Need to stand up to ex. Suggest a wording for me please?

[porridgelover]

So....STBXH was a very abusive man. No physical but emotionally had me at a point of believing that he and my babies would be better off if I topped myself. Sexual manipulation, financial, cut me off from friends and family. Porn addict. He left (I believe) thinking that it would finally shut me up, that my final shred of resistance to his abuse would shrivel...so that he could march back in as master-of-all-he surveyed.
I have had no support since he left. Family hopeless. Some shred of dignity wouldnt allow me to let him come back without serious changes. So he never got back in
Since then, one of DC has been diagnosed with SN and I have concentrated on that. Access and maintenance is on an informal, agreed between us basis. Actually, that's not true....he takes what access he wants and that suits him and he give what maintenance he wants.

I have to set boundaries to him for everything (suffice to say the poo-ing ex thread here was no surprise to me).

So, I had a text from him today, to say that he wouldn't see the kids according to the schedule over the next week. No explanation, certainly not looking to see if it's ok. Just as if he was ringing a childminder.
I've had enough of this...I had wanted to do a SN related course next weekend but wont be able to now. (Bet he knew this ). I cant make him be a parent but he is so manipulative that he can twist any assertiveness to find a ''poor him'' angle.

I dont want to rile him. I dont want to go all guns blazing, it's not my style.
So, your suggestions please on how to be assertive, without being aggressive?

You can't expect an unreasonable person to become reasonable. That ,ich I have learned here.

The people running the sn course may have access to child are during the course. Ask them .

Depending on level of sn you should contact ss children with disabilities team for support and extra help.

You don't need to try and be two people just be a good enough mother .

Through solicitors and formalising is the only way.
Ad hoc doesn't work.

And if something important arrange in your weekend but arrange baby sitter

Agree, there really is no need to think that you, as you are, are not enough for your dcs. You are. Your feeling that you need to be parentx2 is symptomatic of your relationship with your x; a hangover, nothing more.

May I suggest that whenever you find yourself running about being parentx2 - or even tempted to be - you take deep breaths and remind yourself that you are good enough as you are.

"Am I foolish to cling to the hope/belief that we can be reasonable adults about this?"

From the pencil sketch you've drawn, sadly yes. Who was it said that one definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different outcome? When faced with an unreasonable, manipulative person you do not have to stoop to their level, be unreasonable or 'get down and dirty'. You do, however, have to present a strong, uncompromising front.... with back-up from professionals when necessary. What you see as being flexible and reasonable in an effort to make life more harmonious & less confrontational, the unreasonable person simply sees as a contemptible weakness to be despised and exploited.

I think all us single parents worry at some level if we're doing enough to compensate for the absent party. The DCs, on the other hand, are just happy that we are there .... warts and all. :)

Well sais cognito
Anyone watch that prog recently on BBC about women in business/workplace? V interesting bit about how the wording for job advertisements puts women off. Things we see as strong masculine words. It highlighted how a woman will rarely be domineering but try to negotiate, and men see this as weakness.
Give yourself support of the law, it won't hurt him to see you are being serious.

"I plan to attend a SN-related course that weekend in order to be better able to care for our child. Therefore it will not be possible to rearrange the existing schedule."

Any good?

Hi porridge, I've got one of those exes too. We should form a secret society with our own coded handshake. Although frankly, the haunted look in our eyes is probably enough for us to identify each other!

I don't think there is any magic formula that will make him do what you want next weekend. If he's anything like my ex, a hint that the weekend is really important to you will make him dig his heels in. I remember my ex doing just this when I wanted to attend a child first aid course when DD was a new baby. It's as he couldn't bear me knowing something he didn't. Would it be worth calling his bluff and texting something like "Your loss!" to see if he comes back demanding his right to see them?

Alternatively, could you tell him that you'll be attending this course, and he'll have to pay for babysitting? You'll have to make the arrangements, but bill him, and see whether or not he pays up. Could he be shamed by eg. cc'ing his parents into the email?

Rather than agonize too much about how to make a pig-headed man do something he doesn't want to do, ultimately you're better off putting your energies into finding a solution. Could you do a babysitting swap with any of your dc's schoolfriends?

To think positively about this, and I sense from your posts that you want to find the positives, then why not just see his involvement in their lives when he chooses as a bonus? You sound like a bloody good parent, one who is really giving her all to their upbringing and trying to stop his twuntishness from spilling into their lives.
Have a plan B for when he doesn't show, when you want to do something for yourself. Are there any single parents groups near you?
If his flakiness upsets the DCs then your role is to be the stable centre around which their lives revolve.
As someone said upthread, they will come to see his limitations or he will come to see his limitations being an arse of a parent but you can't do much about either. Don't do his PR, be neutral, answer questions but go no contact and let him work out how to do his parenting.

