So upset I don't have a mother in the traditional sense.

[sweetkitty]

Don't know where to start this but I got a bit upset this weekend and I know I shouldn't have as its the way it is.

We (DP and our 4 DC) went to visit my brother, his DS turned one last week and we couldn't go to hs party as my mother would have been there and it would have been too much to bear.

I haven't seen or spoken to my mother in 4 years. She has always been emotionally abusive with me, my brother is the golden child always has been. In her words I was an independent madam who didn't need her and I have always made her feel as if she was beneath me even as a child. The EA escalated and I had to move out when I was 19. We has quite a distant relationship until about 4 years ago I thought "why am I making any effort when she doesn't?" she has said and done loads of nasty things over the years. If I phoned her, the whole conversation would be about her and her woes, she deliberately tries to make me feel bad. In all the years she could never pay me a compliment or say anything nice about me. She is very resentful of me and the fact I went to uni although to everyone else she is so proud of me, the first one in our family to go to uni etc, she made out we had the perfect mother/daughter relationship. She also told me she never felt welcome in my house although her gifts and money always were, (much of the time I told her to keep any gifts as she would moan about how hard up she was).

I just stop making any effort then got a few letters from her which I replied to basically telling her all this but again nothing was her fault, everything mine. I gave up I the end, returned any gifts she sent etc.

She is totally misogynistic in that men are better than women, she has told me that you at only a real woman if you have a son and that all men want a son and DP would leave me if I couldn't give him one. DD1 she was happy about 1st grandchild and all that, DD2 she couldn't have cared less about and DD3 I was crazy to have (told me it was for the best I have a mc whilst mcing). I could write all day about the things she has said to me.

So now I visit my brother to hear about how much of a doting grandma she is and it hurts, I knew my brothers DC would always have taken precedence over mine but she has my nephew over one night a week to give them a break, childminds whilst SIL works etc (even though she's told me a woman's place is in the home and your DH would leave you if your earned more than him).

The thing is I don't want her in my or the DCs lives, we are all better off for her not being in our lives but I want a mother like what she is being to my nephew. My MIL was lovely but she's dead now so my DCs only have one GP my Dad, DP and I are in our own with four DC (I had the hallowed boy fourth time around she's never saw him) and its hard.

Ive had counselling as I've suffered from depression, anxiety and have very low self esteem, I know she probably has NPD, I know this is common between mothers and daughters, one black sheep, one golden child. But it still bloody hurts, I get angry at myself for allowing her to annoy me but then think "why me" TBH I was a great daughter never a minutes worry, went to uni, good job etc.

Thank you if you have read this far.

Fellowship, how you managed to deal with all that at such a young age astounds me! I'm 44 and although only realised the dynamic a couple of years ago, its SO hard to deal with, it hurts SO much.

Hats off to you girl!

I wish I could miss my mum....when I was with her she was very abusive....beat me, verbally abusive......then at the age of 7 she kicked me out. Told me I was to live with my dad...who was a complete mess, or go to a home. I tried to bond with her at 14 but realised that her life scenarios were more important to her than I was....so never went back....Haven't seen her for 33 years. Her about her from my siblings. Think that's why I over compensate with m children...they are not spoilt, but I am there for them whenever they need me. Truely feel that my parents should not have had children.

This thread really resonates with me at the moment.

Like so many of you, I am the sister of golden boys. One of my brothers can see the wood for the trees, but her very favourite is totally trapped in a horrible cycle of obligation, and fighting her battles, at the cost of our relationship.

I haven't seen her for over 6 months now, and a big part of me misses her, but I don't miss being treated like the shot off her shoe. I did try seeing her with my brothers but I soon realised this is when she is at her absolute worst: divide and conquer, ostracise and feel powerful.

I've tried only seeing her at her house, so I can just leave, but I find it unnerving seeing pictures of my brothers and their partners everywhere, and all of her mad shit that frankly represents how fucking unhinged she is.

I've tried only seeing her at my house, on my turf and on my terms. But she has been so utterly awful towards me in my own home. Sneering accusations of abuse of my own child.

Just typing all of this out has been quite helpful. In the run up to Christmas I have been dreading the pressure to see her, the bullying if I stand my ground, the disappointment in me for 'maintaining this feud'. I know that if I happen to see her I will be pleased, it was almost be a relief, just to see my mum. But she'll see this, and she'll be mocking me.

Hi there,

So much of your post resonates with my own situation. I don't have any advice, because I'm still trying to work my way through. For me, the clear as day realisation that we can't and won't have a relationship, and I have tried many times, was when I realised that she was golden child/scapegoating my own children and I won't let her do that. I'm done.

