Useless Husband. Or is it me?

[AutumnMadness]

I seriously need help. I am so sick of fighting with my husband about housework. I really do not want a divorce. My complaints: He cannot do nearly anything besides his job and his hobby. We both work full-time, doing the same job, and have a toddler son. We've been together for nearly five years. The problems were less visible when we did not have a child and lived in a small rented house, but really intensified since I gave birth and we bought a house.

We just had another fight, so forgive me for being incoherent as I am very upset. Substance of fight: I am feeling rather shitty today because of a cold. DH gets up with the DS (good). But immediately sticks him in front of the telly (we previously agreed a million times that DS is only allowed about 30 min, max an hour of cartoons in the evenings before dinner, but DH routinely uses telly as a babysitter). Then DH decides to clean the kitchen which is a tip since yesterday as I was not feeling well and went to bed early. DH empties the dishwasher and puts dirty dishes in it. Then he cleans the stove. I come down, praise him profusely, and ask him to wash the floor as it is caked with food. A bit later I come into the kitchen, find the stove and the floor still caked with food after DH "washed" them. There are still dirty dishes sitting here and there and the wooden counters are soaking with water. At this point, I am not annoyed as this is rather routine. I proceed to clean the kitchen while feeding DS lunch. In the afternoon, I ask DH to take DS for a walk as he really needs some exercise and is going crazy in the house. DH proceeds to whine about how rainy it is (it's not) and suggests that we put DS in front of cartoons (see above on telly). Then we dress DS. DH starts zipping his shoes before DS's foot is fully in them. I point this out. DH has a hissy fit about how "wrong" the shoes are. At this point, I've had enough and I explode.

I just hate this endless arguing, especially as DS invariably ends up as a witness. But it seems the DH just cannot do anything right. He cannot complete a cleaning job. He very rarely cooks and is utterly insecure about cooking (still cannot tell when sausages are done despite me showing him a million times). He cannot do DIY (I do it all). I look after the bills, car and house insurance. He has been promising me for years to sign up for driving lessons (I ferry him to his hobby). I deal with things like findings tradesmen to do work on our house and manage their work.

I just don't know what to do. DH has good sides (e.g. looks after DS at least once a week when I go to my hobby in the evening), but this generally child-like helplessness is driving me mad.

He des sound a bit bullied tbh, hanging washing out wrong etc- he must be a nervous wreck or wondering how long he can bear it. However he coud tell you to stop micromanaging surely? There are many was to do things and if you can't let him do it his way then you do but without moaning. Is he too scared of starting a row to tell you?

DIY, if you hate it then do the essential and list other stuff to be paid for when money's there. Or tell him you will be handy manny fr the day and he can look after ds from dawn to dusk with him doing all meals and bringing you tea.
Personally I hate DIY and am hopeless but we are ok with gender stereotypes in our house:)

However it's his house too, and maybe he could take on the garden as a project with your ds? Not just the green fingered bit but fence mainenance etc.

Hs hobby- well tbh all day hobbies went out of the window when we had dc. I won't drive him to it, and tosh about mobile signals- if he coud he get o a shop he coud get to a by station or use a landline to go home . Or book a taxi. Sell it on eBay:) you could look at him doing the intensive week driving course?

Must say what job has he that is a good job and doesn't drive? How has he managed not t drive, being dependant on people? Lazy or always better things to do with money? What do you want him to change into? Or do you want to change?

Well, you might have high standards, on the other hand he might be following the tried and tested rule of doing something badly so he doesn't get asked to do it again. And it is possible to hang washing so it doesn't dry quickly or allow the creases to drop out.

He possibly needs a kick uta but I'm not sure how to best go about it to get a more positive effort from him.

And how complex is the do-it-yourself that he is unable to help??

Mind you I would have been happy for DP to amuse the DCs for a day whilst I decorated the lounge. Does he take responsibility for everything else while you DIY. He should.

What is he doing whilst you do 70% of the housework??