Trouble is struwelpeter is that 'his involvement in their lives when he chooses' is not a positive thought in the slightest. When someone is so unreliable there's no point having a plan B for when he doesn't show either... because plan B would quickly become Plan A and the OP would end up second guessing every move based on this man's whims. The OP split up from this emotional bully precisely so that she didn't have to live like that any more.

Speaking as a single parent, doing something for myself is Plan, A, B & C. I take priority. Someone wanting to dip in and out of my family's life when it suits them has to wait until it's convenient for me. That's the only way to make this positive.

Thank you all. I really appreciate all the advice.

I 'know' a lot of what you advise re standing up to him, I know that I cant be the second parent for them, I know that he uses what I consider to be my strengths against me. But faced with the reality of small eyes wanting to see 'Dad' I find it very difficult to be rigid.

Your posts have all stiffened my backbone. So I sent a 2 sentence email.
First sentence....'No'. .

We'll see what comes back. I expect a litany of reasons why he simply cannot make those days, some slurs about my inflexibility, something about how all our problems come down to communication and several lines about how I dont live in the real world (where the MEN solve all the Business Problems).

The first thing to say is this: you sound like AN AMAZING MUM! Your kids are lucky to have someone in their corner as strong and brave and loving as you are.

Second thing: you can only be responsible for you. You can't be responsible for other people's bad behaviour. It is NOT your fault that this man is selfish and unreasonable. It is NOT your fault that he is unreliable. It is NOT your job to force him to behave around your kids (in fact, I'd say that's an impossible task). If he's a bad father, that's HIS fault, not yours!

Third thing: get official on his ass. Use the systems around you to get what you need. He is not reasonable, and never will be. All that will happen if you try to do things informally is that he will attack you and wear you down, and you will end up resenting his presence in your life and feeling bitter. This is no good for you or the kids. If you go official, you will have institutions and systems on your side. Instead of having him try to persuade you that you're illogical and irrational, you'll just be able to point to official letters and say 'This is how it is'. Believe me, it will be a huge relief for you.

Fourthly, remember to look after yourself too. Try to develop a social routine where you go out and meet new people at classes twice a week. It's important that you're not isolated with this, and sometimes you need other people to get perspective. Since your family are worse than useless, try to build new friendships with those who are more supportive.

or what about replying along the lines of "No matter! It's better for me anyway because me and the kids can now do (insert your choice of fun thing with kids) which we've been meaning to do for ages. Porridgelover".
His wish for you not to have any sort of life outside him may make him suddenly realise that he is free that week after all.

you've had some good advice and you sound a great mum but i take issue with some posters notions that Dad is an added bonus and that the children will not lose anything from not having a relationship with their father. As a single mother out the other side now- DC are in their 20s- i was single mum from time they started school, i find it very sad that my DC do not have a close relationship with their father- basically because he put them low down his list of priorities, he wasn't useless, he just did the bare minimum (saturday Dad type deal, no mid week phone calls either). They feel their father doesn't care that much (not true he loves them very much) and that he isn't that interested in them (rather true). It is a bigger loss to him than it is to them but it is a loss for them , and no matter how brilliant a single mum you or anyone else is you can't take away that fact. Your parents should in an ideal world be the people there most for you. I feel sad in having had an almost non-existent relationship with my father growing up (due to him always working or playing golf). My father's loss is greater than mine as he lost out on an enormous amount of love and care he could have been receiving from his children when they were young and as adults. I got love and attention from my mum but lost a proper relationship with dad.

So basically don't feel bad about trying to make it work BUT you can't change his behaviour, neither should you be running around after him or acting as his PR agent! My advice- good boundaries, know how long you will wait for him to turn up, know when to say no etc . Get in touch with CSA and keep records of when he does and doesn't turn up. If he starts messing you around make a new schedule, if he doesn't like it then its court or mediation.

Finally be there for them. Help them understand that it isn't their fault that their father cannot be there for them in the way he should. They will figure things out for themselves when older.

of course their loss can be mitigated substantially by you being a good single mum and by having a support network- extended family and friends and possibly in the future a new father figure in the shape of a step dad. These things all help massively .

littlebluecorsa I totally agree with what you say about my children needing a father. Unfortunately the man I picked to be my partner and with whom I chose to have children is someone who was not able to do the growing up we all have to do, to transition from childless fun-time couple to a family.