The other thing I think is that my mum and my sister (golden child) have a relationship which is so completely different from mine that I don't have the same mother as her. My mum is two different people, really. I also think (and I hesitate to say this because I can't get my head around this really) that my sister enables her behaviour, because she takes and does not appear to question.

The problem is really that I have now hit the point where I don't want to even try, but my dad is in poor health and I don't know how to explain to DD that we aren't going to see them really(DS is too small to understand). But my mum is toxic and now that I realise, it feels like being poisoned, slowly, little by little because I have internalised so much negativity from her.

It would be nice to have a normal mother, to have some support, to feel part of a family - but I guess my way around it is to try to be a good mum myself and not let the toxicity go another generation.

There is a lot of shame for me. People just do not understand how on earth I could have such a dire relationship with my own mother. I am judged as dysfunctional, me who loves and cares for DC.

Sweetkitty, so much of your post rings true for me too. I have lived my life abiding by all the rules and have always tried to do what is morally right. I have 2 brothers both of whom are the golden children. It's the eldest one that is the problem for me. He has lived his life flitting from one relationship to another, has always cheated on every woman he has ever had. He's been married 3 times and has 5 children by 4 women. He is a blatant liar yet his sh*t always smells like roses.
He can do no wrong in my mothers eyes yet I can do no right. My mother definitely favoured his children over mine and obviously so. This was just one of the many reasons why I cut her out of my life 2 years ago and it was the best thing I have ever done.

It does hurt every now and then when I think to myself "what have I done to deserve such a shitty mother?" or "why couldn't I have had a 'proper' mother?".

I know what it is like to have people judge you for not having a relationship with your mother. People who are lucky enough to have a fantastic relationship with their parents just do not understand and this is what I find the hardest, having to explain myself or justify to these people.

I live in a small community of which my mother is a part and she is very good at playing the martyr and being oh so lovely to everyone else so that no one can understand why I think she is so awful and they think I'm the one with the problem. I have long since realised that anyone that matters to me knows the truth.

Thanks Hissy TBH, I grew up with barely any relationship with my Mum, so it wasn't hard breaking ranks. I used to think our relationship was normal, until a friend asked why I let her treat me so badly, what was I gaining from it? It hit me hard that realisation that, actually, I didn't have to put up with it, that I left home at 16 so had to leave college and give up all my aspirations at the time, yet I still tried to maintain a relationship with her. I have what I want from life now, and I do possibly spoil my two a bit, but I would never ever treat them like that. Everything is equal, if one gets something, so does the other.

It does get easier, not better, but you get used to it, as I say I have an epic support network in my DSILs who are amazing to me.

I can't believe that so many mothers are like this

What is wrong with them?

I've often wondered that, you expect to be in a minority but then you get chatting and find out others have had similar situations with a parent or both parents.
I used to wonder if it was where my Mum was very young when she married (19 in the late 70s) and then had me at 22 and my sister at 25. But that said, I met my DP at 18 (although we've never married) and I had my dd at 25 and my ds at 27. And I like to think (hope) I'm nothing like her to either of them!

I spoke previously about my mum, which I haven't done so in many years.....she was abusive both physically and mentally, kicked me out at the age of 7...steppid in and out of my life for a few years while I tried to get to know her, realising that she was not interested. Then she officially disowned me 20 years ago saying that I was never her child and then today I am told that she has acute leukaemia. How am I supposed to feel about that.

Its hard isn't it?

When I was told my Mum had cancer, everyone expected me to feel devastated. I didn't. I just felt numb. You know how if a casual acquaintance or friend or family of a friend gets diagnosed with cancer or something bad happens to them and you feel sorry for them? That's how I felt. I even went to my GP and asked him if it was wrong not to feel much about it, and he said no, there wasn't as the human mind is good at detaching itself from things that hurt us. So, if you feel that numbness, thats normal!

I haven't spoken to mine in 3 years, though it is my sister who is the golden child (I have no brothers).

I don't miss them, I still have nightmares (though thankfully after 3 years these are weekly rather than daily) but I miss having a mum & dad, a family that are mine. I have no contact with any family member.

My dh family is lovely, I have wonderful friends, but I know at the end of the day if, god forbid, me and dh ever split up, he as the main carer would have the children and I would have nothing. His family are his and my friends have their own families. It would just be me.

