Relationship with my stepchildren is over and I need some advice, sad situation all 'round really...

[ScarahScreams]

Very long back story, of course, but to be as brief as possible and not out anyone involved here - here goes. SC are a Man and Woman now just turned legal "adult age". I suppose this is cathartic for me to write this all out for the first time, but I would also really welcome any advice from anyone who has been through similar or if you are a SC who eventually warmed to your SM after years of difficulty. I feel so utterly low about it all really.

I met DH after his separation and both him and their M made new lives with new partners quite rapidly. I, we, have always had v regular contact and paid above and beyond what any CSA would dictate. DH spent time alone with them, tried over 10 years not to rock any boats, never reproached them for their behavior as we ventured into teenage years (I see the huge mistakes we made now). I have genuinely been only kind to them, tried to be a friend, a listening ear, ignored the really horrible treatment, made all the excuses that they were children of divorce and it must have been hard. Reality is they got everything they wanted, we welcomed them with open arms and just got insulted and hatred. This x100 after I had DD but that's a whole thread in itself...

I have never, ever been given a kind work from them in 10 years. Just realised that today. They blew hot and cold with DD 6 who adores them. The last time SS came to visit (he wanted something we had in the house) he was actually horrible to her. DH and I witnessed this treatment of an innocent child and finally said no more.

I have said to DH that I don't want myself or DD to have any contact anymore, in the present circs. I have had 10 years but can't take the negativity and hatred from them bleeding into my daughter. We don't see them much anyway but it's sort of the last straw for his to be so vile to her in front of us both - he is a grown man now. The first time in 10 years I made a stand and unless I have an apology and change of behavior I am not seeing either of them again. DH is so very broken and we just don't know what on earth we have done, why we have always been the bad guys despite their Mother making a new life in the same way. He feels that whatever he says he is told what a crap father he is and that I am always around but he had been desperate to have a good relationship with them - they reject him for 10 years. I wonder if that is it or if there is hope for the future.

Keep lines of communication open but equally keep firm boundaries as to what is acceptable behaviour in your home- kindness, not being rude or cruel etc.

Don't ever make the mistake of trying to encourage your DH not to see them, with or without you being present. It'll backfire.

I had a terrible time with my two of my Steps and even now I feel we are potentially a few paces away from a temper tantrum (and they are all adult) but I have step parents myself so that helps me keep perspective. They now know that I didn't break up their parent's marriage and that actually their Mother was involved in an affair long before I met their Father after they were separated. As hard as it is to tell truths like that to teenagers, sometimes you have no choice so as to build a relationship unskewed by half truths or dishonesties.

My step-D threw a glass in my face and chucked a heavy table at me once and it has taken 7 years to re-build a relationship. We insisted that until she apologised, she could not come to our house. However Dh still met up with her for lunch etc until she finally capitulated. We now get on ok and I know she knows that I will always help and support her. I have accepted that they do not have to like or love me but they do have to respect my home and my person.

I hope you and DH are showing a very united and happy front to them.

Despite how much they appear to admire SD both he and their DM sound manipulative and there will be flaws and as SCs get older they will probably become more aware of this. They can put on a 'we've got a great SD' act the same as they can put on a lack of respect for you and DH.

It's also a big gap between them and their siblings. I had no time for my poor sis who was 8 years younger than me (until we were in our 20s/30s!)

May that is what I say to him - we must present united and positive. I was always very keen to show them boundaries and discipline but DH v reluctant. We were both a bit scared of them really, really stupid.

Honestly, they are big kids now. Let your DH parent them.

But you have EVERY right to expect respect for your DC. I don't give a rats arse how my DSD treat me (which to be fair, is good... they are good kids) but I WILL NOT have my children marginalised. My children are not part of the 'game'. No way.

You have every right to expect your children to be treated as siblings - in every which way. financially, emotionally. They are part of your DSCs lives, whether they like it or not.

