H and I had heated and possibly over honest confrontation in counselling, now he is not speaking to me at all

[feelokaboutit]

We have had two bad episodes like this before when he blanked me for a period of weeks following a bad argument. (Once up to 6 weeks, the other time a little less I think). When I bring this up in counselling he says yes but what was the argument about - as if what I did or said (which I don't agree with as on both occasions I was very angry with him about the way he behaved so it's kind of a swings and roundabouts situation) warranted him not speaking to me for six weeks .

We have been in counselling for a few months now but we have probably been for a total of 6 sessions together so far as often we can't go for various reasons. What has happened is that I have finally been able to say what I find so difficult, and he has basically reiterated again and again that the state of the house is the main issue for him. In fact I think he went to counselling in the hope that the house would become minimalistic and since that hasn't happened he has said that there is no point to going.

However, though I have finally been able to externalise much of what I find difficult, it doesn't actually feel like anything has changed between us.
On Monday I was very honest about how I feel. I have mentioned the possibility of separating several times now but neither the counsellor nor h take it up. Things also got pretty heated and in the same way that h finds so many things so difficult about me (I am apparently childish, messy, a victim, etc... etc...) I have also said what I find difficult (I find h bad tempered, cynical, negative, he bears grudges etc....). At the point at which he was saying that I am such a VICTIM I got upset/angry and said that to stop behaving like a victim would mean telling him to Fxxx OFF, at which he said that I do, every day (not in so many ways but I suppose we are both often distant from each other, in my case because I find him overbearing, controlling, critical and yes bad tempered).

Anyway, sorry to go on, my question is... given that it did get very heated and "over" honest in counselling, do I now have to accept that h is not talking to me at all (I ask him questions face to face and he doesn't answer at all, I can sometimes get an answer out of him if on the phone - these are all logistics questions nothing more) - IS IT IN FACT MY FAULT?????

Yes garlicbutty, have been thinking of doing just that but possible even putting it into storage for a short while if I can find something which isn't extortionate.

Cross-posted with your last.

No wonder you feel somehow helpless! He's infantilised you quite thoroughly. What kind of volunteering do you do at school? Have you ever been into a temp agency to discuss which of your skills are marketable?

Then at least the decks would be cleared without me having to go through months of painful sorting while feeling anxious anyway.

Teaching assistant kind of stuff. In fact there is an agency which my kids' school does use but for various reasons haven't put myself on their books. I think I would be more likely to do teaching assistant work through them at the beginning. I suppose that at 43 I feel I don't want to be judged to be "too old"....

It's really good to see that your individual counselling has given you back some of your strength :) Congrats on deciding to stop the "joint" counselling!

Dependent on where you live, it can be cheaper to rent a garage than a storage facility. Storage rentals are going down all the time, though.

I have no idea whether ageism kicks in at 43 for teaching assistants ... How about asking the agency?!

Have you thought about studying for teaching qualifications?

Thank you for your support.

I suppose part of me feels guilty that in fact I might be so desperate for the independence that I have never had (not anyone's fault but mine this) that I am willing to sacrifice family life in order to get it.

Well, I have definitely seen TAs who are older than me working at the school. I don't think it's ageism exactly but more that they might feel more comfortable employing people of their own generation (generally in their 20s) for jobs which they might do for 2, 3 or 4 years before leaving to do something else or indeed training to be teachers. I can seen from the way that some people approach me that I am no longer a "girl" (obviously ) and so they would assume that I am all sorted, in fact, what they don't realise, is that I need to start at the so called "bottom" somewhere.
I am scared of the whole getting into teaching thing for different reasons, but I have thought about it. I suppose becoming a TA might be a slow route into teaching. I definitely am very happy being in school.

Not too old. As long as you are kind, patient, personable and like children, you will be the sort of person they look for. I would recommend an NVQ 2 teching assistant qualification as a minimum.

Personally, I would not do anything about the clutter whilst he is stonewalling, simply because it's a bit like 'giving in' to his behaviour. It will only encourage him.

Instead, I would pointedly sit in front of him reading 'Divorce for dummies' or 'Living with an abusive man' or some other such material which will give him a message and prompt him to break his stonewalling.

But ultimately, it doesn't sound as if this relationship is going to work out well for you.

No, listen to what everyone else has said. Refer to what you know about child development and family life: this model of withdrawal as control, and of blaming others for problems caused by one's own withholding, is very damaging to your children's future and to your own development (which has, to an extent, been arrested by H's rigid management).

One valuable lesson you can teach your children is that grown-ups are able to assert their independence and take charge of their own lives. I bet they'll really enjoy life without a silent storm hovering round every corner! You wouldn't be sacrificing family life so much as improving it ...

I have got a qualification which is apparently (according to the OU which is where I did it) equivalent to an NVQ4 - the course lasted 9 months and was called "Supporting Learning in Primary Schools" - I had to volunteer in school and write some of my essays in relation to the children I was volunteering with. I did have an interview for a TA position at my kids' school last term but was told that, though I knew my stuff, I didn't have enough experience. Which is I suppose where the getting a job through the agency comes in. Thanks for your reassurance that I am not too old!

