I have taken my wedding ring off.

[Ormiriathomimus]

Not about making him feel bad, not about revenge, just about simple facts. We promised to be faithful to each other when we got wed. When he told another woman he loved her he broke the promise. Our marriage ended. It's quite a releif TBH because i was having trouble reconciling the two facts:

1. He loves me, he wants to be with me, he is making huge efforts to make me feel loved, he is remorseful.
2. He loved her at the time and still does.

I am not going to make a song and dance about it - if anyone notices I will just say I lost it. If DH asks I will explain.

When he can honestly tell me that he can go a week or so without thinking of her, when he can see her at work and feel nothing but a faint wash of shame for what they did, when he doesn't care about her any more than any other colleague, then we will start a new marriage. Won't be married to a man who loves someone else.

That's what I meant that it is a big coincidence that the one text she apparently sent happened to be while orm was there.

The text didn't arrive when I was there.

I've got a simple 3 strand silver ring on my right hand that symbolises my dcs, I will keep that without a doubt. I took my wedding ring off before he took his off (he asked for the divorce and had an OW),he was a bit but if the marriage was over then it was an empty symbol for me.

I think this must represent a shift in you Orm and I hope that you end up very happy at the end of the process - whether you are with him or not!

What is your gut feeling, Orm? Do you think there's a possibility that he and the ow have gone underground, so to speak?

When did he last tell you that he still loves her? Does he give the appearance of a tortured soul or does he appear to be his usual miserable/cheerful self, as in the self he presented before your discovery?

I'm not sure it would change my mind orm, I know I am totally at a distance but he loves her, they still work together. Where can you go from there? He doesn't want to stop loving her or he'd be changing numbers, blocking her and trying to change his job wouldn't he? Telling you she's getting back in contact is at best hurtful and at worst deliberately manipulative because it puts your focus onto her and her "trying to get my husband".

I can't see what he had actually done to protect or prioritise you and you are putting so much of yourself into him. It makes me want to cry out.

izzy - my gut feeling is that he isn't seeing her. I have known him a long time and I think I have the 'truth' now. But he is missing her and he does care about her. He seems fairly happy a lot of the time - but he is distressed by my distress. Am I 100% sure he isn't seeing her and telling me big fat lies? No, our course not as I can't read minds. But I am sure as I can be.

He changed his number after the text.

Unless you want to continue with his polyamorous relationship he has to choose between you and make the decision to take action to stop loving one of you because I don't think either of you wants to tolerate the other. Do you even want someone who needs to have it made clear that you don't want them to love someone else and that within your marriage vows that isn't possible?

Orm...you know my feelings on this :)
But what I will say is that you are sounding stronger by the day (which I am sure will terrify him)
I completely understand your taking your wedding band off...it is an outward symbol of your marriage and the promises and broken.
take care x

They very fact he hasn't offered to change jobs speaks volumes to me....:(

Hi orm once again I have nothing useful to say but just want add my support. Personally I could not be with a man who said he loved someone else, he would not be worth the fight. But you feel differently and I hope truly that you can move forward and find a way to make your marriage work if that's what you want. x

I think you should explore what 'love' means to him, Orm.

How does the love he has for the ow compare to the love he felt for you in the early stages of your relationship and the love he feels for you now?

Is saying he loves her a way of convincing himself that his relationship with the ow has/had more meaning and more depth than that which it would appear to others such as his colleagues, i.e. the risible midlife crisis of a 50yo who falls head over heels for a woman young enough to be his daughter?

Did he convince himself he loved her to preserve his dignity? Is it a case of an old fool who knows he should know better using the 'L' word to spare his blushes?

The 'love' he has for the ow has not been put to the test of living with her day in/day out and had he lived with her, it may have been the case that his rosy specs would have dropped off and love would have flown through the window in a matter of days/weeks.

Whatever he may feel for her, I suspect it has little to do with love and far more to do with a man who suddenly realises his mortality and tries to turn back, or buy, time by means of a younger woman who transports him to a place where he can pretend he's in his 20's again, with the welcome bonus of having his ego pumped up in the process.

