All the recovered people-pleasers out their..any tips?

[karelomen]

I have recently been working on not being so concerned about what people think of me and trying to be more true to my own needs and wishes rather than bend over backwards for those of others, (usually to the point of being unhappy), its such an undesirable aspect to my personality because I only do it to make people like me.
Ive started by being more assertive and Im getting great results from my employer and DP.
Has anyone got any experience of ridding this behaviour from their lives?

Liz did you realise you added a 'but' into the phrase? . It was left out for a reason! Maybe try to ban it for now as it can give some people the impression what you said is up for negotiation. Once you get used to feeling you don't have to justify yourself you can ease up a bit

Lovespeace. It's ok not to reply. You can see some are twats, do not engage. Ignore. This will cut down the twat ratio you are getting considerably, just by this one decision.

Someone told me once "just because someone throws you a ball, you don't have to catch it". It was meant to be about thinking I had to take responsibility/engage/respond. It applies to so many situations.

Wrt to interpersonal situations - my first reaction is still to be NICE dammit, although to my credit the Wise Voice is a lot clearer these days - I find it helpful to imagine my boundaries as visible things (they look like the Wall Of China before it eroded ) and my options as doors. Somebody pesters me, I close the door. Hah!

oooh helen, that was unintentional but you're right when i read them back the but i added in lends weight to her view and takes away from the 'i'm happy with my choice'. thanks for spotting that i did that. this is INgrained clearly. fighting it hard!

Garlic your post just reminded me. It took me years to realise I didn't have to give an answer right away.

"I'll let you know later..." "Maybe, l'll think about it" "Let me see if I can be arsed check my diary" and so on.

I think you have to let go of the notion that saying no isn't "nice." Being "nice" doesn't mean giving everyone everything they want all the time. A parent who kowtows to their child and gives them everything they want isn't nice, they're incompetent and they're wrongly teaching the child that the world owes them. Letting a friend walk all over you isn't nice, it's dangerous and ultimately very irritating for the friend. You can be assertive and forthright and still be nice. I think people pleasers see the "I speak my mind" clan as the pinnacle of not being a people pleaser. The "I speak my mind" clan are the opposite extreme of the pps - they are deliberately bolshy and see any ask for a favour or step over boundaries as a breach of their unrealistic boundaries. They can be rude and use the "I tell it like it is" bullshit as their excuse. They are not the ideal. They are just defensive and closed off as people pleasers but instead of giving away everything they give away nothing and end up alienating people.

What you are aiming for is a balance between the two extremes - pleasing people when you genuinely want to and speaking your mind without being rude when it's called for. I think most people struggle to reach that balance but the best way to approximate it is to be sure of your own views and boundaries, ensure they are realistic, be forgiving of people to a certain extent and to develop confidence in yourself. Easier said than done, but doable and worth it.

helen I've seen the not catching the ball thing somewhere else on here, it is excellent advice.

You're right, Helen, I just seem to be surrounded by people who sort of stand in front of you demanding an answer ... quite possibly a skewed perception of mine but I can't work on everything at once! "No" buys me some head space. I will arrive at an easy, negotiable stance: once my Wise Voice gains precedence

Cailin, the weird thing is that chronic pleasers feel like they're being one of the bolshy crew when merely being reasonable! Despite being the world's biggest advocate of assertiveness training, I still have to think "Put ME first!" in order to stand in the middle, as it were. Being able to see other people's point of view is a strength, but not when you see theirs in preference to your own. However wrong it sounds to advise selfishness, it is actually useful to the submissive pleaser..

garlic you are very wise

I was never ever a people pleaser, I just always did anything, had my own opinion.
I am now trying to become less argumentative without losing the ability to be assertive but it's really hard.
Last week my dh and I had a terrible row and it left him wanting to leave. This really scared me and I thought well, I have to stop being so contrary.
I have been virtually agreeing with everything he wants to do to keep the peace as if I disagree I can see him generalising that it's going to end up in an argument.
I want us to be able to have healthy honest discussions without being accused of being angry or argumentative but he always sees differences as rows yet defends his right to have n opinion.
So I am now very confused. I do not want to be a non peron who had no opinions, I'm sure he would be bored by that. But I do not want my opinions tobecome arguments.
I don't want to be a people pleaser or a people ? Any thoughts?

Calin is wise. Sometimes I think I fall into the defensive catergory, starting with "but"

Liz, my knowledge of "but" comes from saying it myself

category

Ginga, your question is more complicated than it seemed at first glance.

The straightforward answer is "assertiveness training". Assertiveness improves things for the pugnacious as well as for the passive. The complexities arise because you only seem to have discovered this problem as a result of you husband's reaction. It is neither assertive nor rational to treat every disagreement with one's own opinion as an attack. Assertiveness can help you handle your interactions with someone who does it, but can't change the other person's insistence on 'winning'.

Offering what I hope is an obvious hint: have you taken care to acknowledge his viewpoint before disagreeing? Feeling unheard or invalidated can make people defensive. Also, I am sure you avoid using personal attacks instead of arguments ...

