Please help me devise coping strategies to deal with toxic mother

[Ginshizz]

Hello, here is a brief bit of background to my relationship with my mother:

• I grew up pretty much just with my mother. My father was away a lot with work as he was in the forces; my brothers are much older than me and were at boarding school; as we moved around a lot, I had no real long term friends.

• Looking back now, I can see that my mother was full of self pity and depression. She constantly looked on the bleakest possible side of everything, saw the worst in everyone and everything, and was resentful of anything that went well for me, finding something negative to say about anything good that I did or any good luck I had. If she could not find anything suitably dark to say, she would rely on her old favourite "oh well, the IRA will probably blow us up anyway."

• unsurprisingly, I became fearful of everything and everyone and believed that no matter how well I did in anything, it wasn't good enough. I became very depressed at an eary age (diagnosed at 9 by the forces Dr who said in my notes, it was due to my parents).

• At fifteen, I was a straight A student who kept being told by my mother that I was stupid and my school was rubbish which is why they thought I was good and that I would never get into university.

• On being accepted into Cambridge, I realised she was talking shit. I had a blinding moment of realisation when I saw she has just been transferring all her shit onto me and, while my friends had all been supported and buoyed up by their parents, I had been let down terribly by mine.

• I then had a great time enjoying life, feeling positive about the future for the first time ever, and generally stayed the hell away from the toxic, depressive old witch.

• things have become more complicated since having DD who is now 18 weeks old. Having a DD of my own makes me even more livid at how I was treated - I would do anything, anything , for my little girl and want the very best for her. I can not understand the resentful, jealous, undermining awfulness I was subjected to. I am beyond furious that this woman refers to herself as my mother.

• However, she is still married to my father and I want him to see DD. The upshot has been an uneasy truce whereby they have seen DD twice together and DF has seen her twice on his own. When my so called mother came up to see DD last time, she was vile. She said things like "someone has to keep an eye on that baby" ie I am not looking after her properly; she said to DD when she started crying "mummy doesn't love you and daddy doesn't love you" at which point I flipped and asked her to leave; she even had a go at me because she thought the cat looked sad and neglected (our cat is a very content, well fed puss who is effectively queen of the house and isn't so much as slightly downcast ever). These are just a few examples of the shit to which we were subjected.

• anyway, my parents are coming up next week and spending the night. I don't know why I agreed to this. I think it's because I want my dad to see DD. I am shaking with anxiety already that the bitter old witch is going to be, well, herself.

What should I do? Cancel? Prepare some put downs in advance? What can I do to minimise her awfulness?

Erggggggh. I would love to hear from anyone else who had experienced anything similar! And any advice on how I can keep the toxic awfulness away from my lovely DD would be gratefully received.

I suspect I am just going to have to cancel ... Such a shame for DD to miss out on time with my dad though.

Thank you for reading my rant...

Luckily my mother is not as bad as yours, I had some low-level bitchiness growing up, but I coped with it. Then suddenly a few years ago she turned into the Mother from Hell (in retrospect I think she was miserable in her own life and was taking it out on others)

Having been trained since birth that Mother is Always Right, I put up with it for a few months, but eventually snapped. Told her on the phone that I would not talk to her until she could be civil. And then (without waiting for any answer, that's important because she would have been calling me rude and hurtful etc) put the phone down.

And it bloody well worked! She didn't turn into an angel, but she did learn not to Go Too Far. I was lucky, my mother had not gone too bad, and I suspect you will have a harder time of it, and it will take longer. But eventually she will learn that she has to be polite or you show her the door.

Don't know why I'm writing this, they've been and gone haven't they? I hope it went okay. It may take a while, but staying strong will get easier for you with practice.

Aliasjoey, no they are coming tomorrow so your post is v well timed! That's a very encouraging point although I do suspect you are right that it might take longer with my mother because it is so ingrained with her. The sad thing is I have given up on salvaging a relationship with her myself and I am more thinking about DD seeing my father. I don't want her to turn into a perfect mother, just to leave the bitching and sniping at the door! You have definitely made me more determined though

Sades, I love your suggestion - I know this sounds self indulgent but I do want to make the point that I am not going to pass the misery on like she has. Also, pointing out that I am a better person and mother than she is wouldn't be the worst thing in the world!