It sounds as if he is being lazy and that doesn't bode well.

Can you decide what really is important to you eg that he cooks, or would it be better if you cooked whilst he minded DS. eg that the kitchen floor is cleaned once a week until a piece of kitchen towel wiped across it comes up nearly clean eg etc etc.

Having decided what those are sit with DP and decide who does what to what standard, letting you choose turn about, and it's not you doling out jobs that he might particularly dislike, and then you both do them without fail, no excuses. And anything less important to you can be let go and ignored. Then you should have less reason to feel disappointed or disgruntled with him. Also you should spell out things clearly so there is no dispute as to what has to be done. Just 'tidy the kitchen' is too vague. Hopefully he might improve.

The tv thing would annoy me but for one offs like you full of cold and the kitchen a shit tip, I'd let him watch a bit more than agreed.

Sounds like you think half an hour viewing time is ok, and your DH thinks something else is ok. Find out what that is, then meet somewhere in the middle if you possibly can.

I think you need to do a couple of things that help me be less uptight about things and makes life nicer for the people around me!:

Ask yourself "what's the worst that can happen" or "does it really matter?"
This will help you keep your mouth shut and stop watching/nagging your husband as much.

Also I use the 3x rule. DP leaves his great big mucky work boots in the middle of the hall floor all nice and ready for me to trip over, I don't say a thing, the second time he does it I think I'll say something if he does that again. The third time I'll say something.

So wait 3 times before saying anything, quite often the 3rd time won't come. It means you only speak about more important stuff rather than every little thing.

Hey OP, you sound like me and I have a lot of sympathy for your predicament. I think you've been very honest about how frustrating it is when your Dp doesn't pull his weight and you don't deserve to be called a control freak. I don't agree with some posters that its ok for him to do jobs badly because that's his way of doing it. None of us were born knowing how to clean the stove properly but not knowing how seems to be a common excuse. Read Wifework, it's an excellent take on the subject (it's on Amazon but I can't remember the author). One tip is to divide the chores so that something eg washing is always his job, so he learns from practice how to do it well, and knows you won't step in to do it when he "forgets" or "doesn't have time". The Lazy Husband is another good read along similar lines. Ps just because your ex was similar does not make it your fault either!

Hmm I hate to be the voice of doom BUT I know many, many relationships like yours and I would guess am about 10 years older than you. My friends and I have dc of roughly 10-12 years old.

In the last two years many marriages have fallen apart (4 that I can think of) over 'just' domestic squabbles/drudgery.

It can wear a relationship down and erode your love for each other.

I sympathise hugely with how you feel living with a manchild -he sounds infuriatingly rubbish and unaware of what needs to get done. But I totally agree you are micro managing him and although you say you don't say anything 90% of the time, boy will he feel your disapproval and anger all the time.

It is essential you try to sort this out by a) talking truthfully and honestly about how this makes both of you feel, b) GET A CLEANER/DISHWASHER/IRONER WHATEVER YOU CAN AFFORD - YES IT ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY IS WORTH THROWING MONEY AT THIS AND YES THAT CAN BE A MARRIAGE SAVER!!! and c) make a huge effort to do things together - dinners out, dates, hobbies together, get pissed and have a laugh or go for impromptu weekends away.

Otherwise you will turn round in 5-10 years time and realise there's no love left.

What I found worked best was to do tasks at the same time, so they are not forgotten.
Say one cooks dinner, while the other does the ironing, etc.

On the right and wrong ways, if it makes a difference (clothes don't dry, or get ruined in the washing) then explain what you find is the best way.
Other details don't matter.

It would have surely been cheaper to get a taxi home to get the "forgotton" item. But you were good not uttering a word - possibly next time being off his back he will not forget the items he needs as he has made his own mistake and sorted his own mistake without you doing this for him.