Maybe 'love', as in the abstract concept of what can be an all-encompassing or conditional emotion/feeling, can be a topic for you to discuss on your next 'date night'? It could be that exploring what 'love' means to you both will enable you to find some unexpected common ground on this endlessly fascinating to me subject.

izzy - I love the way you puncture the absurd pomposity and emotional hot air of all this I suspect you are right that the love he feels for her isn't the same as it is for me - when I found out the extent of his affair he couldn't reassure me enough that he wanted to be with me and cut contact with her. But yes. it's worth having a deeper talk about it.

It seems to that when caught out and their testicles have been placed in the press asked why they did it, a gentleman is inclined to say 'I loved her' subsequently amended to 'I thought I loved her' whereas a cad is likely to maintain throughout that the ow meant nothing to them, Orm.

Oh I sort of wish he had been a cad. Sounds so much more exciting than MLC man. A cad would have a raffish charm and an E-type. DH has battered charm and an old pushbike......

Give your dh's charm an additonal batterng from all of us, Orm - I can't think of more than a hundred a more worthy recipient of a good kicking

Meh, I think you'd be on dangerous ground with that guessing his love for her is lesser stuff! Talking about what love means to him is good i think but saying he loves her when he didn't would equally devalue when he said he loved orm, just as it created importance in his mind over his actions surrounding ow. Ultimately it is a man who doesn't understand love and doesn't take responsibility.

There are things that don't make sense to me still, like him being reactive and not proactive. Like him changing his number after some display he made about her contacting him but not blocking her or changing his work which doesn't actually make contact between them stop just makes the affair look like her fault. He had an affair with her and he lied and covered it up for months and in that time he blamed orm and the kids. His past history is behaving selfishly and blaming others. It wouldn't be unreasonable to think he had just shifted his blaming from orm onto ow, tactically.

I wasn't meaning he was a cad necessarily either. I just don't think he is a fool who had his head turned, I don't think they ever are.

TBH, I think you are clutching at straws.

If he really loved you, or that woman, he would have come clean from the beginning.

Have you re-read your thread? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1502040-Rumours-at-DHs-work

Removing a wedding band is a symbol, but it means nothing if you are maintaining a relationship with him, for all intents and purposes.

He hasn't done that much to distance himself from that woman. For all you know he's still having sex with her in toilets.

He will not admit to sex with her will he? Re-reading that thread would be a good idea. She was ending her marriage after doing a whine about her abusive partner, the rumours (which were true) got so bad he involved the head teacher to cover up his affair (risking his job) with his assistant (abusing position of authority and risking Job), they were seen having sex in the toilets by his friends who you even said wouldn't make things like that up and he said he loves her... He still loves her and he has taken no steps towards changing their relationship other than token efforts to reassure you. Maybe they aren't sleeping together anymore but I don't believe the job offer was made up, I think something changed to make her stay, what I can see out of the things you've written is that he loves her and you have found out - she is hanging on him leaving you.

I really think he is trying hard to look a bumbling idiot imprisoned by his terribly caring nature which caused him to overstep the line and he is terribly sorry but not sorry enough that watching you break yourself to fix your broken marriage is enough to make him be proactive about doing the same.

bumping to see if Orm is ok...

Thanks for asking. No' I'm not OK. We had a chat about the wedding ring on sunday night. He gets the point and yes, he was upset, but he is now treating me like a maiden aunt with nerves - very polite and gentle I think he's had enough of the distress and there really is no point in going over and over it - we have reached a sticking point and there is no getting past it. He won't leave, he won't resume his contact with her, but TBH this limbo is utterly dreadful. I feel worse than I have since I found out.

Oh Orm. I wish I could help you feel better. I wish I knew what to say, or had any useful advice to give. I just want to give you a big ((hug)).

I am really sorry, love

This is the consequences of his foolish actions. The dip after the original "high" and adrenaline rush of "fighting" for your relationship

The inevitable crash is often the thing that brings it all to an end, unless he can find a way to make you feel he stayed because he couldn't imagine life without you. Not that it was simply easier to stay.