And I know if I ever fuck up completely, apart from my children, who are still just children and shouldn't have to put up with that, there is no one who does or has ever loved me completely, unconditionally and irregardless of anything I could do.

I don't know what the point is, but sometimes I want that one person who will fight my cause no matter what and will love me unconditionally and be there to support me whatever I do. And I don't and I never did and I never will.

If I die tomorrow there is no one to tell my children about my life pre dh - not the crap, but what I was like as a child and what stuff I did, what my favourite toy was etc.

God that's so awful, reading that you feel that way.

Of course you are loved and surely your DH would fight your corner whatever? I know my dp would (and has done).

If you really are that worried about your dcs should, God forbid, anything happen to you, about them not knowing anything about you pre your marriage, then make a book. Just buy a scrap book from WHSmith or staples or similar, and fill it with pictures, photos, and write down everything you'd want them to know. You know, favourite bands, where you grew up, what school you went to, anything you think might be relevant. Then, when nothing awful happens to you, you will still have this brilliant record for future generations.

I know how hard it is to detach. It gets somewhat, but not completely, easier. The fact you have nightmares though concerns me a great deal, perhaps counselling could help you go through what you went through?

The thing I always think is that, you need to realise that this was NOT your fault. Not at all. These parent/s they were adults, who should have known better. You are not to blame, you are the victim here. It is awful how many cases of this kind slip through the net- the problem is detection. I never had bruises on my body, never looked neglected, had clean clothes and was an a student. BUT if they could have looked inside, at how wretched I felt because of the words she used to me, well, if words were bruises I'd have been taken into care in minutes.

thanks fellowshipoffestive fellows......good to hear another opinion......I am involved by supporting my sisters and brother, and do feel bad that my 'mum' is so ill, but not for who she is, but for the fact that I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Nothing I can do for her......just be there for those that matter really.

I keep meaning to do some kind of scrapbook for my kids but can never face it. I have no photos of me up till I was old enough to have a camera and then very few (less than 5 maybe?) as I was the one holding the camera. I think it is something I do want to do though. I want them to know I had a life and experiences beside the abuse. That it isn't everything I was or went through.

Most of the time I can cope with it its just I have a stomach bug and am feeling generally sorry for myself and it drags me down.

I had a fantastic therapist who pointed out a lot of people are in a similar situation for a variety of reasons - family overseas, dead, unable to provide support for other reasons. And at the end of the day we are born alone and die alone irregardless of who we are.

And yes dh has fought for me and supported me against my family.

TBH in a way having my background has empowered me. I know surviving what I survived has meant that I can face anything and come out okay I was driven to the brink of complete insanity and came back. If I can do that, I can do anything else I want

Making a book is a good idea....as I too don't have any family or anything that knew me when I was little......so I have written a story based on my childhood....what my mum did to me and how I coped with things...it is done in such a way that it is a story........it was my therapy, but I am seriously thinking of publishing it. I have changed the names of the people in it so noone would be able to relate the story to my life......and I will use another name to pubish it too. My children know I have written this book and have told them that they would be able to read it when they are much older. Not done in a vindictive way either.....do a book.....helps sort oyur mind out too...

I completely get this, I haven't spoken to my mother for two years, although she was the one who broke contact for crazy, messed-up reasons of her own.

My brother, who has Asperger's, was the golden child. He could do no wrong, while nothing I did was ever good enough. Even in hobbies and interests that we shared, he was encouraged while I was told to give up because I'd never be any good.

When she broke contact, it was tough, and I tried to keep the lines of communication open. But I've come to realise that I don't need her negative influence in my life, without her I am a much happier, more confident person. I'm just stunned that it took me so long to realise this.

Because of this, I'm also finally able to break out of toxic friendships too. I have a close group of friends and a family of my own, all of whom love me unconditionally, as I deserve. I don't need or want anything more.

So sad to hear all these stories. I think it's worse when you become a parent yourself and you know how much you love your children, that you would die for them 10 times over. You think "how could you do that to me, I'm your child"

I keep joking that I want to get adopted, there must be a childless couple out there in their 60s, would want a grown up daughter, a SIL and 4 Grandchildren.

I'll adopt you

I've posted many times about my mum.

She is toxic - sly, untrustworthy, stupid, selfish, self pitying, unaware, insensitive, intolerant (she does have some good points too actually, genuinely. She is a wonderful grandmother to my dc - though not to my brother's).

This week she has sent spiteful texts to me, followed by guilt tripping, gushing, apologetic emails and though I have become a dabhand at disengaging and ignoring, I am dying inside with all the confusion and emotion.