Well, to his credit, he doesn't ignore the kids and they generally love him and get on with him though he can lose his temper unreasonably sometimes. I totally agree, though, that the model of a relationship we are providing them is pretty dire . Definitely agree that h has a rigid side to him!

I'm not even sure how the ignoring works though. Do you still cook for him and stuff? Does he never feel he needs to speak to you about anything? If you hid his car keys, would he ask you if you'd seen them, for example?

It all sounds extremely tiring and childish.

:) It's all looking positive on the teaching front :)

I thought you might like to know about my sister who is a librarian. Her house is brim-full of paper; it's everywhere. She says she'd like to live in a library! What she means is that her ideal house would be ranged with shelves and cubbyholes. Paper is not clutter to her: it's thoughts and ideas. Of course she won't throw them away! She's right to keep them ... and is, very gradually, creating an utterly unique library of her own :)

I'm quite envious, actually. I'm a chucker-outer but I love the sense of having all one's memories around in tangible form.

If my DH was ignoring me l would not be doing any of his washing or cooking.
Until he treats you with common courtesy and respect he cannot expect to be considered or looked after at home.
This in no way fro you and your DC's to live. As hard as you may try there is no way that they annot be affected by the atmosphere around them.

Tell him to grow up or ship out, you don't need another child in the family

You seem to have got the message that you are a bad girl, and you feel guilty for not being able, quite, to pull off being a good girl; to the point that you want to break away to be happy because you can't attain the standards that are presented to you. Have you thought that maybe the standards presented to you are absurd? You'd think the men in your life were training a horse. It is absurd that at 43 your father is pronouncing that you 'have potential'. 13, maybe, but not 43.

Perhaps you underestimate the appalling model your marriage is presenting to your children - it is not 'pretty bad' but truly dire: your children will go on to replicate what you are modelling (as you have done, if you think about it..); the girls, most likely, desperately unhappy with controlling men; the boys, in all probability, training their women to behave. It is no life.

I'm afraid I don't 'give him his due' for talking to the children. He is modelling loud and clear that their mother is an idiot who needs to behave. They will be taking that on at a deep level.

Feel I am in your position at 50...

I also need to warn you that once your children start asserting themselves, they too will be treated this way. My children are teenagers, so are starting to have some adult opinions? They go down as well as mine do.

So do their more adult needs. I paid for my DD's first car, out of my benefits. Not ££££££ him, who had just bought HIMSELF a snazzy set of wheels.

I would agree to sectioning, submit to ECT if it meant I stopped mistreating my children and became a better parent. I would. They didn't ask for life, I brought them into this world and I have a duty of care towards their soul 'formation' that is flipping sacred.
I will never get how people cling onto their defenses before anything else.

my xh has very unrealsitic expectations of everyone - but especially me. i think he wanted to have married his mother, or a Stepford wife! Nothing I did was ever 'quite right'. he wasn't massively controlling, but it was the little things that wore me down, and i ended up feeling very uncertain about my own abilities.
we split, and share the dcs. it was such a relief - i have regained my confidence! and i see very clearly now how wrong our reltationship was.
feel, i think you may feel the same, if you made the move and split.

Abit - please tell me you're not still with him.... . I find your reference to sectioning/ECT very upsetting..

With my teenage kids, it went two ways: he started on them - particularly my daughter (woman, you see; needs to know her place). He also got them to come around to his way of thinking: that mother was an idiot who needed training. Kids don't necessarily go with wisdom when the pressure is on. He was the powerful one, they went with him (for the timebeing......)

op,try reading the book Why Women Talk and Men Walk.
It may not solve all your problems,but it should help shed some light on why your husband is acting in this way.

Do you think he is right when he says he doesnt know what to say when you have had arguments.
My DH is rather like that,especially when we first got married.
I realised after a few years that I was always the one to try and fix a row.It took me a few more years to realise that was because he had no idea how to fix them. He was willing to fix it, but just didnt know how.

million, this is an entirely different ball game to the one you describe I think

Do you think so?
I am not sure.

Her DH has not left her,or as far as I can make out,has not asked for a seperation.
I dont actually think he wants one.
I think they have lost their way along the marriage.

op,what were things like when you first got married. Was it hearts and flowers? Did you both kiss and cuddle?

Sorry Springy, I was being silly and dramatic and shouldn't have used that imagery. Sorry

Million does have a point, in that when people do not feel safe, their defenses absolutely rise and conflict is inevitable.

Out of the heart the mouth speaks, Abit. I don't think you were being 'silly' - it indicates how far out you are in your head iyswim?

No, this man is controlling you OP. Nothing to do with general dysfunctions that go on in a marriage - your husband specifically aims to control you and is not 'distressed' about it but entirely convinced you (and women) need controlling.