since ds came along as that's when the eas started.

If there are any large chain hotels near you (Best Western, Holiday Inn etc) , meet him in their lounge area. Neither pub nor restaurant but you can usually get a cup of coffee (at a rip-off price). I often use them for off-site meetings.

I think a meeting somewhere neutral is a good idea - I like CES's suggestion of meeting in a hotel lounge. An alternative would be a coffee shop.

As for couples counselling, I think it is too early at this stage - I would wait until things are calmer and you have decided that you want to take him back. In the meantime, the Not Just Friends book is really good for looking at vulnerabilities and weaknesses in the betrayer and the marriage.

However, if he is blaming DS's birth for his affair, then he needs to be addressing his coping skills - every marriage has its ups and downs and having a new baby should not mean a man can go off and shag other people. A father who isn't an immature man child is aware that with a young baby, there is bound to be less sex, less attention and that life will be very different. It is not your job to pander to his needs and ego.

"OH has just collected ds to take him to his parents' for dinner, he was very off with me."

That tells you everything you need to know about the sincerity of his apologies and promises not to do it again.

He expected you to fall for his whole boo hoo act again and let him straight back home.

He was very apologetic again when he dropped ds back home and apologised for being short with me. We only had a brief conversation but I think the crux of the issue is that he doesn't think that was he has done is that bad. I realised earlier that I haven't given any details about what he's done so maybe if I do that you can help me see things objectively and please tell me if I am overreacting.

Incident no 1:
I was in the early stages of pg with ds and he became friends with a woman on fb that I knew he had met (not physically) on a dating site before he met me. She has an autistic son and as he worked with autistic people before, he said that they had become friends. Fine, there was nothing mentioned about sex in the texts or messages but he seemed very 'involved' in her day to day life iyswim. She would complain about being single and even ask how things were with the pregnancy. All this would've been fine but he kept it all secret from me and the fact that they had chatted through the dating site meant they found each other attractive.

Incident no 2:
I woke up in the middle of the night to find OH chatting via Skype to his ex girlfriend and telling her he loved her. He was completely drunk, I couldn't get him to stand up let alone have a conversation with him. When he was sober he admitted the extent of his drinking and showed me texts on his phone between the 2 of them. Again, there was nothing sexual, it was more a case of "I've been thinking about you" and "I still care about you" (she was going through a very rough time at that point). We decided to carry on but only if he sought help about his drinking, which he did, and things became a lot better between us.

Incident no 3:
I needed to use his laptop as my battery was flat and his fb was open. I was looking for a message from a mutual friend about something when I saw the messages between him and this girl. He started the conversation and they spoke about aikido and general chit chat but then she said "it's a shame you're married" to which he replied "I'm not married (true) but I have an awesome little boy and girlfriend which is a shame sometimes." He then asked her if she was going to the christmas party as he was going to get drunk and he was very funny when he was drunk. There was no overtly sexual talk, he said he couldn't believe she was single as she was so 'hot' and she said he wasn't so bad himself.

Would you call this cheating?

Yes - telling someone else that he loves her is cheating.

He is flirting, exchanging confidences etc -all in secret. These are overstepping boundaries, bringing him down the slippery slope into an affair. If you look at the link I posted earlier, there is a quiz about the differences between a friendship and an emotional affair.

The problem is that he has not learned from the first time he got caught - I wonder how many times he has done this without getting caught

needto I have been trying to be completely objective, but after seeing what he has written I am fuming for you.

The first one, not too bad, the second one sounds pretty pathetic, but the third one sounds the most serious because he sounds as if he is almost arranging to meet her and suggesting that he fancies her. Also saying that being with you is a shame sometimes is completely disgusting. You are the mother of his child, he should have more respect for you. Especially since he has stopped drinking for you and was planning to get drunk....

I don't know if I would call it cheating, but it is completely disrespectful and it may well have turned into cheating at this Christmas party. So he obviously doesn't give a shit about the not drinking and the not flirting with other women even though it means a lot to you. I hope you can drill into him how serious it is and you really can't take him back without him realising how shit he was acting.

I'd be having none of it, he's got a nerve! Whichever way you look at it, he's betrayed you three times. You deserve better and I'm sorry you're being our through this.

Thanks MadAbout, I have just looked at that and sent a link to him too. The first page was really helpful as well.

Salty, that's the thing I thought about the party. I can't believe he would plan to get drunk after all this time.

Going to go to bed in a minute as ds is having a restless night so far and thinkit's going to be a long one....

Hope you're doing ok....

I think what this shows is that this man is just not ready to be in a monogamous relationship.

All the tears and forgiveness in the world won't alter that fact.

His urges are getting stronger, not weaker.

I've got no doubt that he would have hooked up with this woman at the party. What he said couldn't have been more blatant regarding his intentions.

What he said about getting drunk suggests he's lying about being 'dry' too.

I doubt he'll be honest with you about not being able to commit to monogamy, but the evidence is staring you in the face.