Controlling also equals mothering and then him behaving in the way you mother him, by being the son of the family that never grew up. Stopping controlling him will mean not mothering him and will be hard for you to keep your mouth shut, but will be worth it in the end

Like if he did drive and every year you went for a drive to his old friends, every year you had to tell him which junction to get off the motorway. Then one year you don't tell him, he then realises and turns round and after that he never needs telling again. Let him sort things out his way and he will not need mothering or controlling but you need to have patients and keep your mouth zipped and allow this to happen

He folds the laundry wrong, loads the dishwasher wrong, hands out laundry wrong, etc., but I keep my gob shut about it 90% of the time.

As other posters have said, I think there are other issues here.

OP, I was you (apart from the driving) 2 years ago. With my maternity leave and DH getting a more responsible job, we fell into bad habits of me running the household and doing virtually all the parenting. I felt overwhelmed by it all when I went back to work, yelled at him for not 'seeing' what needed to be done around the house and yelled at him even more for not doing things 'properly' when he tried to take on more to even the load.

We tried the rota thing, but I couldn't let go whilst I still felt I had 'oversight' and kept nagging if it wasnt up to my standards. We finally agreed that I would hand over responsibility for certain things. I retain the day to day running stuff like laundry, food shopping/cooking and putting out the bins, whilst he took over DIY, ironong, floor cleaning/vacuuming and lawn mowing - ie stuff that I didn't like doing[hsmile]. We do 50/50 child care, but I don't question how he chooses to spend time with DS (unless for safety reasons ). There are worse things for DS than a bit too much cbeebies - like arguing parents for example.

This approach has worked for us. We are close to 50/50 for 'me time' (my job is only half the hours of his), and I no longer 'see' the floors or ironing etc. He's actually becoming quite house proud, and we respect each others contributions.

Sorry this has got a bit long - just intended as a suggestion if the rota doesn't work out!

I don't see any point for arguments here! He does not know how to clean....Is it a crime of the century!?
Hire a cleaner, and send him work overtime while you paint you nails.
Problems in the house over a housework is a learned behaviour.
Get some sexy staff for bedroom department.
Tell him ''honey I am going to bathroom making myself gourgeous for you whilst you do the cleaning (but don't expect much, be realistic), and you get your wages in kind'.
Sneak once in a while downstairs and tell him that for clean kitchen he will be able to choose his treat if he does the job well, and of course it is up to you to decide how good he cleaned. Engage with him in a play, tease him.
Remember..........do it as a game and smile, nothing makes man work harder than the prize.
Good for you and great for him, although I would suggest if should be great for both of you!

let ds watch tv while he cleaned up the kitchen? sounds sensible to meotherwise what was ds and him supposed to do?

and if is cbeebies rather than disney channel well cbeebies is great.

loads the dishwasher "wrong" -as was said -what is the worst that can happen? my ex did this to me - jsut one example of controlling behaviour - so the worst was - a cup would end up filled with water (boo hoo - tip it out!) or cutlery didnt get clean properly - boo hoo - rinse and repeat. it is not the end of the world.. sorry but you sound terribly controllling

that you drive him an hour to his hobby? well that must change -not fair to drag Ds around like this unless there is something great where the hobby is. he learns to drive/uses public transport//shares rides or he gives up for now.

that you do DIY and he doesnt - ? well what is the big issue. let him do other things like entertain ds.

or pay someone.

i think the point about you taking on a mothering role to him is one to think about. you and him should be equal partners.
the DS is the child.

Hi Everyone, thank you again for all your comments. I will try to answer everyone:

Snazzyspookyandscary, yes, we both work full-time, doing exactly the same job (we met at work) and get paid the same. I seriously doubt that he will sell the duplicate piece of kit and have no energy to make him. I have to pick my battles wisely.