It's not indulgent to plan on bringing up your children the best way you can.

However its unlikely that she will listen to any arguments or points you put across - you may find the only thing that works is action. Rudeness on the phone - cut her off. Being nasty to you I would say something like "If you say anything else rude to me or DH we will ask you to leave." (Note I said 'we' it may have more impact if she knows you are in agreement!)

If she replies (I'm guessing from my own mother) something like "Oh for heaven's sake! I was just trying to help!" etc etc.

you reiterate "You were being rude. If you do it again, you can leave."

You may then have to leave the room for a few moments because almost anything she says in the immediate reply will be rude! But give everyone 5 minutes to calm down, and see if she can then be civil....

Good advice, thank you. Feels a bit like the Jo Frost warning and time out! I suppose in a way that's what she needs to see I'm serious ...

Four hours until ETA ... Arrrrrrrrrgh!!!!

How really funny that you said that, because I've been thinking the best way to handle her is to treat her like a toddler!! I even thought of timeout etc... I assumed she was emotionally-stuck at the age of about 3.

1. To start with, I'd only have one rule - no criticism of your parenting. When she matures, you can introduce more rules eg. no criticism of your choice of career/husband/car/toilet paper.

1. Make the consequences clear: if you are rude, you will be asked to leave. And follow-through!

1. Allow her some responsbilities - they love being given little jobs to do! And if she enjoys being allowed to hold/change/feed the baby, she will fall in line to continue this.

1. Time-outs. Okay, its difficult to make your mother sit on the naughty step. But basically a time-out gives you both space from each other. So you could say "I'm taking the baby out for a walk because you are being so rude and I need some space." (Reply: what? in this weather?! what a terrible mother you are!) "When I get back I expect you to have changed your attitude and be civil."

1. Warnings. It might be too hard to make your mother actually leave the house. But you could do something less drastic. I'm thinking something like "Mother, you're obviously tired from your journey. Why don't you have a lie-down?" If she continues to be rude, say "You'd better go and have a nap, I'll take you suitcase up" and then walk out. Okay now I'm thinking subterfuge. If she still won't go, get her upstairs on some pretext (come and look at the baby's room!) then show her where she's sleeping, then say "I'll leave you to have a lie-down till you feel better" and walk out! God, it would take some courage to do that...! But possibly less traumatic than having to actually throw her out of the house.

Gosh there's a lot to remember, no wonder toddler-taming books are big business. Nothing written on how to actually deal with difficult mothers (I mean hands-on advice, not theoretical narcissist stuff)

Good luck!

Oh I am laughing sooooo hard at the toddler / mother taming rules.

They are about to arrive ... I will post updates when I can.

Thank you all for your support!

Xxx

Good luck Ginshizz! It's your home, your family, your baby so she needs to follow your rules. Be strong (easier than it looks I know!)

Or even harder than it looks

Good luck, I love the toddler training idea too.

'That behaviour is not acceptable....'

I have previously found the following helpful with regards to my NPD relations because they are really childlike. However, toddlers and children grow up.

"If you had a narcissist for a parent, you lived in a world governed by whim enforced without mercy.

Narcissists have normal, even superior, intellectual development while remaining emotionally and morally immature. Dealing with them can give you the sense of trying to have a reasonable discussion with a very clever six-year-old -- this is an age when normal children are grandiose and exhibitionistic, when they are very resistant to taking the blame for their own misbehaviour, when they understand what the rules are (e.g., that lying, cheating, and stealing are prohibited) but are still trying to wriggle out of accepting those rules for themselves. This is the year, by the way, when children were traditionally thought to reach the age of reason and when first communions (and first confessions) were made.