He has no concept of how to be an adult with them. If he did not have the blood relationship with them that he has, I would never allow my children out with someone at his level of child-supervising incompetence.
I believe that he loves them but that he cannot handle their (normal childhood) needs.

I believe that as a single mum I do a very good job but I will never be able to fill the gap for them. I dont have the extended family network (as above) and I lost many friends during the course of my marriage (he didnt like me being out without him and criticised most of my friends).
I cannot see myself ever meeting someone who could take on what I have so dont see a step-dad in their future either.

Anyway, no reply to my email from earlier....which probably means he is ignoring it (the excuse will be that he has been too busy ...keeping the Earth turning or somesuch).

Easy to say I know, but you seem to be taking responsibility for his behaviour... Which you don't have to do! If he won't make a proper arrangement to see his children, you know that's his fault, not yours! It's hard I know but try to imagine he was someone else, then think, would I be accepting this behaviour from them? If the answer is no, then you know you're letting him manipulate / bully you into treating him as a special, privaledged person and he doesn't deserve that.

Calm short sentences & the mumsnet mantra 'no' is a complete sentence. Something like 'no that won't work unfortuneately' repeated in a pleasant calm voice ad nauseum... ?

ummm.....this is going away from my original post but it's a good point. I don't think I take responsibility for his behaviour. But I do know that I feel an enormous responsibility for my children. Like I know that if I am assertive with him, the impact is actually more on them IYKWIM?
So if I refuse to go along with this change in access, thats fine, it's what suits me. But ultimately, they are the ones who will see him less.

And I get that it's his choice to be a twat about it, but it's not something that they get a choice in. He prefers not to be constructive; but perceives my asserting myself as a form of attack.
So off he goes with a 'poor me, you are denying me access to my DC'. When actually, what I am saying is that as he chose to leave, he can no longer rock up here to see them whenever it suits him (dropping in at bedtime and leaving them heaving with sobs for me to settle).

I am spinning myself around on this one.....I think it's back to my trying to be reasonable but having it used against me.

I did send an email with that famous complete sentence!

well my ex doesn't sound quite as bad as yours- he did look after them properly when they were in his care and did do child friendly activities and was consistent in when he saw them, he just did nothing else in between and so has a rather distant relationship with them.

Re what i said about mitigating factors- i don't have a close extended family, i have few friends (bit of a loner by nature) and i never settled down with another man- i did date but kept them away from my family set up (it was not a sacrifice) . My kids have turned out very well. I did ensure they had after school play dates so they got contact with other families. They did see their grandparents regularly- on both sides (one side only maybe twice a year due to distance but they were such wonderful grandparents when they were together), all of whom were very open in their love. I just find it slightly sad that they don't have that closeness with their father, and that to some extent it affects them now as adults (see earlier post).
There are men who are happy to take on women with children and you may well meet one. You may also decide to concentrate on other things and be satisfied with dating and keeping relationships more casual. I had 3 long relationships after i split with their father- one lasted years but i never wanted to commit enough to move in with anyone again.

re your last post, its about boundaries, him turning up close to bedtime when you know it will end in them getting upset is not on , so be strong and try not to feel guilty.

Porridge I do understand when you say it affects them. The last time my DD saw her dad was before I forced the CSA issue after months of having no money and him deciding when he was free, turning up 4hrs late etc. The way I saw it was that if I kept letting him do this, not only was he wearing me down and in control, but this is what my daughter would see men do. I knew I had to put my foot down for both of us. Kids need structure and so do we as adults. I hated the idea of DD growing up seeing her dad do this and then thinking it was the right way for women to be treated. It may be easier short term, but long term you should aim for a respectful relationship all around.

• May be easier short term to carry on as you have been, is what I menat, as your last post seemed to hint you were giving up on making any change? FWIW My ex chose not to see his DD after I instigated CSA - he is a cold and idiotic man and thought that if he didn't see her he wouldn't have to pay. He hasn't asked after DD since she was 6 months old and is so hungry for his old power trip all of his messages are about us, which can still be v. wearing, but at least it is at arms length and I don't have to see him. Heaven knows what I would do if he suddenly wanted contact! So it may be easier for me to say in that respect. It does sound as if your ex will actually want to see them and make the effort though. Maybe he needs the structure as well to focus him on his kids rather than annoying you?