If you and DH are a happy and supportive family with DS and you make SCs welcome then it is their loss if they choose to refuse it.

I would get some advice from experts on how to move forward, how to speak to SCs etc

Scarah - sounds like a really shitty situation for you and your DD, has your DH pulled his DS up on his attitude to your DD? Because that is one boundary he really should be very clear about.

You might find it reassuring to know that the human brain does not mature until we reach our mid-20s, so your SC are still very much in the middle of their journey towards adulthood. It's why young adults have such an odd (from an adult PoV) attitude to risk and appear to be so self-centred and so very black and white in their views.

Hopefully, if you can hang on in there some how, things will gradually improve.

Sounds to me like their mother may have been lighting a fire under them re you and your DH.

anyway, you've gone from being as soft as blancmange to as hard as iron - somewhere in the middle may be the way to go. You can't do a 'right! that's IT!' after years and years of indulging them and being incredibly soft.

As someone upthread said, at that age they're very black and white about life, full of righteous indignation. You can get steely but please don't add to the drama of the thing. Just get a glint in your eye. They'll respect you for it - eventually. Once they get over the shock. It's them treating your DD badly that has finally woken you up - so, yes, use that as a starting point. That it's entirely unacceptable. Then work from there - a clean broom.

I'd advise getting as much info about the developmental stages of kids at this age (and they are kids, 18 or not. Not all 18/22yo's are kids, but they clearly are - and no wonder if the entire world has been configured around them and their 'feelings') - do some parenting courses for teenagers, as their behaviour sounds very teenagey; read up on all the books. But DON'T be soft and sweet - they're laughing at you and part of them sees it as an insult.

Calm is the way to go. Not calm/soft but calm/resolute. Their dad needs to do some work here - he's been a pushover, coiled up with angst about it all. Kids read that very differently to the way it's intended - they don't respect the one who is tortured with guilt, see it as weakness and, black and white again, expect him to stand up like a man and be black and white himself, someone they can rely on. What a relief for everyone concerned especially his kids if he blows away the cobwebs and gets on with it.

Do please, both of you, ditch the tortured angst. You're adults, both his kids need him more than they can possibly know or express. They need him to be a hero, not a brow-beating tortured softie - they are simply not interested in that. He needs to be a larger-than-life Dad like the movies. Forget the grey areas; they only read, and want, black and white.

talking to myself here

...meaning! I'm benefitting from my own advise NOT that you aren't listening!

Just to labour that point!

The honest truth is you have made this situation by making excuses for them, so what they had divorced parents in my book does not allow them to be rude to anyone. You should have pulled them up a long while ago, if they are openly rude and hostile to you do you really think they would have more scruples when it co es to how they treat a child? Stand up to them and demand respect finally!

AND - it's your house and your marriage - what you say goes. You've been married for 10 years for goodness sake - all this standing on the outside business - please, take your place . Perhaps the 'don't mind me' has come home to roost? And tell your husband you're a force to be reckoned with and won't facilitate him treating them like hospital patients or your daughter being treated with the same contempt they treat you and him.

If they've been allowed to treat you like shit thus far, they're not going to stop treating you like shit just because they turn 18 or 21 or some other arbitrary age. You need to start standing up to them in a firm but calm way and make it clear that you're not going to let them treat you and your DD disrespectfully anymore.

I wish I had MN 10 yrs ago. You are all right.

In my defence I was 21 and clueless as how to handle the situation I found myself in with a man with children. I just thought they would like me if I was nice to them. I hope you all understand that.

I haven't seen my adult SC for many years as my DH sees them on his own away from our home. I can honestly say having no contact with them has made my life much easier and happier. It means they spend time alone with their father for a few hours. It's a win-win situation!