Having a narcissist for a mother is a lot like living under the supervision of a six-year-old. Narcissists are always pretending, and with a narcissistic mother it's a lot like, "Let's play house. I'll pretend to be the mother and you pretend to be the baby," though, as the baby, you'll be expected to act like a doll (keep smiling, no matter what) and you'll be treated like a doll as an inanimate object, as a toy to be manipulated, dressed and undressed, walked around and have words put in your mouth; something that can be broken but not hurt, something that will be dropped and forgotten when when something more interesting comes along. With narcissists, there's also usually a fair element of "playing doctor," as well of childish sexual curiosity that may find expression in "seductive" behavior towards the child, such as inappropriate touching of the genitals, or it can also come out as "hypochondriacal" worries about the child's health and/or being most interested and attentive when the child is ill (thus teaching the child that the way to get Mother's kind attention is to get sick). Having a sick child can also be a way for the narcissistic mother to get the sympathetic attention of authority figures, such as doctors and teachers".

I can so empathise with you. It just a horrible, horrible situation all round.
My tactic (which it took me til 40 to work out ) is to say: "well, Mum, it may not be good enough for you but I'm doing the best I can which is usually more than adequate for anyone else". And keep saying it, to every little snipey comment and huff. Just don't let anything pass without comment - be non-confrontational but constant.

I really flipped when she started with her poison on DS. He had decorated a dinosaur cake we'd made together - he was so excited to show her and her words were 'you missed a bit of icing'. I ripped her a new one that day.
I don't let her say or do anything to him - funny how I thought it was normal and put up with it until I am the Mama bear fighting for my cub!

Its taken a long time for me to realise that, unfortunately, my Mum does not care for me in a normal way. That it has no bearing on who or what I am and no bearing on how good a Mum I am.

I think I am a far better Mum for it actually. It never fails to amaze me when I think of the things done and said. There is a obvious reason I live 12,000 miles from 'home' - got to 16 and ran!

Luckily my MIL is a wonderful, wonderful 'mum' to me and understands my quirks and loves me for them!

I really wish you good luck and that you didn't have to deal with this shit!

Good luck with the visit, for what it's worth I think you are incredibly brave.

I reached the point of 'nothing to lose' with regard to my mother after the birth of my first child too. Standing up to/ignoring her led to a few years of no contact (which to be honest was bliss) and some family friction with others who have no idea what she is like which was difficult. I have never felt as strong as you seem to be though and still struggle to see her behaviour for what it is at times.

I still have wobbly times about our relationship - we are in contact again but I keep her at arms length as much as possible but every now and again she forgets herself and her behaviour slips - this is when I back off again for a while.

I have two children now who love their nanny. She is their only grandparent so she is the only opportunity they have for having this type of relationship and I think so far they have built some very happy memories of her....but, and it's a big but I never leave her with them unsupervised as I will never trust her with them. I am always watching her with them and am fully prepared to resume no contact if even for one second she starts on them.

We've never directly spoken about it all as I'm too much of a coward to challenge her directly but I think she has got the message and I think (hope) she now fears losing a lot more than just me, so this keeps her in check.

I'm now expecting my third child and she is behaving wonderfully for all the world to see, everyone (who doesn't know her) is saying how lucky I am having her nearby this time round and isn't it great that we've sorted out our issues etc - I'm biting my tongue a lot as you can imagine!

Sorry I've gone on a bit, just wanted to wish you well and say as others have done you're not alone in having this kind of relationship with your mother.

Oh dear, it's all so tiring isn't it? I've just endured a week of my mother (we live in different countries). She's nothing like as toxic as your mother sounds op, but bad enough. I had it under control for a while using many of the tactics suggested here, particularly calling her on every nasty, spiteful, snarky remark. But lordy, it's wearing. Anyway this time she caught me unawares for various reasons (including a bereavement in dh's family) and I just wasn't up to being constantly vigilant. So now I'm seething and have been since she left last week.

Sorry I'm not helping am I, except perhaps to remind you and myself that it's never over. sigh.

I've just read through this thread. Good luck for the visit. My mother is very similar and she is kept at a distance now, for sanity's sake! Having just 'enjoyed' a visit from her today, I can say that an overnight stay would have me tearing my hair out.