Lavenderhoney - yep, perhaps "bullied" is the right word. I do keep quite a lot of the time, however. For instance, he does not really know he hangs out washing wrong or load the dishwasher wrong (some of you picked up on this one). If I have to re-do his work, I try to do it when he is not around. But I am sure it shows anyway. . . . I also hate DIY. I am not hopeless, but it's not something that I enjoy. . . . In terms of driving to his hobby - I do not mind most of the time, but DH's dependency annoys me, and there are times when I do want to be at home. In regards to driving to work - we are lucky to live close enough to get their comfortably by public transport. . . .What do I want DH to change into? I want him to stop treating domestic tasks as a source of annoyance, but start taking ownership and pride in them and feeling that they are HIS and HE can do them well and that he can learn.

BessieMcBean, pretty much any DIY throws him off. Yesterday he was asking me how to attach a string to an Ikea picture frame. I told him to read the instructions. I am not talking plumbing or joinery here. While I do 70% of the housework, he often gets on with tasks for his "work work". He does work hard. But I mind this as he gets to further his career and I don't. Thanks for the kitchen towel idea!

Hyperballad, yes, one-off TV fest is ok with me. A lot of you picked up that I was annoyed at DH letting DS watch telly when he cleaned the kitchen. I was not annoyed at this, but at that he suggested to put DS in front of telly in the afternoon, when I asked for DS to be taken for a walk. . . . The 3x rule unfortunately does not work with DH. I can ask nicely, beg, bargain, make threats and appeal to universal justice for months and see no sustainable change. But yes, I do need to chill.

MrsOscarPistorius, thanks!! I will get Wifework. And you are right that tasks need to be divided, so DH keeps doing something long term and learns. As I said before, we now arranged for him to be the kitchen king three days a week. I do nothing in the kitchen on those days. We had this before, but now we really need to stick to it. I must be disciplined on my part too. I did suggest a rota for other things, but it's a no-go area now.

Got to go now. Will be back to answer the others. Thanks!!!

Proudnscary, well, this is exactly where I do not want to be. The dishwasher did wonders for our evenings. I love this thing.

Lueji, that's the plan. I just have to be VERY disciplined myself.

ivykaty44, yes, I often feel like his mother. It's a total turnoff. I hate it.

OneMoreChap, yep! And he even hangs towels on the hooks in the bathroom wrong! Grrrrr. I have issues. So I would like to work not just on him, but on myself.

MerlotforOne, I will try not to see harder. It's just when I get not only to see but to feel and smell too - e.g. puddles of jam on floors, pee around the toilet - when I start going particularly bonkers.

LFARAJ, I am afraid I am the kind of high maintenance lady that requires relatively hygienic environment before getting her kit off.

will be back.

cestlavielife, I was not against the morning telly, just against telly instead of walk. DH does not know that he loads the dishwasher wrong. I did not let him on this one. Yet. I am hoping he thinks that I am just trying to fit more dishes in when I re-arrange it. Well, fitting more dishes in is the actual reason for re-arranging. . . . To be fair, DH does watch DS sometimes when I do DIY. But I hate having to be responsible for everything around it - realising what needs to be done, thinking how things should be done, procuring materials, troubleshooting, wondering around bloody B&Q, etc. But even this is not the main thing. I resent DH's absolute refusal to put even a minor amount of effort into learning a new skill.
.....................

Today DH completed his kitchen day rather successfully. The stove is still dirty, but everything else is in reasonable hygienic state. I did not complain about anything today.

Your DH does sound useless. I recommend a book called Wifework by Susan Maushart. It'll help you see things like there's nothing wrong with expecting your DH to do jobs around the house properly - you are not a control freak. For example, there really is no excuse for him not cooking sausages if you've shown him what to do a dozen times and he is an educated adult who can hold down a good job!

Buying another bit of kit for £200 when he had one at home and you can't really afford it?! That sounds pretty damn selfish and I don't think I'd have been understanding. Could he not just have not done his hobby that day?

"I must be more tolerant or just not care" - there is a third option: your DH could start pulling his weight.

Sorry, have just realised MrsOscarPistorius has already recommended that book.

He loads the dishwasher then you come and rearrange it ? That is nuts.

Leave the other dishes til the next load...