OP, you don't need to see SC at all if you don't want to, just support your DH seeing them away from your house.

of course I do! I've done the same stupid thing with my kids, and didn't have 21yoa in my favour. I had divorce and bereavement which made me go stupidly soft; plus a step-mother who has lured them away with lots of £££ (so I do know how 'emasculating' it feels - and I'm a woman! - to have someone try to take your place). Even though teenagers are tarts around money they don't respect someone who uses it to buy a relationship with them - tell your husband that. They are crying out for you to step up, whether they know it or not.

Did your DH instigate the marriage break up? In my own experience and from what I've seen children will take the side of the partner 'left behind' and any new partner will be hated no matter how nice they are.
I hated my step mother for this unfathemable reason for about 15 years. As other posters have said I 'grew up' and now get on really well. It's unfair but nothing personal. I really regret how awful I was and have recently apologised to her and my dad. It takes becoming an adult , I.e grown up with your own kids, to see the error of your ways.

knackered, how old were you before you 'woke up'? (just trying to get some solace here...)

and btw OP, don't tell them what you're doing, don't send a map and compass: just change. Shift, like driving on the right when you've been driving on the left. Definitely don't explain (because they'll manipulate you to the hilt if they know what you're doing); stay resolute when all hell breaks loose that the goalposts have changed (and they will certainly complain that you have the audacity to stand up to them, so brace yourself). Not nice, not nasty, definitely not 'kind'. Kind has to be off the menu for the forseeable because they're drowning in 'kind'.

I'm embarrassed to say I was 32 years old. It really took having my own kids to see my dad as another adult rather than my dad IySWIM. It is difficult to have true empathy and understanding as a young adult.

scarah, it doesn't matter that we understand you (although it seems we do)

like somebody said, this is your life and your family

you have a place in it...so take it and stop acting like a second class citizen

I would make sure your H understands this very clearly, because he has certainly (in his guilt?) been remiss in making sure you are accorded the respect you deserve

out of interest, how old was he when you got together, and was his relationship with you implicated in his leaving his wife and children ?

I don't know why you're embarrassed knackered - some people never grow up enough to get there at all! You have given me hope. Perhaps if we, OP and OP's DH, get on with our lives and stop flopping around in agony things may move along quicker iyswim.

Sounds like you are doing the right thing in saying that there will be no contact unless it is kind and appropriate contact with your DD. She needs protecting at this stage.
Sound like from what you have said, your H has been blamed by them for breaking up the marriage and even if they wanted to like you they couldn't stop punishing him for messing up their childhood as they percive it. It's not right that this is now extended to your DD.
For what it's worth, your SDC are presumably pretty unhappy themselves, let's hope they find some happiness and stop losing out on their family.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts.
No I was not implicated whatsoever in the break up and his ex met her new husband almost to the day that I met DH. They both made new lives but he was always the bad guy I have no idea why honestly no clue.
He is much older than me.

some families have to have someone to kick about, particularly if some bad stuff has gone down and people either don't want to or aren't encouraged to (re the kids) carry their own emotional pain. It's usually the sensitive one they nominate, often the one who is decent and dots the emotional 'i's (plays fair). It gets entrenched.

No time like the present to turn that ocean liner around!

OP did your dh instigate the marriage breakup? That's probably why he was the bad guy if so. It's really irrational but rational to the dc.

Your SDC may have been teased about their Dad finding a much younger woman. As I'm sure you are aware, there can be an attitude that a man who chooses a much younger woman is either a player or a bit of an inadequate - or both, someone may have instilled this in the SDC and they may feel really confused with wanting to love their Dad but feeling shame and feeling embarrassed that their SM is so much younger than their M.
Anyway, the fact is, you were very young, you have suffered and it is time to not be bullied now and to make sure that your DD can grow up feeling as secure as is possible.

yes, I think the fact that you are possibly closer in age to the children than to him would have caused a lot of bad feeling initially

it can be hard to get over that, for children of that age

they would have been teased at school, I expect, and a lot of judgements would have been made by many people around them

I assume you were aware of that at the time...you choose a much older man already with a family and there are going to be downsides ?

hmm, don't tell me you were that naive ?