It's not your fault and it's not personal. He conned you into thinking he was ready for a monogamous relationship. He isn't- with anyone.

Feeling very up and down today; my mind keeps lurching from feeling strong about being a single parent to feeling desperately upset about the future and the possibility of losing OH forever.

We have agreed to meet at our local park cafe on Sunday morning to have a proper talk and I've agreed to let him have ds tomorrow night and all day Saturday. Ds is realising something is different as he keeps asking for dadda and I just say he's at work atm but ds is now saying 'dadda no work'. He is okay though and, luckily, very easy to distract. It is breaking my heart each time though.

I'm trying to keep busy, have sanded down and polished an old cupboard today

Oh, I have been on the benefit check-up site and, it turns out, I would actually be better off financially without OH here

I think you need to be strong. You obviously love your OH, but you need to know that the love and respect is reciprocated.

That's great that you would be financially better off without him. At least that will ease the blow if you do decide that you don't want to be with him anymore.

Do you have friends and family in RL that can support you emotionally?

Thank you Salty, I do love him and although we aren't married I took our relationship as one that was forever.

I am incredibly lucky in that I am very close to my DM, step-dad and have a very good close friend that has put up with me this week! OH has even called my DM twice to try and explain his actions and to reassure her that he loves me and regrets hurting me.

MN is invaluable for objective advice though.

Definitely and sometimes it is easier to vent to people that don't know you in RL!

If you think he is sincere are you going to take him back? Is he taking you seriously now or still thinking that you are overreacting?

I really don't know, I was beginning to think (because of what he said) that I was overreacting but this thread has given me some strength to challenge that.

I really do believe in giving a relationship your all and working at it whenever possible and if he can convince me (I don't know how) that he will work to build up my trust in him again then I think I would probably give it another chance. I am so hurt though and it's difficult to make decisions when you can't stop crying.

I am telling you now that he has either cheated before (I think this is the most likely truth, and I would say many many times).

OR he taps up pretty much every attractive woman he meets in order to try and get sex and hasn't quite managed it yet (he keeps getting caught, the ow in question doesn't see it through etc).

There are people that say cheating is not the end of the world. That's fine, everyone's entitled to their own view and some couples can make things work after infidelities. But it is usually, eventually the end of a relationship because of the trust issue. Checking up on him, trying to control his movements, obsessing and panicking over what he's up to etc etc will kill your relationship in the end. His fault though, obviously.

I'm sorry x

I'm really sorry actually , this must be so painful for you x

I think you love him so much you are going to stay with him, the problem is, he probably knows that too so thinks he can get away with it!

You just need to lay down the law and also accept within yourself that if he does do it again then he has to go.

Have you heard the quote "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"....and this will be the 3rd time. You are fully aware what he is like so if he continues to do it, you are basically enabling his behaviour.

Proud, I really don't think he has. I may have been in the dark about those incidents but I just can't see he's done anything else. Maybe you're right though, I am starting to feel extremely naive.

Salty I do love him, I love the way he is with ds and the way he knows how to give me a hug at the right moment. I love that we can have belly laughs together as we have the same sense of humour. However, I don't love how he acts like a teenager in some ways and that, looking back, I've enabled him to be this way. I'm still too torn to make a decision.

I'm worried about ds, he knows something isn't right. When OH turned up after work to collect him, ds slammed the door in his face and turned to me and said 'no'. I thought I had done the right thing in preparing ds for dadda coming to see him and tried to share his excitement about sleeping at his gp's. I cried for half an hour after he left. He didn't go to sleep until 8:45pm but OH said he wasn't crying, just counting and singing. Is this normal behaviour? Any tips on how to deal with this period of separation for ds's sake please?

I agree with Proud that it's unlikely that the three times he's been at it with other women, you've managed to stumble on it.

He just isn't ready to commit to monogamy- I wish you could see this. The evidence of that is staring you in the face; 3 times in 3 years FFS and they are only the ones you know about. It's nothing about you that makes him this way either- I doubt he could be faithful to anyone. Such a shame he can't be honest about that with you, but even without that it seems obvious based on the evidence.

Well, I have had the discussion and have ended our relationship. I feel so raw and empty. I love him but it's not enough and I hope I can keep reminding myself of that over the coming weeks as I think it's going to be tough.

We agreed on access to ds and need to do a lot of mundane practical things this week, like changing the names on bills etc.

I am stunned, I didn't think I would do this but he has agreed to it too and still has no decent answer as to why he felt the need to act so deceitfully. He apologised a lot and kept saying that we are always going to be family. God, it hurts so much right now.

Thank you so much for your advice and support, I would still like some tips on making this as easy as possible for poor ds if you have any please? He's pretty confused.

You poor thing and your poor DS. How old is he?

It sounds like he didn't try too hard to change your mind and I think that is very telling. You will be better off without him.

How are you going to split custody etc?

hugs