If it doesn't boil down to a small matter of respectful communication, you might be needing your own thread.

Oh, I've just seen you on the grumpy H thread, Ginga!

Yes ... It's not you. It's him. :(

Hi garlic nutty. Yes I do need my own thread by now!

This is such a good thread. I am a people pleaser. I think it is a bit like an addiction & you are always one, you just try to get better at managing it. I've had counselling & I am alot better than I used to be, but my default setting is to please. I'm another one, where the worse I'm treated the harder I work to please - which is so bloody stupid.

I have found the "deferral" tactic - so not giving an answer immediately - "must check my diary", "can I come back to you" works really well. I also find "mmmm" works well, when I don't want to commit one way or the other. As you can tell, I still really struggle with the word "No".

My two biggest problems, are with my mother & ex-H. I tend to avoid any kind of dodgy subject with my mother & don't tell her half the things going on in my life, so I don't have to deal with her opinions. I still haven't managed to tell her that I'm not a Catholic anymore & even made the poor DCs take their first holy communion to keep her happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ex-H is a nightmare (my counsellor told me I was attracted to him because he is like my mother - which is an awful thought). He is a manipulative bully. We've been divorced for 7 years & I'm very direct with him now - but as a result our relationship is dreadful & everything is a battle, which is very, very wearing.

So, I keep looking for good tips. I've got the Being a Bitch book, which is good - but doesn't really give any guidance on how to try and improve relationships which are already dreadful & you are stuck with.
If there are any other books, about being assertive or not pleasing - I'd welcome the names.

try and improve relationships which are already dreadful & you are stuck with.

How stuck? Normal people respond well to assertiveness. Abusers don't.

Helpful books:
When I say No, I feel Guilty;
Assertiveness Step By Step.

Exactly, garlicnutty - I'm stuck with two emotional abusers. I am assertive now with ex-H and it just means that everything is a battle.

I do everything I can to avoid confrontation with my mother, because as a single mum I don't want to be even more isolated by losing all contact with my family. I manage my mother reasonably well, but only by a huge compromise on my behalf.

I sometimes worry that I am passing on my "pleasing" behaviours to my kids & they are already complicit in certain deceptions - for example being evasive about church attendance.

My next dilema is half-term. I work full-time, so I need help with childcare. For the last 7 years my DCs have gone to my parents for autumn half-term. They've always enjoyed it, although they are finding time with my parents increasingly boring as time goes on. My parents are quite old & not ones for "spoiling" their grandchildren, so my DCs spend alot of time just bumbling around in their house. Nothing wrong with that of course, but then ex-H's parents have suddenly decided to take an interest (after 8 flipping years) and have promised the DCs that if they stay with them at half-term, they can go swimming every day, to the zoo, to the local theme park etc etc.
You can imagine what the DCs want to do! I feel like a rabbit in the headlights wanting to please everyone and yet know that somehow, I'll end up pissing everyone off.

postbellum are you me?

Manipulative bullying ex- check
Passive agressive, maipulative mother - check

I think what you are asking about improving relationships with these people cant happen....they dont want it to happen and you cant change them.

Oh, just seen your book recommendations. Heading off to Amazon right now! As you'll see from my post above, I need them for my half-term dilemma. Thank you.

Wishing you all good luck with your assertiveness programme, PBB.

I think porridge hits the nail on the head, in that you can't get an abusive person to negotiate rationally because it goes against everything they stand for (ie, their control over you). You can, however, make yourself immune to their shenanigans with a bit of practice. When you give up trying to please them, it's easier to stick to your guns & be immovable. Dryden (second book) is good on this iirc.

Just bought if off ebay for £2.94. Really looking forward to reading it. Thank you.

Yup, another former people pleaser here! I was always desperate for people to like me, to the point where I would agree with anything other people said and do anything they asked, however unreasonable.

I had CBT a couple of years ago and it's really helped. I would say that I have lost a few friends along the way, and I think on reflection those friends were out for what they could get anyway. One person stopped talking to me totally as I stopped being able to look after her son at the drop of a hat. I totally agree with those that say that people pleasers are irritating. I've always thought the same, ironically even when I was a people pleaser!

My main thing was veering between being 'people pleasing' and being verbally aggressive/angry but with no middle ground. It's been hard but I've worked a lot at using the assertive/adult behaviour as much as possible, and keeping calm.

I am now finding that saying no to people does come more naturally. At first I used to use the "I'll just check my diary" tack but now I tend to be able to think on my feet more and it's a case of "I can't do that this time, hope you get it sorted though". I also find that I am now naturally more persistant with people. If someone is a bit 'off' with me I ask them why. If someone does something that upsets me, I tell them. Not all the time but I'm getting there!

I'm not sure I want to be liked, particularly. I want to be perfect. I want to be above reproach & criticism - because that means I can't be told off. I handle criticism well externally, but inside it messes with my self-esteem very badly. I take it all far too personally.
For a very functional human being, I sometimes think I'm very fucked up!

Brilliant thread.

Especially the point that you are handing your power over to other people, and that isn't really fair.

Looking forward to the advice given.