Hello,

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts and experiences although I am so sorry that so many of us have to deal with this shit from the people who are meant to make us confident, happy people ready to embrace the world with optimism.

My parents have now left and the tactics seemed to work. As soon as AM (awful mother) arrived, her first comment was "oh that soup isn't home made is it? It's from a shop isn't it?" and I was straight in there with "right, lets be clear about this, DH and I had serious doubts about inviting you to stay because you are constantly critical, negative and spiteful. This is your chance to prove to us that you can be civil around us and your granddaughter. If you blow this, then you won't be invited again. Yes, the soup is from a shop - if it offends you, go hungry, your choice."

DF looked shell shocked, AM snorted and harrumphed a bit and mumbled something about "I was only making an observation." She ate the soup.

She then behaved ok until DD started crying at which point AM chipped in with "who's a poor neglected baby, nobody loves you." I remained calm and said " did you mean for that to sound so heinous? If you can't be civil, for whatever reason, may I suggest you take the dog out until you've calmed down?" Again, much snorting but no serious push back.

About thirty mins later, she commented that I was walking down the stairs too quickly and clearly putting DD in danger. Trying to retain my composure, I managed a repost of "this is absolutely non-negotiable: one more criticism of my parenting, implied or direct, will mean we ask you to leave. There is hotel five mins up the road. They have spare rooms. I've checked. I'm going to the kitchen now, you can join us when you are ready to be polite."

I was absolutely bricking myself at this point, bracing for an eruption, but actually she just snorted a bit more and mumbled her way to the kitchen table.

Once DD was in bed, AM was relatively ok, a bit subdued but actually seemed to enjoy dinner without bitching at anyone.

They left earlier than expected this morning but frankly that was a relief!

I have no idea how that is all going to get played back to the rest of the family but sod it! DF spent some quality time with DD and for once it wasn't me licking my wounds and feeling generally confused and angry.

I thoroughly expect some repercussions over the next few days but I am feeling much stronger. DH said he was actually quite scared of me at one point as apparently my voice went very quiet and steely!

Thank you so much to everyone for your advice and support, I really couldn't have done it without you.

We are all so much better than these rubbish parents have treated us. I wish us all freedom from their crap,

Xxxx

Wow, I think you played that perfectly. I only wish I could do the same with my mother.

Well done, can't say more than that.

Being a bit scary works wonders.

Well done you! My dm is now deceased, but exhibited a lot of these type of behaviours. I realised after she had died that she had been jealous of me and saw my different path in life (higher education, career, wohm) as a criticism of her own life and choices.

I didn't have MN to turn to, and you've had great advice. I'm sure things will keep improving because of how you've handled this.

You are fabulous! Well done you . Particularly as you were civil and polite and didn't allow yourself to be put in the wrong by yelling at her. Who cares how it plays back to the rest of the family - you did absolutely the right thing and hopefully she will now realise that if she treats you like dirt she will be called on it every single time.

Wow! Good for you and well done for keeping going even though you were, as you say, 'bricking it' I wish I had your guts x

I have a very similar mother. I am finally standing up to her although finding it really hard. She is being particularly awful at the moment for various reasons and each time she says something nasty I try to say 'Why did you feel the need to say that?' She will either say 'oh don't be silly, I didn't mean it', to which i reply 'but why did you say it then?' to which she invariably says 'oh, you're so sensitive'. If she's not feeing like answering, she will just cry. I am really struggling but cannot quite bring myself to stop contact. I wish I could.

Well done for being able to stand up to your mother even though you were likely bricking it inside.

As for your DF, well I would not let him off the hook entirely here. Such women like your awful mother always but always need a willing enabler or bystander to assist them. I note he presumably said nothing, from what you write he certainly did not take her to task.

Well done, Gin! What fabulously measured and calm retorts! Like others, only wish I had the balls and the opportunity to do likewise. Shall adopt your AM acronym, if I may, whenever I refer to --the
Vicious One-- dm, takes the sting away a little to label her!