Pee and jam yeuch yep can understand why that irritates...

How can you hang up a towel wrong?

Otoh your dh clearly has bad traits eg whiny about rain (there is no such thing as bad weather only inappropriate clothing )
And his 200 £ hobby,,,

What was it like before ds came along? How is he with other peoples children ?

Well, I blame his mother.
She clearly let him get away with doing nothing as a child and you are reaping the rewards.

You are entitled to be angry because your husband is lazy, and you are having to work harder than your share to keep things going.
The trouble is that if you don't resolve this, you will cease to love, like or even respect him.
Because it's 'only housework' the solution can be for you to do more, and more, and shut up about it. Or divide the tasks (if he does his).
But love is an equal, and fair partnership.

Your feelings are valid. If it doesn't feel fair to you, your relationship needs to change before love is lost.

Oh Autumn! Looking at all the facts, reading your posts a couple of times, I do hereby declare that you most certainly have a useless husband!

:(

I feel sorry for him, his feet must be hurting from the egg-shells.

He must feel undermined and well pretty useless, and you can be made to feel useless.

If he was doing this to you, you would have been advised to leave him by now.

I suggest you get onto the FlyLady website, and print off her detailed cleaning lists for each room. Then he needs to follow the list, and the room will look fabulous. If it doesn't look fabulous, then he didn't follow the list and he needs to do it again. Note, HE needs to do it again.

And yes, you CAN fold laundry wrong. You can fold it in a way that it looks nice and crinkle free when you wear it, or you can fold it so that it looks like it desperately needs to see an iron before you can wear it. If he continues to do all of these things badly, then if I were you I would do your own washing, hang it on your own airer, and put it away. Let him do his own, and if it takes a week to dry, then he can run out of dry clothes (he does NOT put use your airer, that is for YOUR clothes). If it looks all wrinkled and creased when he wears it, then HE will have to look like a crumpled mess, or he has to iron it before he puts it on. Either he will lift his game, or he will start looking like a slob. If he lifts his game, then all of your washing can be done together.

I suggest you start getting really firm with the finances. Allocate household spending, and then work out your individual spending money. He forgot his kit, then buying the new bit comes out of HIS spending money, not the household money. If he has to dip into the household money because he doesn't have enough of his own money left then he gets less next month.

Price up the DIY jobs, and allocate money for them. If one of you does it ON TOP of their household duties, then that person gets to keep that money as their personal spending money.

You drive him to his hobby, if you are willing to continue, then he has to do something in return. Something that takes an equivalent amount of time out of HIS spare time that is solely for your benefit. I'm sure you can think of something (perhaps spending some time on your work so that you can progress up the career ladder as well?)

He's acting like a teenager, treat him like one. Put firm rules and boundaries in place. When he starts acting responsibly, then you can start being more flexible with things.

Much of children's tv if you choose the right programmes can be educational and teach children many things as long as you are around to talk to them when on. Get sky plus and tape the good ones.

As for the rest, that's just life. I hate everything bar cooking. Impact a gardener, a cleaner and an odd job man when a job needs doing. I see it as doing my bit for the economy. If you both work and can afford it then do it.

Lifes too short to be arguing about this sort of crap.

I could never decide whether my XH did things badly on purpose or was just a very intelligent idiot. At our wedding my very perceptive DF made a comment in his speech about "Simulated domestic incompetence" which has echoed through three decades. Rather than taking on the burden and mothering him for all those years I should have stepped back and let him deal with the consequences. The problem is it all makes you bitter and resentful and kills the love. Then you reach the point where he even breathes wrong, smells wrong and you can't stand him.
Ironically I now have a lovely man in my life who is an excellent cook and fixer upper but hoards clutter...

Yes, but Maleview and others suggesting that employing others is a solution. a question: who is to be responsible for these people? Tell them what to do? Agree and pay wages? Check on progress and decide whether the families needs are being met. Who will take the flack if things go pear-shaped?
Basically, just whose job are we saying these tasks are?