You only get one mother and MINE IS SHIT!!

Sorry there are so many of us and sorry to vent about my own situation, Sweetkitty, but I'm kind of posting in a sisterly solidarity kinda way honest.

Am crying and I never cry...dammit...!

Lottapianos - I think my mother has narcissist tendencies.

I had a similar relationship with my dad, although he died before I married or had kids. I had some counselling after he died & they said to me - "it sounds to me like it never would have been right, even if he lived till he was a hundred. It's not your fault, sometimes it's just like that." That helped me enormously, it made me see that whatever I had done, how ever 'good' i'd been, it would never have been enough. I was able to move on. Also, have you considered mindfullness meditation? It really helps focus on the now & what is special in the moment, not what is missing from it. Stick mindfullness into Amazon books & see what it comes up with & if anything takes your fancy.

My dad died last year and in february my mum sent a text to my brother saying she hoped he'd come back and haunt me and you know it was like something snapped physically in me, not in an angry way just like thats it enough is enough. I havent spoken to her since and I am happier than Ive ever been in many ways. I occasionally feel physically crippled with grief at the loss of my dad and the mum I should have had but Im slowly coming round to the idea that it was never what it should have been and never will be, but it doesnt stop me mourning that loss and feeling sad for all of you who are in the same situation. Can I ask those of you that have had counselling how do you go about it? Is it GP referral and how do you know if theyre any good? Am thinking of trying it but dont know where to start.

Arfur, counselling really helped me. I had it about 11/12 years ago, it was a private counsellor recommended by a friend. I paid a minimal amount because she helped out people who couldn't pay full whack. However if you have a good GP, then def start there. You should get a referral.

It's worth remembering that not all counsellors are good so it can take one or two meetings to find the right one. Mine was absolutely perfect for me - got the bones of me and my family immediately. She was actually very, very funny and a bit of a maverick with some of the hilariously unprofessional things she said about my mother! But I loved that - I felt she was totally on my side and believed me. The main thing I came away with was:

1. It's not my fault
2. My mother will never change
3. It's ok not to love your parent - the world won't implode if you admit that to yourself
4. Keep these toxic parents at arm's length, never trust them
5. It is OK to cut contact if they are blighting your life

I got counselling through my gp because of having quite bad mental health problems because of my upbringing. I had CBT which helped enormously (I didn't really know what it was when I started).

I tried talking therapy but we both decided within a few minutes I knew why I was the way I was, I had gone through books -toxic parents by susan forward and controlling parents by Dan Neuarth and latterly Children of the self absorbed by Nina Brown and Will I ever be good enough by Karyl McBride - and talked through a lot of stuff with my dh and friends, so talking therapy wasn't for me.

While waiting for NHS therapy I did have a few sessions of talking therapy provided free by a charity who have been supporting me up till recently, they also until the last couple of months got a volunteer to phone me at least once a week (this is one of the things they do). If I ever win the lottery I'll give half of it to them as I'm not sure I would have survived without them. They are a local charity who support women post natally with mental health problems (although mine weren't related to the pregnancy/birth and I was pregnant though with an older child when they started supporting me).

The therapist does make a difference - my CBT therapist was fantastic and I think the fact we clicked made the whole thing much better/more effective as she seemed to understand me.

I tried 'if you and your mother can't be friends' but found it was written very much for those who were staying in contact with their mother and looking to forgive them and so not for me.

It's amazing there are so many of these mothers. Do you think their mothers were all as bad so that's all they know? I know my grandmother was a terrible parent and my mother had a horrific childhood.

So I find myself making excuses for her behaviour because although my childhood was quite terrible it was nowhere near as bad as my mother's. But, despite this (or perhaps because of it) I will do everything in my power to make sure DS never experiences a lack of love or is made to feel there is something wrong with him because of my inadequacies. So why couldn't my mother have done the same?

Mine sounds similar to Proudnscary's mother in that she does have some good points and she can be lovely. But, I find this so hard to deal with because you never know whether you're going to get nice or nasty and when she's nice I feel guilty that I'm too hard on her. In some ways it would be easier if she was always horrible then at least you could deal with the worst aspects and you wouldn't have the hope that she might actually turn into the nice person you see glimpses of.

I'm having counselling at the moment and my counsellor said my heart had been broken by her when I was a child and have been carrying around this hurt all my life. Until I'm able to accept she is who she is and that she wasn't able to be the mother I wanted her to be, then I won't be in a position to forgive her and move on. Does this make sense to anyone else?