Dh has no patience with the dc

[mabelm]

We have 3 dc, 6, 3 and 2. Dh has always suffered from a low-level depression, continuous low mood and a low tolerance level for anything. Ie, he gets very angry very quickly. He is not physically violent but he shouts alot.

Our eldest dc is very exuberant, very strong-willed and it is difficult to get him to do anything he doesn't want to do. In general I have a lot more patience than dh but have found it hard to manage ds1 and I have been unacceptably shouty since dd (about to turn 2) was born. I now feel I am much more in control and so I am now able to manage the dc without shouting (much!).

However, dh just snaps really really quickly, he gets so angry with the kids all the time. I feel I'm on tenterhooks the whole time to jump in before it escalates.

An example from this morning - asking ds1 to come to breakfast - when he doesn''t come dh v quickely escalates to shouting and making wild threats re missing trips out etc.

We have never had a day where dh has not "blown up" over something throughout the day.

I have put up with it for so long and have understtood it (his father is like this but worse) and I have sympathy for the depression, but I am just getting to the point where I'm finding it hard to live with anymore.

Part of it is that when he gets angry he talks to you in a rude way eg (Didn't you hear me calling you?????) that really gets my back up and the dc mirror this way of talking. Again, this is how his family communicate - every converstation is quite confrontational, but I don't want my family to be like this..

Anyway.... sorry for long post I was just wondering if anyone else has experiences of this and if anyone has any thoughts about it.

I should say that I am trying hard to challenge this behaviour and dh is aware it is unacceptable and he is trying not to, but he is still doing it. I''m just not sure he can change...

If something looks abusive and sounds abusive, then it's abusive. It doesn't matter if the person doesn't mean it, loves his family really, is kind to kittens or treats his dear old mum well.

Well, I believe it is bearandcub. This man is using explosions of anger every day to control his family through fear (of angering him), even small children. And yet he manages not to treat other people the same way.

Abuse is about control and domination.

This is why I don't venture onto Relationships very often. I find the posts so ridiculously black and white (and so heavily tainted by posters own experience).

Hope you're OK, OP. Don't give up hope on him, despite what you read here.

If you dont try and stop your DH's behaviour now which isn't normal, as parents we all lose our temper with kids once in a blue moon but it should never be to the extent that they become terrified of us, then you run the risk of damaging your DC's.

If my 5 yr old DS is naughty then he goes to bed straight away and he is not allowed to play with his toys. My DH will talk with him why that behaviour is not acceptable. If my DH constantly lost his temper around the DC's then i'd have to question if I wanted him (DH) as part of the family

Bakingaddict = thanks for explaining how things are/were with your mum.
Yes, I think that is what the dc will get like with dh - tiptoeing arond him so they don't "set him off". I guess this is what I do to a certain extent. It is absolutely what dh and his sis do with their father and what dh's sister does with dh.
I don't want this to happen and I know dh doesn't either... I guess e needs to try harder.

Schobe -t hankd you for answering my is it normal question, it helps.

how goes he react when he sees you getting positive behavioral results from your children when you address them in your most calm and rational way?

i.e... does he accept that his way of speaking to them leads to a cycle of bad behaviour and negativity and that there is a better way?

I think the fact that you feel on tenterhooks waiting for him to snap is a sign of an abusive relationship actually.

I'm not too sure why there is minimising of this behaviour going on on this thread.

hi OP. i want to give a different viewpoint. your family sounds very similar to mine and i dont consider us dysfunctional or dh abusive. we are a very loving family but dh is far less tolerant/patient than me. he just doesn't have any other strategies to use so shouts. ds (my oldest of 3) adjusts his behaviour around dh and calls us bad cop good cop. we've talked about this and dh knows he 'blows up' quicker than me. our solution is that if i see things escalating i say 'time out' dcs go for time out then they come to talk about it with dh (if it was him theyd upset) when both have calmed down. dh knows im not undermining him and dcs know that time out is for them and us.

i think everyone has different ideas on whats acceptable and parenting. you're lucky if you agree with your dp but if not you have to work out middle ground and solutions that suit you both.

I think he needs to accept more deeply that his current behaviour is wrong

Spot on.
Let that be your barometer of whether his truly willing to change.

That realisation will have to go pretty deep, though, and he will be removing very deeply entrenched beliefs to get there.

Any justification blaming the DC for his treatment of them is the exact opposite of accepting responsibility for his own behaviour.

I don't think anyone is saying give up hope. But DO let go of the idea that you can make him change. He has to do it himself (which he is clearly trying to do) while you make it clear what you feel is and isn't tolerable for you.

Hi Pinot - thanks for your input.

I am valuing all the posts, whether they are saying dh is abusive or not. I'm trying not to put a label on it, but more to focus on whether the behaviour is ok or not and how to change. I do understand that peoples opinions are coloured by their own realtioship experiences and so I'm trying to apply everyones gthoughts to what I know about my dh

It is helping me to hear people sayingb this is not ok behaviour and not what happens in most families. That helps as I know I am doing the right thing in fighting hard to change how dh is behaving.

At the moment i feel and he feels that I am jumping on everything he says and his every reaction.....

Delurking.

Not sure about other families, but I am the one, mum, with the snappy anger gene / behaviour. Mostly due to sleep deprivation, but still.

It is my DH who pointed out some time ago that my behaviour was not normal.

I strongly recommend this book. It changed our lives for the better.

I cannot comment if there are other issues underneath his behaviour, but for me, the book really helped me change the dynamics of my parenting.