I've had no reply/acknowedgment to my email (not surprised). I fully expect him to just not show up for access on the days he wanted to change.
He will spout about flexibility and compromise and failures to communicate....but should the reverse happen, he just does not stump up when I need him to take the kids. It becomes a handy stick with which to beat me.
An utterly powerless man who has to have power over others (me) just to make it through the day.

If he doesnt turn up, email him again.

"I am disappointed that you decided to not turn up for your appointed access visit at X time on X date. As you know, I was going to use that time to attend a class that will train me how to deal with our childs special needs. I expect you at X time on X date for your next visit as arranged."

Then, see a solicitor about getting mediation to get proper access and maintenance sorted out. If you have a paper trail (even just your side) it will help if it goes to court. Him ignoring your contact, him paying what he wants and when he wants, him simply not turning up, will all go against him if he takes you to court (which he will, he is assuming that everyone in the world will agree with him).

Email him EVERY SINGLE TIME he pulls shit like this. Email a response to his texts, quoting his text in the email, and print off a copy, print off his texts too if you can.

See a solicitor asap, he is taking the piss.

So wise MN. As expected (see my last post) he has not turned up. No discussion, no acknowledgement.
Kids disappointed and acting up as a result...so we had pizza and movie-night.
So they wont see him now til ...??????when.

I dont really want to go the route of a) telling him how he has inconvenienced me. It makes no difference to him. If anything, he gets a boost from putting me out or making things worse for me; as I must be punished for standing up to him when he left ...or b) refusing to resume the access schedule when he returns. While that would show him the consequence, it would unfairly punish the children also.

So any thoughts....
Yes I will talk to the solicitor about this; but I expect they will do the usual of asking me have I sorted out my finances so that we can open negotiations based on that. Blah blah blah . Meanwhile he continues to get his own way while I am run ragged, dealing with non-sleeping, upset children, IEP's, SaLT, schools, trying to work, keep house etc etc. Not sure when I am expected to sit down and work out bills and costs....maybe I should give up sleep altogether, buy a coffin, move into it and have done with it.

Afraid the upset, unfairness and anger got away from me there at the end

Its ok to get pissed off and carried away, we all do that.

If you are not happy with your solicitor then change to another one. Book a free half hour and outline your main issues until you find one that you feel understands what you need from them.

And I would stop telling the kids that daddy is seeing them on this day. If they ask, say that you dont know. I had to do this in the end and yes, it is horrible, but it is easier on you and them than them being all excited and him not turning up. I said that I didnt know when they would see him and I didnt know why they hadnt seen him but we would do something nice.

My ex was like this, almost to the letter. He then married his OW and had 3 kids with her which meant that the CSA said that he couldnt afford to pay anything for the DC (this was under the old rules). So I cancelled the claim, waited 13 weeks and re-claimed so it would be under the new rules. Last I heard, he was fucking FUMING.

Ah well........ :o

Well, he's a right cock, isn't he?

You're right, there's no point in telling him about your inconvenience, as he very probably is doing it for that reason alone, as you suspect. He's flexing his little biceps and shouting "look mummy! Look how strong I am" which is completely pathetic, but power games are like that.

The first thing I would do is see a family solicitor for a free half hour and ask specifically what the advice is re his unreliability vis a vis contact. The sad truth is, though, that no one can force him to see his children or to stick to times and dates which are laid out; unless he actually wants to do it, he won't.

The advantage to you in getting it formalized is that outside of the contact dates you will be under no obligation to take him into account unless you want to; which means that you can plan your weeks without having to worry about changing things around if he were to suddenly demand ask to see dcs on Tuesday evening or something.

I would strongly advise that you do not acquiesce to requests from him to see the children outside agreed contact times (once you have them) unless or until he has been seeing them regularly on his correct days and times for at least 6 months. Once he's got his routine with the children sorted and he's used to it, you could be more flexible, if it suits you, but not before (and only if he asks nicely).

I'm afraid that you will almost certainly have to be rigid. He will spend the rest of his life, and yours, trying to prove to himself that he still has power over you. He knows you want the dcs to have a relationship with him so that is now his bargaining chip.

Bear in mind that he is an abusive git, and he will eventually start trying to control the children. Having a relationship with their father is not actually something you can control, and the children will be perfectly fine without him in their lives. If he chooses not to bother seeing them because he doesn't want to obey the 'rules' and because he wants to hurt you, then that is his choice and your children will probably benefit from,not having him in their lives anyway. Whatever he does is his choice, and you don't have control over it. That is one illusion you have to let go of.o