Good luck.

Hi mummy loves a scarefest.
Thanks for your post. But do you think its ok that your dh shouts alot?
I have got to the point that I don't actually think it is ok.

Hi frequentflyer - thanks so mch for posting.
Have you managed to stop the anger response??

I think I've put up with this for so long because I have felt that dh could not help the anger respnse 0- a bit like a woman with constant pmt

The day your husband goes searching for his own books, therapy, etc, mabel, is the day you'll know he's serious about change.

If you are the one buying books for him or looking into medical/psych treatment, etc, then you are the one who wants to change him, and that never works.

Change can only come from within.

What concerns me about your post OP, is that this is day in day out you are anxious and DH gets angry, and also that DH seems to think him losing it with a 6 year old is somehow equal/deserved as a response to a 6 year old's misbehaviour.

Precisely the book I was thinking of, Frequentflyer.

I asked the questions that I did upthread because I was becoming the shouty one, and reading that helped me find a better way.

In my case, it was seeing the example that others were setting that made me see that there was a more effective way of talking to my children. It broke the cycle.

It's got to come from his desire to change himself, though.

i dont think its ok but then he thinks im too soft and as our dcs dont seem damaged by either im not sure whos right. my own df? (dad) was very shouty but im fine. i think its part of life that everyone has different 'ways' and we all behave differently around different people. so long as my dc aren't afraid of dh then it doesnt worry me. i know my way isnt the only way even though it is better

Thelightpassenger.
Yes, quite.... I think that's the realisation I have come to.

Ewan and Frequentflyer, thanks for the book ref I will order it. I'm sure it will help both of us.

Hotdamn - that is a good point. He has bought himself a book which is supposed to hepl with depression and anger responses etc - called mindfulness or someything and he has started reading it. So he is making some effort.

I do get frustrated though as he bought a treadmill months ago so he could get some exercise to help with the depression bt doesn't use it.... He was on anti-ds for a while which I thought helped a bit but he came off them cos he doesn't like being on them.. which I understand but am a bit frustrated by

I am still angry at times, but better at parenting.

One day I will get the anger thing looked into.

I agree that change comes from within.

Thanks mummyloves, I would just say to you that you can't know really whether your dh's behaviour is negatively affecting your dc - they may not show that it is, but in years to come it may have affected them. The question is whether it is objectively wrong or not - you are the one who is there so I guess you know if it seems wrong or not.

My dh's behaviour seems wrong to me and After all the responses I've had here I am even more sure that dh's behaviour is not acceptable.

Thanks frequentflyer... good luck...

youre right op and if it felt wrong i would, like you, seek to stop it.

At the moment it doesn't sound like your DH can think of any other strategies than trying to keep quiet or shouting - which obviously in the long run won't work. However he didn't learn any other way of parenting from his parents so it's hard to imagine something you've never seen. He probably is completely oblivious to the fact that when other families say they've had a row or their kids are a nightmare, they don't mean every day.

So while he needs to do this for himself, he will have no idea where to start. Books on parenting are a good idea as are parenting courses - do you have a Surestart centre near you? Some Supernanny episodes addressed this really well where the dads had no idea how destructive they were.

Before saying he is abusive (which some of his behaviour to you does sound a bit like) see what he is like when put on the right track. He'll likely find that not only his relationship with the kids, but his relationship with you is a lot better. If not, well you know what the door is for.

Hi kundry, thanks for your post. I think you're right - how can dh possibly know how to parent effectivley when he was brought up theway he was.

Today he has said he thinks I'm not disciplining ds and then he has to so he looks like bad cop. From my perspective, he has been over-reacting while I've been trying to resolve issues without escalating into shouting.

It's just so exhausting......

This is so hard, I feel so bad making him feel bad about himself, but then I know my primary responsibility is to the kids....

I will look into Surestart parenting courses - thanks - maybe he wll then find it easier to see his current way is not the right approach

I had a man like this on my hands and it didn't end well. Not for me, not for the DCs. I don't know how it ended for exH. I don't really care enough to wonder.

Oh and reading parenting books was beneath him.

Your H is an abuser.

He is trying hard not to get angry. I know he is because I recognise a situation where he would have got angry and shouted and I can tell from his vioce he is tryinng not to get shouty.

That is not trying. That is changing the tone of voice so you can still tell he is angry. It is saying 'I am angry but I am giving in to your whim this time and am not going berserk, but push me hard enough and I will...'

My exH used to do that pained thing too -- giving the impression that he was being tried almost beyond his limits. It was every bit as scary as the shouting.

He also used to speak rudely and brusquely to the DCs -- "Get out of my way" was his way of saying "Excuse me". He always began instructions to the DCs at a high decibel level. If they didn't co-operate he got even louder. The result was that I couldn't get anything accomplished with them unless I was willing to shout and threaten too. They were immune to civilised tones of voice. It took a lot of undoing, believe me.

Unless he is getting professional help for his depression and CBT for his constant anger then he is not trying and he does not want to. He is getting everything he thinks he needs from the relationship and from the family as things are and until he sees some big reason to change he will not change.

These are the books you need:
'Why Does he Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men' by Lundy Bancroft.

Take a look at 'The Batterer as Parent: Addressing the Impact of Domestic Violence on Family Dynamics' by Lundy Bancroft.

Also 'When Dad Hurts Mom: Helping Your Children Heal the Wounds of Witnessing Abuse' again by Bancroft.

You should also get 'Living With the Dominator' by Pat Craven.